Man needing a saviour???

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nice find, didn't even know prophet Musa spoke to prophet Adam, prophet Musa straight forward as usual :D

All I would say is everything happens by Allahs will, it might have been His will for things to plan out this way
Thanks Aadil77.

One other strange thing that I found is the account in Surah 18:80 of a boy that was put to death for a crime that he had not yet committed. According to God's infallible foreknowledge it was determined that he would commit the crime in the future, given the chance. Now here we see God's foreknowledge coming into play, but the free will of the boy does not enter the picture. He was never given the opportunity to choose what he would do. This is one reason why I see God's foreordination as ruling out any genuine free will on the part of men.
 
Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, number 601 says: "the Prophet added, 'I then return for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him me the same as he 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request): and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted .' I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.' Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of Hell (Fire) whoever said: 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.'''



See:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...rces/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/093.sbt.html


This narrative doesn't say that those who were taken out of Hell contributed to Mohammed's good deeds. The only criteria here is that Mohammed pleads for them.

Perhaps the Hadith is explaining that the way to avoid hellfire is to worship only Allaah(swt). Bukhari is quoting what Muhammad(PBUH) said. Look a bit closer at the words.



I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.

Muhammad's intercession is his teaching us to worship Allaah(swt) alone.
 
Consider another hadith:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...rces/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/077.sbt.html

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611 says:

"Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses".


If Adam exercised free will and sinned, how could he then successfully excuse himself and argue that he was not to blame since Allah had given him that fate?

Most likely because he was highly embarrassed of what he had done!

This sounds more like light hearted banter between two prophets to me, as in an argument between two brothers. The fact that two of those beloved to Allah were arguing, then this was most likely light hearted in nature.

Embarrassment of what immediately resulted from the sin certainly did ensue:

"Then Satan whispered to them that he might manifest unto them that which was hidden from them of their shame, and he said: Your Lord forbade you from this tree only lest ye should become angels or become of the immortals. And he swore unto them (saying): Lo! I am a sincere adviser unto you. Thus did he lead them on with guile. And when they tasted of the tree their shame was manifest to them and they began to hide (by heaping) on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called them, (saying): Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you: Lo! Satan is an open enemy to you? They said: Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If thou forgive us not and have not mercy on us, surely we are of the lost!" (Qur'an 7:20-23)

So there is no reason he wouldn't be embarrassed of the sin itself, and thus lightheartedly blame God when another beloved of God reminded him of it. And Allah knows best.

One other strange thing that I found is the account in Surah 18:80 of a boy that was put to death for a crime that he had not yet committed. According to God's infallible foreknowledge it was determined that he would commit the crime in the future, given the chance. Now here we see God's foreknowledge coming into play, but the free will of the boy does not enter the picture. He was never given the opportunity to choose what he would do. This is one reason why I see God's foreordination as ruling out any genuine free will on the part of men.

As I have already explained in a few posts now, Allah, the All Knowing, knew what choice he would make with the free will he had been given.

Kindly note- The blessed month of Ramadan is almost upon us, and this will be my last post in this thread for the duration of the month at least. I suspect you may come back with another hadeeth or refutation from the page on the answering-islam website. If you do choose to do so, just be aware that I shall not be responding for the next month at least. This is a month of mercy and blessings, and I wish to make the most of it.

Peace.
 
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Kindly note- The blessed month of Ramadan is almost upon us, and this will be my last post in this thread for the duration of the month at least. I suspect you may come back with another hadeeth or refutation from the page on the answering-islam website. If you do choose to do so, just be aware that I shall not be responding for the next month at least. This is a month of mercy and blessings, and I wish to make the most of it.

Peace.
Kindly noted. Thanks for all your posts. I wish you a restful month and look forward to future discussions with you in the days ahead after Ramadam :D.

Peace.
 
Thanks Aadil77.

One other strange thing that I found is the account in Surah 18:80 of a boy that was put to death for a crime that he had not yet committed. According to God's infallible foreknowledge it was determined that he would commit the crime in the future, given the chance. Now here we see God's foreknowledge coming into play, but the free will of the boy does not enter the picture. He was never given the opportunity to choose what he would do. This is one reason why I see God's foreordination as ruling out any genuine free will on the part of men.

How do you know that the boy had not yet committed any crime??

Another thing is that we are all put in specific cricumstances that are destined for us however we have the choice how to act upon these tests that we are already put in. The choice we make is the will we have.

Here I would also like to ask you how there is free will and determinism works in christianity?
 
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I doubt very much any of those ahadith are true or quoted in totality or contextually, one I have noticed comes from the now hijacked Islamic site which turned into some and I quote:
''Muslim-Jewish Engagement''

in which of course they are free to add/subtract/ twist at whim and the other is from this pathetic and utterly laughable christian desperation site..
previously he'd quoted a hadith about the prophet PBUH drinking wine which I have totally debunked, the same can be done with the rest!

:w:
 
Thanks Aadil77.

One other strange thing that I found is the account in Surah 18:80 of a boy that was put to death for a crime that he had not yet committed. According to God's infallible foreknowledge it was determined that he would commit the crime in the future, given the chance. Now here we see God's foreknowledge coming into play, but the free will of the boy does not enter the picture. He was never given the opportunity to choose what he would do. This is one reason why I see God's foreordination as ruling out any genuine free will on the part of men.

This freewill/predestination topic is quite complex - I try not to dwell over it too much, All I can say is that we have to go along with whatever Allah wills

Allah created Hell for the sole purpose of punishing people, there are always some people who are meant to end up in Hell and others in heaven - that is Allah's will
 
Thanks Aadil77.

One other strange thing that I found is the account in Surah 18:80 of a boy that was put to death for a crime that he had not yet committed. According to God's infallible foreknowledge it was determined that he would commit the crime in the future, given the chance. Now here we see God's foreknowledge coming into play, but the free will of the boy does not enter the picture. He was never given the opportunity to choose what he would do. This is one reason why I see God's foreordination as ruling out any genuine free will on the part of men.

:sl:

you have to read the Qur'an with understanding. the boy was gong to be such a rebel that [and this translation doesn't serve the purpose well]:

[18.80] And as for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should make disobedience and ingratitude to come upon them:
[18.81] So we desired that their Lord might give them in his place one better than him in purity and nearer to having compassion.

his parents would have left the Din. Allah removed him in order to save the parents, which may have also by default saved him. that is one of the reason we refer to Allah as the MOST Beneficent, the MOST Merciful.

it is better to try and understand Tawheed and Islam before trying to guess at what certain Ayats of the Qur'an or Ahadeeth may mean.

:wa:
 
How do you know that the boy had not yet committed any crime??
Let's be fair. Moses is mystified as to why the boy is put to death and the only reason that he is given is that it is because the lad will make trouble for his parents in the future if he is allowed to live. This is explained quite explicitly. If the boy had already done something else deserving of death then this future problem was hardly worth mentioning.
Another thing is that we are all put in specific cricumstances that are destined for us however we have the choice how to act upon these tests that we are already put in. The choice we make is the will we have.

Here I would also like to ask you how there is free will and determinism works in christianity?
Christians who follow the ideas of Jean Calvin believe very much the same as what Muslims do on determinism. Speaking for myself, I believe that God does not foresee everything before it happens although God could choose to do so if he wanted.
 
Let's be fair. Moses is mystified as to why the boy is put to death and the only reason that he is given is that it is because the lad will make trouble for his parents in the future if he is allowed to live. This is explained quite explicitly. If the boy had already done something else deserving of death then this future problem was hardly worth mentioning.

Thats the whole point of the story - That Moses pbuh even being a prophet of God does not know everything. Have you even read the story do you even know the messege behind it? Thats not the only the thing that happens in the story two other things happen as well. How is it explicit? It just tells us that the boy would do terrible things in the future to his parents - how do we know that he didnt do anything in the past?

Christians who follow the ideas of Jean Calvin believe very much the same as what Muslims do on determinism. Speaking for myself, I believe that God does not foresee everything before it happens although God could choose to do so if he wanted.

and what is it that muslims believe on determinism? What about St Augustine and St Thomas Aqunies what do they believe?
 
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Let's be fair. Moses is mystified as to why the boy is put to death and the only reason that he is given is that it is because the lad will make trouble for his parents in the future if he is allowed to live. This is explained quite explicitly. If the boy had already done something else deserving of death then this future problem was hardly worth mentioning.

Christians who follow the ideas of Jean Calvin believe very much the same as what Muslims do on determinism. Speaking for myself, I believe that God does not foresee everything before it happens although God could choose to do so if he wanted.

Surah al-Kahf is quite lengthy. It can be confusing if you take a single ayyat in it out of context.

Here is a bit more of the Surah:

16 When you turn away from them and the things they worship other than Allah, get yourself to the cave: your Lord will shower his mercies on you and dispose of your affair towards comfort and ease.
17 you would have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the open space in the midst of the cave. Such are among the signs of Allah: he whom Allah guides is rightly guided; but he whom Allah leaves to stray, for him will you find no protector to lead him to the right way.
18 You would have deemed them awake, while they were asleep, and we turned them on their right and on their left sides: their dog stretching forth his two fore legs on the threshold: if you had come up on to them, you would have certainly turned back from them in flight, and would certainly have been filled with terror of them.
19 So we raised them up that they might question each other. One of them said, how long have you stayed? They said, we have stayed a day, or part of a day. They said, Allah knows best how long you have stayed here. Now send then one of you with this money of yours to the town: let him find out which is the best food and bring some to you, that you satisfy your hunger therewith: and let him behave with care and courtesy, and let him not inform anyone about you.
20 For if they should come upon you, they would stone you or force you to return to their cult, and in that case you would never attain prosperity.

21 Thus did we make their case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the hour of judgment. Behold, they disputed among themselves as to their affair and said, construct a building over them: their Lord knows best about them: those who prevailed over their affair said, let us surely build a place of worship over them.
22 Some say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them. Others say they were five, the dog being the sixth, doubtfully guessing at the unknown. Still others say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say: My Lord knows best their number; it is but few that know their real case. Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about the sleepers.
23 Nor say of anything, I shall be sure to do so and so to morrow.
24 Without adding, Insha Allah, and call your Lord to mind when you forget, and say, I hope that my Lord will guide me ever closer than this to the right road.
25 So they stayed in their cave three hundred years and add nine.
26 Say: Allah knows best how long they stayed: with him is the secrets of the heavens and the earth: how clearly he sees, how finely he hears. They have no protector other than him; nor does he share his command with any person whatsoever.
27 And recite what has been revealed to you of Al-Kitab of your Lord. None can change his words, and none will you find as a refuge other than him.

28 And keep your soul content with those who call on their Lord morning and evening, seeking his face; and let not your eyes pass beyond them, seeking the pomp and glitter of this life; nor obey him whose heart we have permitted to neglect the remembrance of us, one who follows his own desires, whose case has gone beyond all bounds.
29 Say, the truth is from your Lord: let him who will, believe, and let him who will, reject it: for the wrongdoers we have prepared a fire whose smoke and flames, like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces. How dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
30 As to those who believe and work righteousness, truly we shall not suffer to perish the reward of any who do a righteous deed.
31 For them will be gardens of eternity; beneath them rivers will flow: they will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold, and they will wear green garments of fine silk and heavy brocade; they will recline therein on raised thrones. How good the reward! How beautiful a couch to recline on!
32 Set forth to them the parable of two men: for one of them we provided two gardens of grapevines and surrounded them with date palms; in between the two we placed corn fields.
33 Each of those gardens brought forth its produce, and failed not in the least therein: in the midst of them we caused a river to flow.
34 Abundant was the produce this man had: he said to his companion, in the course of a mutual argument: "More wealth have I than you, and more honour and power in my following of men."

35 He went into his garden in a state of mind unjust to his soul: he said, "I deem not that this will ever perish,
36 "Nor do I deem that the Hour will come: even if I am brought back to my Lord, I shall surely find something better in exchange.
37 His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Do you deny him who created you out of dust, then out of a sperm-drop, then fashioned you into a man?"
38 "But he is Allah, my Lord, and none shall I associate with my Lord.
39 "Why did you not, as you go into your garden, say: 'Allah's will be done! There is no power but with Allah! If you see me less than you in wealth and sons,
40 "It may be that my Lord will give me something better than your garden, and that he will send on your garden thunderbolts from heaven, making it slippery sand!
41 "Or the water of the garden will run off underground so that you will never be able to find it."
42 So his fruits were encompassed, and he remained twisting and turning his hands over what he had spent on his property, which had tumbled to pieces to its very foundations, and he could only say, "Woe is me! Would I had never ascribed partners to my Lord!"
43 Nor had he numbers to help him against Allah, nor was he able to deliver himself.
44 Protection comes from Allah, the true one. He is the best to reward, and the best to give success.
45 Set forth to them the comparison of the life of this world: it is like the rain which we send down from the skies: the earth's vegetation absorbs it, but soon it becomes dry stubble, which the winds do scatter: it is Allah who prevails over all things.

46 Wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world: but the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of your Lord, as rewards, and best as hopes.
47 One day we shall remove the mountains, and you will see the earth as a level stretch, and we shall gather them, all together, nor shall we leave out anyone of them.
48 And they will be marshalled before your Lord in ranks. "Now you have come to us as we created you first: yes, you thought we shall not fulfil the appointment made to you to meet us."
49 And the book will be placed, and you will see the sinful in great terror because of what is therein; they will say, Ah woe to us! What a book this is! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account of it. They will find all that they placed before them: and not one will your Lord treat with injustice.
50 Behold we said to the angels, bow down to Adam they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the command of his Lord. Will you than take him and his children as protectors rather than me? And they are enemies to you. Evil would be the exchange for the wrongdoers.
51 I called them not to witness the creation of heavens and the earth, nor their own creation: nor is it for me to make as helpers such as lead astray.
52 One day he will say, call on those whom you thought to be my partners, and they will call on them, but they will not listen to them; and we shall make for them a place of common perdition.
53 And the sinful shall see the fire and apprehend that they have to fall therein: no means will they find to turn away therefrom.

54 We have explained in detail in this Quran, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of comparison: but man is, in, most things, contentious.
55 And what is there to keep men from believing, now that guidance has come to them, nor from praying for forgiveness from their Lord, but that they ask that the ways of the ancients be repeated with them, or the wrath be brought to them face to face?
56 We only send the messengers to give glad tidings and to give warnings: but the unbelievers dispute with vain argument, in order therewith to weaken the truth, and they treat my signs as a jest, as also the fact that they are warned!
57 And who does more wrong than one who is reminded of the signs of his Lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the deeds which his hands have sent forth? Truly we have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness. If you call them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.
58 But your Lord is most forgiving, full of mercy. If he were to call them to account for what they have earned, then surely he would have hastened their punishment: but they have their appointed time, beyond which they will fined no refuge.
59 Such were the populations we destroyed when they committed iniquities; but we fixed an appointed time for their destruction.
60 Behold, Musa said to his attendant, I will not give up until I reach the junction of the two seas or until I spend years and years in travel.
61 But when they reached the junction, they forgot about their fish, which took its course through the sea as in a tunnel.

62 When they had passed on, Musa said to his attendant: bring us our early meal; truly we have suffered much fatigue at this stage of our journey.
63 He replied: "Did you see when we took ourselves to the rock? I did indeed forget about the fish: none but Satan made me forget to tell you about it: it took its course through the sea in a marvellous way!"
64 Musa said: that was what we were seeking after: so they went back on their footsteps, following the path they had come.
65 So they found one of our servants, on whom we had bestowed mercy from ourselves and whom we had taught knowledge from our own.
66 Musa said to him: may I follow you, on the footing that you teach me something of the truth which you have been taught?
67 The other said: truly you will not be able to have patience with me.
68 And how can you have patience about things about which your understanding is not complete?
69 Musa said: you will find me, if Allah so will, patient: nor shall I disobey you in anything.
70 The other said: if then you would follow me, ask me no questions about anything until I myself speak to you concerning it.
71 So they both proceeded: until, when they were in the boat, he scuttled it. Said Musa: have you scuttled it in order to drown those in it? Truly a strange thing have you done.
72 He answered: did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?
73 Musa said: rebuke me not for forgetting, nor grieve me by raising difficulties in my case.
74 Then they proceeded: until, when they met a young man, he slew him. Musa said: have you slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul thing have you done.

75 He answered: did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?
76 Musa said: if ever I ask you about anything after this, keep me not in your company: then would you have been excused from my side.
77 Then they proceeded: until, when they came to the inhabitants of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused them hospitality. They found there a wall on the point of falling down, but he set it up straight. Musa said: if you had wished, surely you could have exacted some reward for it.
78 He answered: this is the parting between me and you: now will I tell you the interpretation of those things over which you were unable to hold patience.
79 As for the boat, it belonged to certain men in dire want: they plied on the water: I but wished to render it unserviceable, for there was after them a certain king who seized on every boat by force.
80 As for the youth, his parents were people of faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude.
81 So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange a son better in purity and closer in affection.
82 As for the wall, it belonged to two youths, orphans, in the town; there was, beneath it, a buried treasure, to which they were entitled; their father had been a righteous man: so your Lord desired that they should attain their age of full strength and get out their treasure a mercy from your Lord. I did it not of my own accord. Such is the interpretation of those things over which you were unable to hold patience.
83 They ask you concerning Zul Qarnain. Say, I will rehearse to you something of his story.

Who killed the boy?

Why did they kill him?

How is this predestination?

Was it not the free will of those who killed him, to kill him? You may question the reason they were justified in doing so, but that is a separate topic than one of predestination.
 
:sl:

Hiroshi, why do assume something bad happened to the boy? IF Allah removed him from the Dunya BEFORE he became a non-believer/criminal, then he STILL has a chance at Paradise!

WHAT free will is involved here?

THE PARENTS! they CHOSE to worship non but Allah and Allah rewarded them by protecting them from the 1st child [and MAYBE thereby saving said child] and rewarded them with a more fruitful child. Allahu Akbar!

here's a GREAT video on Qadr, by Abdullah ibn Farsi [right click on the link ans "save as"]:

http://www.qsep.com/EemanDVD/PredestinationDVD.htm

:wa:
 
and what is it that muslims believe on determinism?
I thought about that after I wrote my reply. The man, Dr Ahmad Shafaat, whose article appears in the link below, seems to have quite extreme views where man has no free will at all:

http://www.islamicperspectives.com/IslamAndDeterminism1.htm

But most Muslims that I have spoken to say that man does have free will, although God has perfect foreknowledge of what man will do at all times.

And some Muslims believe that the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.

What about St Augustine and St Thomas Aqunies what do they believe?
Don't know. Do you want to tell me?
 
I thought about that after I wrote my reply. The man, Dr Ahmad Shafaat, whose article appears in the link below, seems to have quite extreme views where man has no free will at all:

http://www.islamicperspectives.com/I...terminism1.htm

But most Muslims that I have spoken to say that man does have free will, although God has perfect foreknowledge of what man will do at all times.

And some Muslims believe that the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.

I believe all muslims would agree that we do have will and certian things are determined as well.

What about St Augustine and St Thomas Aqunies what do they believe?

It would be a good idea to check there views out and see that christainty itself does not have an agreement on this issue at all. - So I'm not sure what your trying to get at here?
 
I thought about that after I wrote my reply. The man, Dr Ahmad Shafaat, whose article appears in the link below, seems to have quite extreme views where man has no free will at all:

http://www.islamicperspectives.com/IslamAndDeterminism1.htm

But most Muslims that I have spoken to say that man does have free will, although God has perfect foreknowledge of what man will do at all times.

And some Muslims believe that the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.


Don't know. Do you want to tell me?

Predestination and Free will have long been a source of contention among all who believe in God(swt) it is difficult to separate all knowing from predestination. Many of the Early Protestant denominations were strong adherents of predestination most notably the Puritans, Calvinists and early Presbyterians and I believe also the Congregationalists. It also seems to play a considerable role in the Catholic concept of "Divine Providence"

The only choice that makes sense is to have in Faith in Allaah(swt) and believe him when he told us we have free will and will be judged fairly.

I don't know how it works that Allaah(swt) can know what I will do or say; and for it to be my own free will. But, why do I need to understand? I am very comfortable in my ability to exercise free will and I believe Allaah(swt) is all knowing, why should I complicate things with philosophical mind experiments?
 
Before we close this section for Ramadan I just want to ask Heroshi a few questions to think over before we reopen.

In at least one of your posts you stated you are not Trinitarian and do not believe Jesus(as) is God(swt) But you do believe Jesus(as) died on the cross in atonement for Mankind's sins.

Now did Jesus(as) know he was going to die ?

Was it by his choice he died?

If not did he have any free will about being born to die as a sacrifice?
 
Before we close this section for Ramadan I just want to ask Heroshi a few questions to think over before we reopen.

In at least one of your posts you stated you are not Trinitarian and do not believe Jesus(as) is God(swt) But you do believe Jesus(as) died on the cross in atonement for Mankind's sins.

Now did Jesus(as) know he was going to die ?

Was it by his choice he died?

If not did he have any free will about being born to die as a sacrifice?
Hi Woodrow. Nice to be back.

I believe that Jesus died and was resurrected. Doesn't Surah 19:33 say this? But I do not believe that Jesus died on a cross. The original language words in the Greek scriptures: "stauros" and "xylon" both mean a single upright stake; not two beams at right angles. The cross symbol adopted by the church, and treated as an object of worship by many, seems to be of pagan origin.

But yes, I believe that Jesus died as atonement for our sins. Jesus knew that he was born to die and accepted that of his own free will with perfect obedience. I believe very strongly that God cannot die. Ever. So then if Jesus died once then he cannot be God (Romans 6:9).
 
Hi Woodrow. Nice to be back.

I believe that Jesus died and was resurrected. Doesn't Surah 19:33 say this? But I do not believe that Jesus died on a cross. The original language words in the Greek scriptures: "stauros" and "xylon" both mean a single upright stake; not two beams at right angles. The cross symbol adopted by the church, and treated as an object of worship by many, seems to be of pagan origin.

But yes, I believe that Jesus died as atonement for our sins. Jesus knew that he was born to die and accepted that of his own free will with perfect obedience. I believe very strongly that God cannot die. Ever. So then if Jesus died once then he cannot be God (Romans 6:9).

We believe Allaah(swt) lifted Jesus(a.s.) up to heaven and He has yet to die. This is why it is essential for him to return to earth and complete his life and die as all Humans must. Surah 19 Ayyat 33 reads: "[19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected." It does not say say Jesus died and was resurrected, but that he will as will all humans. He has yet to die read Surah 4::

156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;

159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-


Jesus has yet to die and was not, nor ever will be a sacrifice for man's sins. After he does die and is resurrected he will be a witness against those who worship him as a Savior and Sacrifice.
 
I believe that Jesus died and was resurrected. Doesn't Surah 19:33 say this? .

Surah 19:33 says that jesus pbuh was born a peaceful birth, will die a peaceful death and will be raised (during judgement day) a peaceful resurrection.

Interesting how you seem to have penchant of picking up one ayah here and there to make your assumption while disregarding the context and completely disregarding other ayahs about the profile (in this case jesus pbuh, who is mentioned in many ayahs explaining in details how he was rescued by Allah SWT and raised alive to heaven and will be returned to earth and will die a peaceful death then).

Do you really believe that that dying on cross is a peaceful death?

This, again, proves that Qur'an is accurate and there is no contradiction.
 
We believe Allaah(swt) lifted Jesus(a.s.) up to heaven and He has yet to die. This is why it is essential for him to return to earth and complete his life and die as all Humans must. Surah 19 Ayyat 33 reads: "[19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected." It does not say say Jesus died and was resurrected, but that he will as will all humans. He has yet to die read Surah 4::

156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;

159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-


Jesus has yet to die and was not, nor ever will be a sacrifice for man's sins. After he does die and is resurrected he will be a witness against those who worship him as a Savior and Sacrifice.
Rodwell's translation of the Qur'an says at Surah 3:55 "Remember when God said, ‘O Jesus! verily I will cause thee to die, and will take thee up to myself and deliver thee from those who believe not; and I will place those who follow thee above those who believe not, until the day of resurrection."

A footnote here reads: "Muhammad probably believed that God took the dead body of Jesus to Heaven — for three hours according to some — while the Jews crucified a man who resembled him. Sura iv. 156. The word motewaffika (comp. Sura xxxix. 156) means, in speaking of God, to cause to die, take to himself. It would also seem from Sura xix. 34, that Muhammad supposed Jesus to have died a natural death, though it is nowhere said how long he continued in that state. The Muhammadans believe that Jesus on his return to earth at the end of the world will slay the Antichrist, die, and be raised again. A vacant place is reserved for his body in the Prophet’s tomb at Medina. See Lieut. Burton’s ‘Pilgrimage,’ vol. ii."

See:
http://thriceholy.net/Texts/Rodwell_Koran.html


Does this mistranslate Surah 3:55 and is Rodwell's commentary on the Arabic word "motewaffika" totally wrong?
 

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