Many Christians are Converting to Islam

It's strange how christians can see the beauty of Islam but muslims need to be convinced....
 
Scimitar said:
@ Bro BurningLight - why do you think more and more Christians are turning to Islam in the west, than any other religion?

Why do you think Islam is fastest growing religion in the world, and the most practised one too?

Scimi
Click to expand...
IMO, There is a very, very power spiritual force behind Islam and most Christians are weak in their faith and don't know the Lord; Most are not rooted and grounded in the love of Christ. Islam is powerful, because it is fathered by the seed of Ishmael who was for the sake of Abraham promised blessing and power down through his bloodline. I believe Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael.
But one must never mistaken growth and power for the Love of Truth. Jesus who is the descendant of Isaac & Jacob the child of promise said; "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" He didn't say "I show the way" like all other prophets before Him or after. He came unto His own, but they rejected Him, but as many as receive Him to them gave He the power to become sons of God even to those that believe on His name. He is the only prophet in history that had & has the power to make us sons of God. He came for Israel, but He was & is meant for the world, because it is His-story. This is what the Scriptures speak of before Muhammad was born.
 
Last edited:
wow, u just reeled off a memorized drill,
none of it was based on a reasonable argument, just a statement with no backup,
may God guide you, i know you are a seeker, but the conditioning is almost mechanical,
peace
 
Abz2000 said:
wow, u just reeled off a memorized drill,
none of it was based on a reasonable argument, just a statement with no backup,
may God guide you, i know you are a seeker, but the conditioning is almost mechanical,
peace
Click to expand...
I am sorry, I don't follow if you're referring to me.
 
how many sons has God got in your opinion?
and which ones are "only begotten"?
and how (astaghfirullah) do you assume He begot?
and if He didn't beget and it's only metaphorical, why distinguish it from the others? (begotten wouldn't then mean begotten - then y say it?)
and if he's the "only begotten son", he must be different from the rest,
and he can't be eternal as begetting requires that one exists b4 the other,
unless one begets oneself - which would really mean anything.

51. O ye Messengers! enjoy (all) things good and pure, and work righteousness: for I am well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.
52. And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other).
53. But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: each party rejoices in that which is with itself.
54. But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time.
55. Do they think that because We have granted them abundance of wealth and sons,
56. We would hasten them on in every good? Nay, they do not understand.
57. Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58. Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59. Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60. And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61. It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.
Quran Chapter 23
 
Abz2000 said:
how many sons has God got in your opinion?
and which ones are "only begotten"?
and how (astaghfirullah) do you assume He begot?
and if He didn't beget and it's only metaphorical, why distinguish it from the others? (begotten wouldn't then mean begotten - then y say it?)
and if he's the "only begotten son", he must be different from the rest,
and he can't be eternal as begetting requires that one exists b4 the other,
unless one begets oneself - which would really mean anything.
Click to expand...
God is father of all His creation in the general sense, but in another sense He is not. for Satan has his children. so we are all God's creation but we are not all His children.

It is the father (God) that calls Jesus His "beloved Son" "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased hear ye Him" God didn't say "my begotten son" He said, "beloved Son." In other words, this speaks of the uniqueness of Christ's Sonship especially since he had no earthly father with the exception of Joseph who didn't beget Jesus, but God did through the Holy Spirit as a miraclous Immaculate Conception without the intervention of sexual intercourse. Adam was created without a mother but his father was God, but unlike Jesus who always existed as God's word. That is why Jesus is considerd the last Adam. The first Adam screwed things up for mankind, but the last Adam reconciles us to God.
 
So u admit that this is a lie written by men?

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate.

That was from the nicene creed.



Here's what the Quran tells us:



Can you then expect that they would believe in you, while decidedly a party of them used to hear the word of Allah, then they altered it after they had understood it, while they were knowing?
Quran 2:75
 
Abz2000 said:
So u admit that this is a lie written by men?
Click to expand...
I do admit that the Nicene Creed is not in the Bible. So, I don't have to accept it; do I? Jesus never said, "I am God" BUT, He does allude to His deity; so every person must decide what to do with Christ and come to there own conclusion of who He really is. The Bible says knowing Him is eternal life. AND Jesus said, "I am the life..." We are all free to make our choices, but we are not free from the consequences of them
 
can you ponder on this verse for a while?
you may really want to take some time out just to think about it.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him,
Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18And Jesus said unto him,
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 10:17-18

what is Jesus (pbuh) saying here?
Is he not first attributing all good qualities to God,
and then making a clear distinction between himself and God?

and here, the bible records that he returns to give just ONE urgent message, nothing else.
16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
John 20:16-18

what is the significance of this?
why return just to pass on this message?
was it not to clarify a misconception which he knew would occur after him?
notice how mine and yours is repeated TWICE.
 
Abz2000 said:
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him,
Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18And Jesus said unto him,
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 10:17-18

what is Jesus (pbuh) saying here?
Is he not first attributing all good qualities to God,
and then making a clear distinction between himself and God?
Click to expand...
yes, He was attributing good to God, but that is not the purpose he said that. Jesus was speaking to the young rich ruler rhetorically. The young man knew Jesus was special, but by calling Jesus good he was inadvertanly calling Him God, because only God is good. Jesus was trying to get him to realize what he was actually saying. Jesus was by no means denying He was good. Jesus wanted people to realize who He was without telling them. Jesus asked His apostles "Who do they say I am"; then, Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?" Peter said, "You are the Christ the son of the living God" Jesus blessed Peter saying "God showed you that from heaven." If the young rich ruler had said "but you are good; good master you have come down from heaven" Jesus would have blessed him like He did Peter. You err in your understanding of Scripture.

Abz2000 said:
and here, the bible records that he returns to give just ONE urgent message, nothing else.
16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
John 20:16-18
what is the significance of this?
Click to expand...
Jesus was telling her not to get used to Him staying; that is what He meant by don't touch me
Abz2000 said:
why return just to pass on this message?
was it not to clarify a misconception which he knew would occur after him?
notice how mine and yours is repeated TWICE. Like
Click to expand...
Jesus calls God father. If he calls God father what does that make Him? If you search the Scriptures you will see that God the father not only calls Jesus His "Beloved Son" He also calls Him "God." From the Bible you'll never be able to argue and win that Jesus is not the Son of God; hence, He is deity! Notice that I didn't say partner or associate those terms do not exists in the Bible; It is an Islamic invention as pertains to Christanity and faulty for we the people of the Book know that God is one!
 
Last edited:
Check how many times "son of man" is repeated throughout the book and you will come to see that He would use it to lovingly refer to the sons of Adam (pbuh).
God is not man
also check how many times the word son of God is used to refer to the prophets of the OT,
peace,
g'night
 
Abz2000 said:
Check how many times "son of man" is repeated throughout the book and you will come to see that He would use it to lovingly refer to the sons of Adam (pbuh).
God is not man
also check how many times the word son of God is used to refer to the prophets of the OT,
peace,
g'night
Click to expand...
One thing the Catholics say I agree with. Jesus is true man from true man and true God from true God. I listen the Bart Ehrman debate; it seems to me that Dr. Evans pawned him. Ehrman states: "And here is the truth: Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle — Peter, Paul or James — knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery."

This begs the question: “here is the truth.” I’m sorry, but extreme assertions like these require extreme evidence as proof that they are true. Yet Ehrman does not even try to offer any evidence let alone conclusive evidence. He simply states his position as “the truth.” Again, you cannot assume to be true the thing which you need to prove first. Fallacy. Lie.

Second, Ehrman expects us believe he has gotten inside the minds of the New Testament authors. He says they were conscious frauds, “knowing full well” what they did. But how in the world does Ehrman (or anyone else for that matter) have any idea what the New Testament authors knew in their minds? Again this is begging the question—and in a big way. It is a big lie. Ehrman strikes me as an atheistist Bible hack. If he attempts to butcher the Bible like that, what do you think he would do to the Quran? Like Dr. Evans said to put our faith in Jesus Christ is a sure foundation even though there are interpolations and translational errors it doesn't change the central theme of Scripture Jesus saves our souls.

Don't think that these scholars can't pick apart the Quran the way they do the Bible. It comes to down to those that believe God exists and those that don't, and what we believe about God. Ehrman can shake hands with Dawkins the Atheist.
 
Last edited:
Burninglight said:
One thing the Catholics say I agree with. Jesus is true man from true man and true God from true God. I listen the Bart Ehrman debate; it seems to me that Dr. Evans pawned him. Ehrman states: "And here is the truth: Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle — Peter, Paul or James — knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery."

This begs the question: “here is the truth.” I’m sorry, but extreme assertions like these require extreme evidence as proof that they are true. Yet Ehrman does not even try to offer any evidence let alone conclusive evidence. He simply states his position as “the truth.” Again, you cannot assume to be true the thing which you need to prove first. Fallacy. Lie.

Second, Ehrman expects us believe he has gotten inside the minds of the New Testament authors. He says they were conscious frauds, “knowing full well” what they did. But how in the world does Ehrman (or anyone else for that matter) have any idea what the New Testament authors knew in their minds? Again this is begging the question—and in a big way. It is a big lie. Ehrman strikes me as an atheistist Bible hack. If he attempts to butcher the Bible like that, what do you think he would do to the Quran? Like Dr. Evans said to put our faith in Jesus Christ is a sure foundation even though there are interpolations and translational errors it doesn't change the central theme of Scripture Jesus saves our souls.

Don't think that these scholars can't pick apart the Quran the way they do the Bible. It comes to down to those that believe God exists and those that don't, and what we believe about God. Ehrman can shake hands with Dawkins the Atheist.
Click to expand...
Didn't you copy and paste this entire post on a reply to me in another thread?^o)
 
Burninglight said:
God is father of all His creation in the general sense, but in another sense He is not. for Satan has his children. so we are all God's creation but we are not all His children.
Click to expand...
Please, explain in what sense Christians are 'children or sons of God'. That is a confusing doctrine to me.
God did through the Holy Spirit as a miraclous Immaculate Conception without the intervention of sexual intercourse.
Click to expand...
No, the Immaculate Conception is a Catholic doctrine regarding Mary being born without Original Sin.
Adam was created without a mother but his father was God, but unlike Jesus who always existed as God's word. That is why Jesus is considerd the last Adam. The first Adam screwed things up for mankind, but the last Adam reconciles us to God.
Click to expand...
God was not Adam's 'father', but rather his Creator in the same manner as He was for Jesus as in Quran 3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
 
Predator said:
LOL , i always visit that channel to have a good laugh. It looks more of a comedy channel

Here is another one about a pizza order
Click to expand...
Yea, I agree it is good for a laugh. Richard Burnish is a very talented comedian. If he is not an atheist, I wonder what religion he really is?
 
MustafaMc said:
God was not Adam's 'father', but rather his Creator in the same manner as He was for Jesus as in Quran 3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand Islam sees Adam and Jesus as God's creation. The Biblical sees Adam as God's creation as well, but when the Bible traces geneology, it traces it back as far as Adam making us all brothers and sisters of Adam, moreover, the Bible refers to Adam has son of God in the sense that all prophets and all people have a father. It shows Adam's father is God even though we all agree he was created by God without earthly mother or father.

As far as the last Adam (Yeshua/Jesus). Well the Bible doesn't depict Him as God's creation. Some Bible translations call Him the beginning of the creation of God. But what it is really saying is Jesus is the beginner of the beginning of creation. Hence, to call Jesus just a messenger is quite a demotion. When Jesus returns as we believe He will, Muslims feel Christians are in trouble for deifying Him and Christians believe that Jesus will not be pleased with those calling him "Son of Mary" and just a prophet no different than any other or even less significant then Muhammad.
 
Burninglight said:
Second, Ehrman expects us believe he has gotten inside the minds of the New Testament authors. He says they were conscious frauds, “knowing full well” what they did. But how in the world does Ehrman (or anyone else for that matter) have any idea what the New Testament authors knew in their minds?
Click to expand...

Oh. I see you are back! Welcome back brother. Now I have a question for you. Earlier you posted.
Jesus was trying to get him to realize what he was actually saying. Jesus was by no means denying He was good. Jesus wanted people to realize who He was without telling them.
Click to expand...

How in the world do you (or anyone else for that matter) have any idea what Jesus (pbuh) was thinking in his full mind when you weren't there? The Bible? No. The Bible doesn't even MEAN Gospel. It comes from the Greek word biblios which literally just means book. We don't know if anything that Jesus (pbuh) said in that Bible is the truth because it cannot be verified with the original and we KNOW it has been changed over the years. Even the parts about the resurrection were later additions to the book. Did you not look into the Codex Sinaiticus that I showed you which is the oldest known Bible in the world? How in the world, can you sit there and take the words of someone writing under a false name as Gospel truth and then accuse Ehrman of being a liar when this is a man who has studied these scriptures. Did you read the red letter Bible like I mentioned to you earlier? Did you read Ehrman's book "Forged" to even look into his research yourself?

"For somebody who has faith in the Bible, I can see why it might be threatening," Ehrman said. "But just because it's threatening doesn't mean it's not true."

And yes, Ehrman now went the agnostic route because he was tired of all of the tricks and lies that were brought to the world about salvation and the misery that exists in it. Why do you chose to ignore facts and continue to restate refuted lies? Why do you think you know better than Christian pastors and scholars and even scientists who saw modern day Christianity for what it is and choose not to accept the lies as truth? Yet when these brothers here have tried to show you, you accuse them of having a wrong interpretation. No, you do. You are going off of someone elses interpretation to make a puzzle fit together that never was.

I just want to know. What happened to you that you choose to ignore the facts? Many other Christians who come to this forum easily recognize those errors, and yes, they still have faith in God but after learning here their concept of how to worship God correctly changes. No need for this trinity, original sin, but worshipping one God without any partners and following the teachings of Jesus (pbuh). That is at least one step better for you than following the ideas of man-made dogmas that lead you off of the right path.

http://news.discovery.com/history/bible-new-testament-forgery-110518.html
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/19/6677671-is-the-bible-full-of-forgeries
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top