Many Christians are Converting to Islam

Hamza Asadullah said:
Originally Posted by Burninglight
Show me where I deny that the term "trinity" was created hundreds of years after Christ and I'll beome a Muslim.
Show me where i stated you denied it?

I am merely asking you how a fundamental concept of your faith which was NOT be included anywhere in the Bible nor was it ever even mentioned by God or Jesus be created hundreds of years after Christ?
Click to expand...
You didn't. So why do you keep throwing in my face that which I haven't said. IOW, I never said the word "trinity" was in the Bible. I believe in the Bible before Constantine's time. Does that help clarify things for anyone?
 
Abz2000 said:
Although virtually all positive writings on Arius' theology have been suppressed or destroyed,[3] negative writings describe Arius' theology as one in which there was a time before the Son of God, where only God the Father existed. Despite concerted opposition, 'Arian', or nontrinitarian Christian churches persisted throughout Europe and North Africa, in various Gothic and Germanic kingdoms, until suppressed by military conquest or voluntary royal conversion between the fifth and seventh centuries.
Click to expand...
Them be the Jehovah Witnesses; them ain't Christians to me
 
Burninglight said:
You didn't. So why do you keep throwing in my face that which I haven't said. IOW, I never said the word "trinity" was in the Bible. I believe in the Bible before Constantine's time. Does that help clarify things for anyone?
Click to expand...

So you don't believe in the trinity?
 
Hamza Asadullah said:
Yes that is why i asked because the majority of Christians do believe in the trinity.

You seem a bit on edge. Is everything ok?
Click to expand...
Thank you for asking; yes, friend everything is okay. I don't believe in using a term that is not mentioned in the Bible. I believe God is one and I believe all the Bible says about God.
 
Burninglight said:
Thank you for asking; yes, friend everything is okay. I don't believe in using a term that is not mentioned in the Bible. I believe God is one and I believe all the Bible says about God.
Click to expand...

Then why do you believe in the concept of God having 3 manifestations when it is nowhere in the words of God nor Jesus?
 
Hamza Asadullah said:
Then why do you believe in the concept of God having 3 manifestations when it is nowhere in the words of God nor Jesus?
Click to expand...
I don't understand the trinity, and I don't understand enough about God's essence to say He has had three manifestations or how to explain God's nature. God said in the Bible that Jesus (ISA) is His beloved son in whom He is well pleased and to listen to Him. I don't try to explain how that is possible and I don't understand how it is possible. I simply believe God as a child believes His or her parents. You should be able to respect this view of mine as being sincere as I do the Muslims view of Allah!
 
Burninglight said:
Show me where I deny that the term "trinity" was created hundreds of years after Christ and I'll beome a Muslim.
Click to expand...

In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom (To Autolycus II.15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian (On Pudicity 21). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:
Click to expand...

Catholic source:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

repeat after me:

la ilaha ilalla muhammadur rasulullah

there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah



:wa:
 
Burninglight said:
I don't understand the trinity, and I don't understand enough about God's essence to say He has had three manifestations or how to explain God's nature. God said in the Bible that Jesus (ISA) is His beloved son in whom He is well pleased and to listen to Him. I don't try to explain how that is possible and I don't understand how it is possible. I simply believe God as a child believes His or her parents. You should be able to respect this view of mine as being sincere as I do the Muslims view of Allah!
Click to expand...

You are not expected to understand something which is not true. Why should you force yourself to believe in such a concept which is not supported by the scriptures nor was it ever mentioned byANY prophet, God nor Jesus.

I have already showed you how many "sons" daughters and children God had and how you cannot take such a term literally. Jesus (as) worked tirelessly as did all the Prophets to established the oneness of God but the devil is always trying his best to cause man to do that which angers God the most - Ascribe partners unto him. Clearly Paul and many others were heavily influenced by Greek mythology and that is why such concepts as the trinity and God having more than one manifestation, blood atonement etc found its way into Christianity.

Watch the following amazing video by a Hebrew scholar who clearly shows that the Bible does NOT refer to Jesus as being divine like God but that of a Prophet. Even the Dideche confirms this. So if scholars confirm that Jesus was NEVER referred to as divine or as the son of God then who are you to believe otherwise?

The Bibles Buried Secrets Did God Have a Wife

 
Last edited:
YusufNoor said:
repeat after me:

la ilaha ilalla muhammadur rasulullah

there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
Click to expand...
There is God but God, but I cannot add the name of a messenger as pretains to my salvation. I would feel like I am associating some with God. I don't feel comfortable naming a non deity as part of my declaration as being someone who submits to God.
 
Burninglight said:
There is God but God, but I cannot add the name of a messenger as pretains to my salvation. I would feel like I am associating some with God. I don't feel comfortable naming a non deity as part of my declaration as being someone who submits to God.
Click to expand...

But you feel comfortable in accepting that God manifests himself as himself, as a human and as a unknown spirit? You feel comfortable in accepting that God was born out of a woman and was suckled at birth? You feel comfortable in accepting that God was a was persecuted and slaughtered by his own creations. You also feel comfortable in accepting that God himself died on a cross killed by his own creations. You feel comfortable in accepting all of this when it isnt even backed up by the words of God or Jesus?

I feel very comfortable in accepting the finality and seal of the Prophets - Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) who only came to establish the oneness of God as did every Prophet.

But at least I am free from believing that God has partners or manifests himself in many different forms, for he is above his creation and he does not need to become human or an unknown spirit. He does not need to feel what a human does or be born from a women, be suckled at birth and persecuted and slaughteted by his own creations. These are utter lies to defame the name of God.

There is NOTHING that you have provided or can provide to back up such lies and blasphemy of the Lord most high.
 
Hamza Asadullah said:
I feel very comfortable in accepting the finality and seal of the Prophets - Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) who only came to establish the oneness of God as did every Prophet.
Click to expand...
How can he be the only one who established the oneness of God if prophets that Christians believed in before Muhammad was born did it before him?
 
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah "I feel very comfortable in accepting the finality and seal of the Prophets - Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) who only came to establish the oneness of God as did every Prophet."
Click to expand...
Burninglight said:
How can he be the only one who established the oneness of God if prophets that Christians believed in before Muhammad was born did it before him?
Click to expand...
Brother Hamza stated that the only purpose of Muhammad (saaws) being the Messenger of Allah (swt) was the same as the other prophets, which was to establish the worship of One God. He was not the only prophet with this mission, merely the last.
 
Burninglight said:
There is God but God, but I cannot add the name of a messenger as pretains to my salvation. I would feel like I am associating some with God.

the Messengers are not partners of God, they bring His Message.

I don't feel comfortable naming a non deity as part of my declaration as being someone who submits to God.

the naming of the Messengers CONFIRMS the submission to God by declaring that you will submit to those God chose to bring His Message. if you obey other than God's Messenger's, you submit to Satan rather than God. [which is EXACTLY what the devil prefers, so suit yourself]
Click to expand...

to state muhammadur rasulullah is to state the names of ALL of the Messengers of Allah! they all bore the same Message, Moses, pbuh, Jesus, pbuh, Solomon, pbuh, David, pbuh, Joseph, pbuh, Jacob, pbuh, Abraham, pbuh, etc.

it is absurd to claim that you don't want to use the name of a Messenger of God, when you actually do! you use the name of Isa Rasulullah, yet rather than obey him, you worship him...

:wa:
 
MustafaMc said:
Brother Hamza stated that the only purpose of Muhammad (saaws) being the Messenger of Allah (swt) was the same as the other prophets, which was to establish the worship of One God. He was not the only prophet with this mission, merely the last.
Click to expand...
If the oneness of God has already been established by the prophets that came before, why was that Muhammad's only mission or only purpose? Besides each prophet came for different reasons before Muhammad's time in the Bible. None of them came only to promote that God was one. The people already understood that. Prophet Moses, for instance, came to deliver the children of Israel; Prophet Jeremiah warned to submit to the king of Babalyon Prophet Jonah to warn Ninever and etc. Muhammad didn't come with a new or different Message. Muslims believed in Allah before he came and the oneness of God had already been preached and taught by Jews and Christians. Unless you mean that he came to set the record for those that worship 360 deities during re-Islam times, but Jews and Christians didn't need told that God is one. Right?
 
Last edited:
Burninglight said:
If the oneness of God has already been established by the prophets that came before, why was that Muhammad's only mission or only purpose? ... Muhammad didn't come with a new or different Message. Muslims believed in Allah before he came and the oneness of God had already been preached and taught by Jews and Christians. Unless you mean that he came to set the record for those that worship 360 deities during re-Islam times, but Jews and Christians didn't need told that God is one. Right?
Click to expand...
I am not sure about how much the Jews and Christians preached and taught to the pagans of Mecca, but I know that idol worship was rampant. There were various Jewish communities in the surrounding area including Yathrib which later became known as Medina. My understanding of Judaism is that the Jews are most definitely not evangelical, but rather they have an elitist attitude with disdain for Gentiles. Even Jesus was sent only to the 'lost sheep of Israel'.

I am aware of Muhammad (saaws) visiting a Christian convert, Waraqah, who was knowledgeable about the scripture, but I don't think there were many Christians in Mecca or the surrounding area. Although I am unaware of Muhammad (saaws) preaching to any Christian about their associating partners with Allah (swt), but the Quran is replete with passages that unequivocally deny that Jesus was the Son of Allah.

Actually, the establishment of Islam as a way of life is more involved than just the worship of Allah (swt) alone.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top