message in Christianity

[Grace Seeker]

but like truthfully now...

say you were like tarzan or somebody, stuck in the jungle with no access to the outer world, and if you really pondered about it, what is the most likely conclusion that you would come to?... a trinity? i think not.

Using logic that Allah granted us we would come to the conclusion that there is One Creator...

you need to go back to the beginning, think -don't just believe what your fathers believed. Even muslims should ponder and not just follow on just because you were born in this state

Which is why revelation is so important. Left on one's own devices to imagine God, one would likely imagine something other than the true God. It was from the revelation and their experience of God that Christians reached the view they have, they did not depend on human logic, but God's self-revelation.

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

bismillah

assalaamu 'alaikum akhi

audhu billah minash shaytaanir rajim

Left alone to ones own self I believe that one can come to the realization that through diversity...there is unity.

Now this trinitarian concept is foreign to the revelations of God in the first place. However it was through revelation that God revealed that he was ONE and ONE ALONE.

WaAllaahu Alam

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

but like truthfully now...

say you were like tarzan or somebody, stuck in the jungle with no access to the outer world, and if you really pondered about it, what is the most likely conclusion that you would come to?... a trinity? i think not.

Using logic that Allah granted us we would come to the conclusion that there is One Creator...

you need to go back to the beginning, think -don't just believe what your fathers believed. Even muslims should ponder and not just follow on just because you were born in this state

bismillah

assalaamu 'alaikum ukh,

I see what you are saying but as history has shown their are many that deviated from the worship of Allaah ta'alaa because they placed their trust in something else and/or philosophy of some sort with the concepts of many divine beings and such.

That is why in this aspect Islaam is not like any other monotheistic deen, because through wahy, Allaah ta'alaa has placed us on the siraatal mustaqiim and has given us the hikmah. The most beautiful concept and belief we have is tawhid. Study that in depth and it will astound you insh'Allaah ta'alaa.

ma'a ssalaama

waAllaahualam

 

[Grace Seeker]

Now this trinitarian concept is foreign to the revelations of God in the first place. However it was through revelation that God revealed that he was ONE and ONE ALONE.

WaAllaahu Alam

Not as foreign as you might at first think.

You are correct that God revealed that he was (and is) ONE.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. (Isaiah 46:9)

But that does not preclude the ONE God from manifesting himself to us in more than one personage. God speaks of himself as "US" in four places even in the Tanakh, yet we all know the Jews are strictly monotheistic.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)
"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." (Genesis 11:7)
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" (Isaiah 6:8)

As this is God's own self-revelation, and the ONE God still uses plural pronouns to refer to himself, then somehow there must be some sort of plurality contained within his singleness. Christians are NOT saying there is more than one God. We believe in one God and one God only. But we are saying that in respect to the nature of this ONE God that there is something about him that is different than us, that is while each of us is only one person in each one of our beings, God is not so confined. We are not giving God associates nor partners. We are saying that God himself is ONE being and yet more than just an isolated individual. God is not like us, and this should be no surprise as God is greater than us. Greater even than singleness, and yet still just one. It is a mystery, but a mystery God himself has made known to us, otherwise we should not ever conceive of such a thing out of our own imagination. For no one has ever seen anything like this before nor since. Yet, all of this is in harmony with the teaching of these scriptures. To teach otherwise would be to be teaching contrary to what God has made known with regard to himself.

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

bismillah

Greetings Grace Seeker

I would like to clarify that statement before I respond, but I will do so later Godwilling.

Peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

Now, to put it in Islaamic terminology in regards to the trinity for the brother and sisters who do not really grasp the concept. According to trinitarians

Allaah ----> God the Father
'Isa ----> God the Son
Jibr'il ----> God the Holy Ghost/Spirit

The majority of Christians are taught that the above three are co-equal, co-eternal, and none are greater or less than the other in any of the qualities that are attributed to God.

You have done well in stating many things that Christians believe. However, if I may, I would like to make a couple of corrections in the way you have made the above comparison of terms. As I understand it, Allah is the Arabaic word for God. So, Allah is the whole unity of God, not just God the Father. 'Isa would then be Allah manifested as the Son. And we have to determine if by Jibr'il you mean Gabriel or the Holy Spirit. For us Gabriel is just an angel, a messenger of Allah, nothing more. Gabriel is distinct from the Holy Spirit.

So, from the Christian perspective it looks a little more like the chart below

Allah manifesting himself as the Father
/​

God=[-- Allah manifesting himself as the Son (a.k.a. 'Isa)

\
Allah manifesting himself as the Holy Spirit (but NOT a.k.a. Gabriel)​

Don't get confused into thinking that we believe these manifestions of Allah to be independent beings, they are not. (Remember God has no partners; we agree.) It is just the one Allah choosing to make himself known to us in more than one way.

 

[Silver Pearl]

You have done well in stating many things that Christians believe. However, if I may, I would like to make a couple of corrections in the way you have made the above comparison of terms. As I understand it, Allah is the Arabaic word for God. So, Allah is the whole unity of God, not just God the Father. 'Isa would then be Allah manifested as the Son. And we have to determine if by Jibr'il you mean Gabriel or the Holy Spirit. For us Gabriel is just an angel, a messenger of Allah, nothing more. Gabriel is distinct from the Holy Spirit.

So, from the Christian perspective it looks a little more like the chart below

Allah manifesting himself as the Father​

/​

God=[-- Allah manifesting himself as the Son (a.k.a. 'Isa)

\​

Allah manifesting himself as the Holy Spirit (but NOT a.k.a. Gabriel)​

Don't get confused into thinking that we believe these manifestions of Allah to be independent beings, they are not. (Remember God has no partners; we agree.) It is just the one Allah choosing to make himself known to us in more than one way.

Greetings Grace Seeker,

From my understanding of christianity your chart seems coherent. I'd like to address your last statement about you believing in one God, monotheism. I'm aware that christianity preaches monotheism but aside from Jehovah witness alot of christian sects are in agreement in the whole, The father, The son, The holy spirit (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not saying God can not be all power as he is to be able to manifest himself into whatever he please. Nonetheless why did Jesus (peace be upon him) cry out to the father if it was God himself who had taken the form of a human? Jesus (peace be upon him) was able to perform miracles but by no means did he have the level of power that is associated with God only. I would attempt to be on the same level as yourself if there is any indication to Jesus (peace be upon him) having powers that matched God's power. In Islam David and Solomon (peace be upon them) were powerful and could control wind, jinn but yet they are not elivated to the position of God.

The trinity is not fluent, rather it has bought forth a concept which in itself can not be backed up with evidence, so naturally I'd say there is a lack of validity in the trinity. Under no circumstance did Jesus (peace be upon him) state that 'I'm God,' as your chart would indicate if this assumption was accurate.

Regards

 

[Grace Seeker]

Jesus, in his earthly existence, lived it like any other man would. Thus the miracles he did, he did by the power of Allah the Holy Spirit working through him. This is not something that Christians think about often, so we sometimes use sloppy language and talk about Jesus doing miracles.

Of course, I still assert that Jesus, even while not exercising divine power while on earth, was still God. While I know that many Muslims find this idea repulsive that God should take on human form, and lower himself to the nature of something created, we Christians believe it nonetheless to be true -- that is that Jesus actually possessed two complete natures (one of man and the other of God) simultaneously and yet without ambiguity. But because he was on earth, Jesus lived as any other man would have lived, temporarily divesting himself of divine power while on earth and having only that power which was granted to him by Allah the Father. Thus we see Jesus living as every other man would have (at least those that submit to God) seeking communion with God the Father in prayer and being totally dependant on him for all his needs. Thus, if any other man would need to cry out to the Father to meet his needs, then so would Jesus. The difference is that Jesus actually did this in perfect dependance on God the Father, whereas other men often try to make a go of it on their own without God. Jesus never did that.

Of course, Jesus was conscious of his unique connection with God the Father. He actually did speak of it. He experienced special times of recognition of it at his baptism by John the Baptist in which God the Holy Spirit came to rest upon him, and again at his transfiguration. As Christians, we don't believe that we elevated Jesus to divine status, but rather that he was in fact divine and the reality of that aspect of Jesus which at first was not understood by his followers was something that was eventually made known to and understood by the disciples who have passed that knowledge on to the rest of us.

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

Not as foreign as you might at first think.

You are correct that God revealed that he was (and is) ONE.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. (Isaiah 46:9)

But that does not preclude the ONE God from manifesting himself to us in more than one personage. God speaks of himself as "US" in four places even in the Tanakh, yet we all know the Jews are strictly monotheistic.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)
"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." (Genesis 11:7)
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" (Isaiah 6:8)

As this is God's own self-revelation, and the ONE God still uses plural pronouns to refer to himself, then somehow there must be some sort of plurality contained within his singleness. Christians are NOT saying there is more than one God. We believe in one God and one God only. But we are saying that in respect to the nature of this ONE God that there is something about him that is different than us, that is while each of us is only one person in each one of our beings, God is not so confined. We are not giving God associates nor partners. We are saying that God himself is ONE being and yet more than just an isolated individual. God is not like us, and this should be no surprise as God is greater than us. Greater even than singleness, and yet still just one. It is a mystery, but a mystery God himself has made known to us, otherwise we should not ever conceive of such a thing out of our own imagination. For no one has ever seen anything like this before nor since. Yet, all of this is in harmony with the teaching of these scriptures. To teach otherwise would be to be teaching contrary to what God has made known with regard to himself.

Not as foreign as you might at first think.

You are correct that God revealed that he was (and is) ONE.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. (Isaiah 46:9)

But that does not preclude the ONE God from manifesting himself to us in more than one personage. God speaks of himself as "US" in four places even in the Tanakh, yet we all know the Jews are strictly monotheistic.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)
"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." (Genesis 11:7)
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" (Isaiah 6:8)

As this is God's own self-revelation, and the ONE God still uses plural pronouns to refer to himself, then somehow there must be some sort of plurality contained within his singleness. Christians are NOT saying there is more than one God. We believe in one God and one God only. But we are saying that in respect to the nature of this ONE God that there is something about him that is different than us, that is while each of us is only one person in each one of our beings, God is not so confined. We are not giving God associates nor partners. We are saying that God himself is ONE being and yet more than just an isolated individual. God is not like us, and this should be no surprise as God is greater than us. Greater even than singleness, and yet still just one. It is a mystery, but a mystery God himself has made known to us, otherwise we should not ever conceive of such a thing out of our own imagination. For no one has ever seen anything like this before nor since. Yet, all of this is in harmony with the teaching of these scriptures. To teach otherwise would be to be teaching contrary to what God has made known with regard to himself.

Greetings,

I would definitely disagree with your use of the above verses from the Tanach to prove the Trinitarian concept, Grace_Seeker.

Firstly, many prominent Trinitarian Christian scholars do not recognize Genesis 1:26 as God speaking of His plurality. Actually, a number of Trinitarian Christian scholars have long left the notion that Genesis 1:26 implies a plurality of persons in the godhead. On the other hand, Christian scholars overwhelmingly agree that the plural pronoun in this verse is a reference to God’s ministering angels who were created previously, and the Almighty spoke majestically in the plural, consulting His heavenly court.

Let’s take a look at comments of some preeminent Trinitarian scholars on this subject. For example, the evangelical Christian author Gordon J. Wenham authored a widely respected two-volume commentary on the Book of Genesis; writes on this verse:

"Christians have traditionally seen [Genesis 1:26] as adumbrating [foreshadowing] the Trinity. It is now universally admitted that this was not what the plural meant to the original author." (Gordon J. Wenham, Word Biblical Commentary on Genesis, Word Books, 1987, p. 27.)


Charles Caldwell Ryrie, a highly regarded dispensationalist professor of Biblical Studies at the Philadelphia College of Bible and author of the widely read Bible commentary, The Ryrie Study Bible, writes in his concise annotation on Genesis 1:26:

"Us . . . Our. Plurals of majesty." (Charles Caldwell Ryrie, The Ryrie Study Bible [Dallas Theological Seminary], Chicago: Moody Press, 1978, p. 9.)

The Liberty Annotated Study Bible, a Bible commentary published by the Reverend Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, similarly remarks on this verse:

"The plural pronoun “Us” is most likely a majestic plural from the standpoint of Hebrew grammar and syntax." (Jerry Falwell [Executive Editor], Liberty Annotated Study Bible, Lynchburg: Liberty University, 1988, p. 8.)

The 10-volume commentary by Keil and Delitzsch is considered by many to be the most influential exposition on the Old Testament in evangelical circles. However, in its commentary on Genesis 1:26, we find:

"The plural 'We' was regarded by the fathers and earlier theologians almost unanimously as indicative of the Trinity; modern commentators, on the contrary, regard it either as pluralis majestatis . . . No other explanation is left, therefore, than to regard it as pluralis majestatis . . . ." ( Keil & Delitzsch, Commentary on the Old Testament, Peabody: Hendric., 1989, Vol. I, p. 62.)


The answer to this question is simple. If you search the Bible you will find that when the Almighty God speaks of “us” or “our,” He is addressing His attendant angels; however, it points moreover to a plural of majesty used in reference to God alone.

In fact, only two chapters later, God continues to use the pronoun “us” as He speaks with His angels. At the end of the third chapter of Genesis the Almighty relates to His angels that Adam and his wife have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and must therefore be prevented from eating from the Tree of Life as well; for if man would gain access to the Tree of Life he will “become like one of us.” The Creator then instructs his angels known as Cherubim to stand at the gate of the Garden of Eden waving a flaming sword so that mankind is prevented from entering the Garden and eating from the Tree of Life. Let’s examine Genesis 3:22-24.

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” -- therefore the Lord God sent him out of the Garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the Garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.



This use of the majestic plural in Genesis 3:22-24 is what is intended by the NIV Study Bible’s annotation on Genesis 1:26 (above). At the end of its comment on this verse, the NIV Study Bible provides a number of Bible sources from the Jewish scriptures to support its position that “God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court.” The verses cited are: Genesis 3:22, 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, I Kings 22:19-23, Job 15:8, and Jeremiah 23:18. These verses convey to the attentive Bible reader that the heavenly abode of the Creator is filled with the ministering angels who attend the Almighty and to whom He repeatedly refers when using the plural pronoun “Us.”

(A similar verse that you used from the Book of Isaiah is also used as a reference, describing God as He converses with His ministering angels is found in the beginning of the sixth chapter of Isaiah, which reads,

In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the Temple. Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew . . . Also, I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”) Isaiah 6:1, 8



waAllaahualim

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

Jesus, in his earthly existence, lived it like any other man would. Thus the miracles he did, he did by the power of Allah the Holy Spirit working through him. This is not something that Christians think about often, so we sometimes use sloppy language and talk about Jesus doing miracles.

Of course, I still assert that Jesus, even while not exercising divine power while on earth, was still God. While I know that many Muslims find this idea repulsive that God should take on human form, and lower himself to the nature of something created, we Christians believe it nonetheless to be true -- that is that Jesus actually possessed two complete natures (one of man and the other of God) simultaneously and yet without ambiguity. But because he was on earth, Jesus lived as any other man would have lived, temporarily divesting himself of divine power while on earth and having only that power which was granted to him by Allah the Father. Thus we see Jesus living as every other man would have (at least those that submit to God) seeking communion with God the Father in prayer and being totally dependant on him for all his needs. Thus, if any other man would need to cry out to the Father to meet his needs, then so would Jesus. The difference is that Jesus actually did this in perfect dependance on God the Father, whereas other men often try to make a go of it on their own without God. Jesus never did that.

Of course, Jesus was conscious of his unique connection with God the Father. He actually did speak of it. He experienced special times of recognition of it at his baptism by John the Baptist in which God the Holy Spirit came to rest upon him, and again at his transfiguration. As Christians, we don't believe that we elevated Jesus to divine status, but rather that he was in fact divine and the reality of that aspect of Jesus which at first was not understood by his followers was something that was eventually made known to and understood by the disciples who have passed that knowledge on to the rest of us.

Hypostatic Union.


"The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58; 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus took on human flesh - He became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus' two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus' humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6; 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus' actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one person or personality.

The doctrine of the hypostatic union is an attempt to explain how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. It is ultimately, though, a doctrine that we are incapable of fully understanding. It is impossible for us to fully understand how God works. We, as finite human beings, should not expect to be able to comprehend an infinite God. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus always has existed (John 8:58; 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1,14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being so that He could identify with us in our struggles (Hebrews 2:17) and, more importantly, so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Philippians 2:5-11). In summary, the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever."

My thoughts:

Trinitarian Christians claim that Jesus had two natures: human and divine. They contend that even though in his human nature he grew in knowledge and wisdom, in his divine nature, he was all-knowing. Likewise in his human nature he was weak, but in his divine nature he was all-powerful. Even though he died as a man, he was everliving and everlasting as God.

They assert that the verse where Jesus says according to the Bible: "My Father is greater than I," he was speaking from his human capacity and not his divine capacity. Trinitarians say that as a man, God the Father is greater than Jesus, but as God they are equal.

Please note that Jesus in the Bible does not give ANY indications that he was doing something in his human or alleged divine nature.

It is common sense that the attributes of man are imperfect, fallible, and incomplete; but on the other hand the attributes of God are perfect and complete. How can the same being possess the attributes of perfection and imperfection at the same time?

This alleged "Duel Nature" is not something that Jesus taught and the concept is known as "Hypostatic Union". It was formalized over 400 centuries after Jesus was taken by Allaah.

Hypostatic Union formalized in 451 C.E.
"The doctrine of Hypostatic Union, first set forth officially in the definition of faith produced by the Council of Chalcedon (4510, concerns the union of the two natures (dyo physes) of deity and humanity in one hypostasis or person of Jesus Christ. It can be stated as follows: In the incarnation of the Son of, a human nature was inseparably united forever with the divine nature in the one person of Jesus Christ, yet with the two natures remaining distinct, whole, and unchanged, without mixture or confusion so that one person , Jesus Christ, is truly God and truly man."

Taken from: Elwell's Evangelical Theological Dictionary (Digital, under Hypostatic Union)

waAllaahu alim

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

You have done well in stating many things that Christians believe. However, if I may, I would like to make a couple of corrections in the way you have made the above comparison of terms. As I understand it, Allah is the Arabaic word for God. So, Allah is the whole unity of God, not just God the Father. 'Isa would then be Allah manifested as the Son. And we have to determine if by Jibr'il you mean Gabriel or the Holy Spirit. For us Gabriel is just an angel, a messenger of Allah, nothing more. Gabriel is distinct from the Holy Spirit.

So, from the Christian perspective it looks a little more like the chart below

Allah manifesting himself as the Father
/​

God=[-- Allah manifesting himself as the Son (a.k.a. 'Isa)

\
Allah manifesting himself as the Holy Spirit (but NOT a.k.a. Gabriel)​

Don't get confused into thinking that we believe these manifestions of Allah to be independent beings, they are not. (Remember God has no partners; we agree.) It is just the one Allah choosing to make himself known to us in more than one way.

Greetings,

Grace Seeker, I was modifying the idea using Islaamic terminology.

 

[duskiness]

It is common sense that the attributes of man are imperfect, fallible, and incomplete; but on the other hand the attributes of God are perfect and complete. How can the same being possess the attributes of perfection and imperfection at the same time?

Doesn't infinity include finite ? Maybe then what is perfect has to include imperfect...
but that are just my thoughts. :-[

How it was possible technically i don't know.
I can leave you with 2 well known quotes about Incarnation

"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."

The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.

This alleged "Duel Nature" is not something that Jesus taught and the concept is known as "Hypostatic Union". It was formalized over 400 centuries after Jesus was taken by Allaah.

But in Philippians 2; 5-8:

5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

I think it is called kenosis - God bared/humiliated Himself. If ask why He would do it - there is very typical, Christian answer - "Because He loved us". If you would ask how He did it - there is other very typical answer - shrugging shoulders

i wanted to point you one thing:

"The doctrine of Hypostatic Union, first set forth officially in the definition of faith produced by the Council of Chalcedon (4510, concerns the union of the two natures (dyo physes) of deity and humanity in one hypostasis or person of Jesus Christ.

it wasn't invented there...

 

[Grace Seeker]

Greetings,

Grace Seeker, I was modifying the idea using Islaamic terminology.

Of course you were. And as I said, you did well for that purpose. But I didn't want anyone, especially Muslims, to be misled into thinking that these were the Christian understandings of these terms. Many Muslims seem to think that we identify Gabriel with the Holy Spirit. That would be like suggesting that actually translates to "Hi!" because it is used as a greeting.

 

[Eesa Abdullah]

Doesn't infinity include finite ? Maybe then what is perfect has to include imperfect...
but that are just my thoughts. :-[

How it was possible technically i don't know.
I can leave you with 2 well known quotes about Incarnation


But in Philippians 2; 5-8:

I think it is called kenosis - God bared/humiliated Himself. If ask why He would do it - there is very typical, Christian answer - "Because He loved us". If you would ask how He did it - there is other very typical answer - shrugging shoulders

i wanted to point you one thing:

it wasn't invented there...

Greetings, Duskiness

The bottom line is that it is unknown how Jesus can be both God and man at the same time; however, I would like to say that it is completely absurd that this doctrine of ‘Hypostatic Union’ or ‘Dyophysite’can suggest that Jesus possessed two natures.

If you can post the references for the two verses you quoted above and also in Philippians who is speaking? Since the concept was not invented, I assume it is spoken of throughout the entire corpus of the Bible?

 

[don532]

I appreciate the responses.

Do Christians believe in their deeds being scaled on the Day of Judgement?

Is there a logical explanation for Jesus dying for people's sins but not really dying? How can someones sins be wiped away because of someone else's death? Is there any logical explanation, or is just a 'blind faith' type of belief?
Once again, I appreciate the responses.

I don't know if the second part of this question has been answered to your satisfaction yet or not, so I will offer some input.
The Christian belief is all men sin, so are worthy of death. Death is the wages, or result of sin.
Jesus did not sin, yet he died. He rose again. In that way, he conquered death.
In a relationship with Him, the Christian can also conquer death.
My words are imperfect, but I hope I offered some useful input to the Christian perspective. Peace.

 

[akulion]

i find it strange that hindus say god came down as a man, woman, animal (various forms), creatures (mostly mythological) and manifested in amny forms.

To me Christianity is pretty much the same at the end of the day.

Just my 2 cents

 

[don532]

I am not a great scholar, but we see in John chapter 10:

The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

So, in the Bible, Jesus said He and the Father are one. One can to go to bible.com and search on holy spirit to see all the references to the holy spirit filling people, causing Mary to be with child, people being baptized with the holy spirit, speaking against the holy spirit is a sin, speaking for people, revealing things to people, giving joy, being sent by God, encouraging people, etc.

I think these things direct Christians to the trinity concept.

 

[don532]

i find it strange that hindus say god came down as a man, woman, animal (various forms), creatures (mostly mythological) and manifested in amny forms.

To me Christianity is pretty much the same at the end of the day.

Just my 2 cents

Greetings.
I think the difference is the question of who Jesus is. As in the title of the thread, the message of Christianity, the difference between Christianity and most other religions is the belief in Jesus as the Savior.
Peace.

 

[NoName55]

If you are the Christ, tell us plainly

we already believe him to be the Christ if it is greek for Mesih.

don't understand how his acknowledment;"I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me" tells us he said I'm your God

if anything these verses tell me that he is talking about a third party

 

[don532]

we already believe him to be the Christ if it is greek for Mesih.

don't understand how his acknowledment;"I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me" tells us he said I'm your God

if anything these verses tell me that he is talking about a third party

In verse 30, He says I and the Father are one. I think that is taken to mean he is also God.