Mingling and Mixing of sexes

[glo]

Intergender relations are highly contextual. In some Muslim cultures, men and women do befriend one another; in others, they barely speak. In some Muslim cultures, men and women speak freely for matters of commerce, education, esp. religious topics, but do not socialize per se. In all Muslim cultures, chastity is valued, but the association of social intercourse with intercourse of another kind is not universally made among Muslims.

That's interestig, NJUSA.
Thanks for your reply.

Another point I would like to make, is that whilst I agree that such rules which prevent contact between men and women also prevent the risk of inappropriate relationships, it also indicates a certain level of distrust. :rollseyes

For example, if my husband did not want me to go to work to avoid me coming in contact with other men, or if I did not want him to socialise with other women, I would somehow feel that our marriage is lacking trust.
My husband trusts me to be faithful - not because there are rules in place which prevent me from being unfaithful to him, but because I love him, cherish our marriage and would not want to be unfaithful!
The same applies the other way round.

Does that make sense?

Peace.

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

Hi Glo

Given that half the world's population are of the opposite sex, do I not do well to try to understand and relate to them?
How do I learn to understand and relate to them, if not through communicating with them?

What I am trying to say is, that I don't think the opposite sex should be a 'closed book', some great mystery, which will only be revealed through contact with close relatives and finally through marriage.

Islam is very simple. Its a complete way of life and everything is structured in a perfect manner. Allah has legislated things for us and we must follow Him. Everything is done for a reason. If you want to hve contact with a man for marriage have your wali (father) with you. If it's business wise and you are in close contact with him i.e alone with him in a room that is haram (forbidden) so take one of your Mahrams with you.

Why all this? This is for your own benefit. To safe guard yourself from all falling into sins....how many couples have afairs?...how did it all start? Having a close contat with the oppsite gender. Just take a look at the soceity with live in.

How much contact, for example, are Muslim women exposed to with Muslim men (In appropriate ways, of course)?

I don't understand you question...If a Muslim is truly practsing Islam then there is no reason for her to have a close contact with a man whom is not her mahram....

I somehow feel that if I could only speak to certain people whilst averting my eyes from them, and speaking softly, I would find it difficult to get to know them properly.

Allah tells s (women) to lower our gaze and not to be soft in speech.

I am not some loose women, I can assure you!
I don't think of other men as potential sexual partners. And I conduct myself in a manner which gives that message to the outside world.
I am a faithful wife, and have been for 20 years!
And yet, my life would be so much poorer, if it wasn't for male friends, and conversations and an insight into the 'male world'.

Do you honestly need to have male friends? Why not simply stick to females? Isn't that better for you so as to avoid fitnah (temptations) and falling into the trap of Satan? Honestly you don't need to have male friends to understand the male world!

 

[glo]

Hi Glo

Why all this? This is for your own benefit. To safe guard yourself from all falling into sins....how many couples have afairs?...how did it all start? Having a close contat with the oppsite gender. Just take a look at the soceity with live in.

I understand what you are saying.
But like I said, myself (and many other people!) have regular contact with people of the other gender, without having an endless string of affairs!
Although to have an affair you need to have the opportunity to do so, first and foremost there needs to be an intrinsic desire to have an affair.

I don't understand you question...If a Muslim is truly practsing Islam then there is no reason for her to have a close contact with a man whom is not her mahram....

This demonstrates our cultural differences quite clearly.
To me communication with people is a vital part of my daily life - that includes men and women, friends, relatives and strangers. They all have an important contribution to make in my life.

Allah tells s (women) to lower our gaze and not to be soft in speech.

Sorry, I misread.
I suppose this means 'soft speech' as in seductive. I took it to mean 'soft speech' as in not assertive.

Do you honestly need to have male friends? Why not simply stick to females? Isn't that better for you so as to avoid fitnah (temptations) and falling into the trap of Satan? Honestly you don't need to have male friends to understand the male world!

See my above comment.
I hugely value all my friends, men and women alike. I would hate to look at all male friends and aquaintances with suspicion, as if they all were potential sexual predators. Believe me, they are not! :rollseyes

I am not obsessed with people's gender. I like to talk to people, hear their thoughts and views, share their worlds - they are people first, male and female second.
I respect your views, but I don't agree with them.
We have to agree to disagree. :thankyou:

Peace.

 

[x Maz x]

MashAllah the issue has been addressed, I dont think there is a need to interact so openly with the opposite gender, Although I am a sinner of this and i have fallen into this trap i just think to avoid causin fitnah stick with your ukhtys InshAllah and btw Respect to Sister Muminah...MashAllah soo knowledgable for such a young chic Nuf lv n respect goin out 2 ya Peace n stay blessed x

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

I understand what you are saying.
But like I said, myself (and many other people!) have regular contact with people of the other gender, without having an endless string of affairs!
Although to have an affair you need to have the opportunity to do so, first and foremost there needs to be an intrinsic desire to have an affair.

This demonstrates our cultural differences quite clearly.
To me communication with people is a vital part of my daily life - that includes men and women, friends, relatives and strangers. They all have an important contribution to make in my life.

Not really...i don't think this is about culture differences..most certaintly in my culture men and women mix. Indeed communication is an important part in my cultue too however its my way of life (islam) which comes first.


Allah says in the Qur'an: `It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His messenger have decreed a matter that they should have an option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed in a plain error.' (33:36).

Sorry, I misread.
I suppose this means 'soft speech' as in seductive. I took it to mean 'soft speech' as in not assertive.

Allah says in the Qur'an:`Be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy or evil desire for adultery, etc) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.' (S33:32)

Not soft in speech as in not been flirty....some women talk in a very seductive voice....

See my above comment.
I hugely value all my friends, men and women alike. I would hate to look at all male friends and aquaintances with suspicion, as if they all were potential sexual predators. Believe me, they are not! :rollseyes

And i am sure that not all males are sexual predators (as you put it) but in Islam a Muslim must hear and obey. To be honest here if people were following the ways of Islam alot of issues such as rape, affairs, sexual harassment etc would stop. Don't you think?

Let me just give you an example outside the topic.... Our Prophet Muhammad pbuh told us...“If you want to go to bed, perform ablution as that for prayer, then lie down on your right side, .....(Bukhari and Muslim) He pbuh didn't tell us why....still we Muslim follow him...but now scientist advice us to sleep on our right side due to blood circulation..My point is everything Allah and His Messager pbuh tell us to do is for our benefits.....

The manner in which men and women should conduct with oneanother certainty their is benefits to it.

I am not obsessed with people's gender. I like to talk to people, hear their thoughts and views, share their worlds - they are people first, male and female second.

I'm sure not. But why must you speak with men...if you like talking to them or you want to be able to relate to them (know about the world of men) why not talk to your brother, father, husband, granfather etc

 

[glo]

Thank you, Al-Mu'minah, for your patience to explain.

I still don't agree and probably never will. :rollseyes

Peace and blessings! :thankyou:

 

[NJUSA]

I, like many Muslim women before me, work and socialize with men and women. I work in the office with men and women, I tutor men and women, I enjoy social gatherings and conversations with men and women. Some of the men I socialize with are Muslim; some are non-Muslim. The men that I socialize with know the limits and observe them wonderfully, and we keep our intercourse at the social level. Could I restrict myself to female friends only? It's possible, but I'd be a less wise and healthy person in the absence of several friends who care for me and challenge me to be a better person. There is a difference between modesty and segregation. Modesty is a curtain between the sexual and non-sexual parts of one's life. A certain amount of it is neccessary, and can be withdrawn when needed. Segregation is a wall between human beings. It is only needed to prevent danger, and is meant to be more or less permanent. I refuse to believe that morally sound people are an inherent danger to society, and must be put behind walls for the protection of and from other morally sound people. My brethren in faith and humanity are not morally deficient on account of their gender;likewise for my sistren in faith and humanity. Why, then, must we be alienated from each other and our own selves?

 

[primitivefuture]

Why is it that premarital sex is prominent in Christian countries such as America and Britain?

 

[Halima]

Why is it that premarital sex is prominent in Christian countries such as America and Britain?

Religion plays no major part in people's lives at major western countries like Britain and America. Just look back 1400 years ago in the Catholic religion there was no such thing as a premarital relationship. If there was, the penalty was stoning, execution, or disclaiming.


All it was courtship and then marriage. The same trend that happend back then applies to the Islamic ruling of courtship and marriage as a request.


So, as you can see, in Islam, it is a complete way of life. There are directions for everything you do from using the restroom to going to sleep. All of these rules are for a reason. They apply to the same thing that Allah(swt) has prohibited or permitted what we do in this world in essence to the hereafter.

 

[Woodrow]

Jazakallahu Khairan for the highly informational thread.

 

[glo]

Thank you,

I, like many Muslim women before me, work and socialize with men and women. I work in the office with men and women, I tutor men and women, I enjoy social gatherings and conversations with men and women. Some of the men I socialize with are Muslim; some are non-Muslim. The men that I socialize with know the limits and observe them wonderfully, and we keep our intercourse at the social level. Could I restrict myself to female friends only? It's possible, but I'd be a less wise and healthy person in the absence of several friends who care for me and challenge me to be a better person. There is a difference between modesty and segregation. Modesty is a curtain between the sexual and non-sexual parts of one's life. A certain amount of it is neccessary, and can be withdrawn when needed. Segregation is a wall between human beings. It is only needed to prevent danger, and is meant to be more or less permanent. I refuse to believe that morally sound people are an inherent danger to society, and must be put behind walls for the protection of and from other morally sound people. My brethren in faith and humanity are not morally deficient on account of their gender;likewise for my sistren in faith and humanity. Why, then, must we be alienated from each other and our own selves?

Thank you, NJUSA, your post echoes so much how I feel about this. :thankyou:
I highlighted the parts which spoke to me particularly! It is encouraging to hear such a view from a Muslim sister.

Peace!

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Well, it is a matter of faith for me. I was confused about whether free-mixing was haraam or not when I first started practicing. I actually never used to free-mix before I started practicing and I used to only have female friends. But after about a year of practicing I started that. But it never really felt right to me. The brother was practicing too, and i suspect he knew it was wrong too. But anyway I was really confused and I made du'a to Allah to let me see what was right. And a couple of days later I got my answer. So personally I know what the right answer is for me. Since then I have read up on the matter and I feel that I definitely made the right decision.

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

Originally Posted by NJUSA
I, like many Muslim women before me, work and socialize with men and women. I work in the office with men and women, I tutor men and women, I enjoy social gatherings and conversations with men and women. Some of the men I socialize with are Muslim; some are non-Muslim. The men that I socialize with know the limits and observe them wonderfully, and we keep our intercourse at the social level. Could I restrict myself to female friends only? It's possible, but I'd be a less wise and healthy person in the absence of several friends who care for me and challenge me to be a better person. There is a difference between modesty and segregation. Modesty is a curtain between the sexual and non-sexual parts of one's life. A certain amount of it is neccessary, and can be withdrawn when needed. Segregation is a wall between human beings. It is only needed to prevent danger, and is meant to be more or less permanent. I refuse to believe that morally sound people are an inherent danger to society, and must be put behind walls for the protection of and from other morally sound people. My brethren in faith and humanity are not morally deficient on account of their gender;likewise for my sistren in faith and humanity. Why, then, must we be alienated from each other and our own selves?

Ok so you say all this....but what does Islam say? I think we all know the answer to that and have gone through it. So I'll just leave it at that.

 

[glo]

But anyway I was really confused and I made du'a to Allah to let me see what was right. And a couple of days later I got my answer. So personally I know what the right answer is for me. Since then I have read up on the matter and I feel that I definitely made the right decision.

It's interesting that you say that.
Because from what I have learned on this board over the past few weeks, it seems to me that Islam leaves only little room for personal interpretation like that.
It really sounds to me that you prayed to God directly for guidance and answers, and he provided those for you.
That sounds great, but are you putting you personal relationship with God before Islamic teachings (as I understand them from previous posters)? And is that acceptable in Islam?

I hope you understand that I am not criticising you! I am just trying to explore how your views fit in with the views of others here.

Looking forward to hearing from you again! :thankyou:

peace.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Lol don't worry. No, I didn't know what the islamic ruling was. I didn't know that much about Islam at that time, so I made du'a. And afterwards I found out that i made the right decision. In case you're all wondering... i stopped hanging around with him!

 

[IceQueen~]

alhamdu lillah Allah guided you-may He always keep u guided, ameen!

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Ameen sis!

 

[NJUSA]

Ok so you say all this....but what does Islam say? I think we all know the answer to that and have gone through it. So I'll just leave it at that.

The Prophet (SAWS) and his companions (RA) conducted intergender commercial, religious, and social transactions. They did business, worshipped, and visited with one another. I know what people today say what "Islam says", but it doesn't entirely jibe with what the early Madinan community's praxis. For those who wish to part from the Madinan paradigm, that's their choice, but they lack moral authority to force it on others- which is an authority that lies within the Divine Prerogative.

 

[glo]

Lol don't worry. No, I didn't know what the islamic ruling was. I didn't know that much about Islam at that time, so I made du'a. And afterwards I found out that i made the right decision. In case you're all wondering... i stopped hanging around with him!

I think I had a senior moment then ...
Firstly I thought you were somebody else,
secondly I thought you were saying God told you it was okay to meet with this guy.
Got confused there ... :?

I still thing people are talking about two different things here.
Meeting secretly with a man, with the potential risk of the meeting developing into a physical relationship may be one thing - having contact with men in a professional or polite social context is another! Isn't it ???? :rollseyes

What if as a woman I go into a shop, and the only person around is the man behind the counter? Am I supposed to leave the shop again? Or not be out shopping alone in the first place?? To what extreme are you supposed to take this?

peace.

 

[Nawal89]

If there's a man at the behind the counter then theres no way you can help that can you? As long as you enter the shop with the intention of just getting your stuff and leaving. But if i saw that there is only one man behind the counter, and i'll be the only one in the shop with him, I'll leave. You dont know what could happen.

Also the Sahabah used to do business, sell goods, and i'm sure when you sell you dont sell to women only or women only. Mixing here means without a solid reason, just for fun, just for chat, or oh i didnt see him for soooo long and we used to be co workers yadda yadda. It'll be better if you can avoid mixing totally though. But some times its just not possible i guess..like on the bus..lol.