Moderate Muslims

[August]

As for Saddam, yes he was bad man and so are many other dictators in Muslim lands. But he is still Muslim ruling over Muslims.

Are you saying, in the hypothetical, that you would rather be ruled over by a cruel muslim than a wise and moral christian? For myself, I would rather live in a democracy with a muslim leader than live in a police state run by a christian.

 

[Cognescenti]

I don't believe in nationalism, that is another religion others can worship all they want. My countrymen are Muslims, regardless of what nationality or race they are. Their blood and my blood is one, their suffering and mine is one, we are one ummah (nation) pass territorial boundaries. Call it treason or call it what you want, i'm entitled to my believes and praying against the destruction of your enemies is far from anything that qualifies by law as treason.

No, it is not treason if you are not a US citizen. However, you might want to refrain from mentioning it near any US serviceman.....on second thought, it might be an interesting social experiment.

Regardless of what Bush says, this is a war on Islam and that is what 25 Muslims countries believe according to most recent polls.

Has anyone attacked you personally?

Besides, who is US to go across the world to overthrow someone like that? US has nukes and has used them as well, how the hell does it get the right to tell others they can't have nukes? And lets not forget this whole war was waged on faulty intelligent and lots of lies.

Well then, get at it man. Quit jawboning and go do something! Let the women and old men do the praying. I will spring for the duct tape so you can tape your hands to the steering wheel (in case your ardor fails you at a crucial time)

Quite possibly this post will fail a politeness test. I would only ask that the deliberately inflammatory comments of this nutbar in this thread be taken down as well.

 

[barney]

It's a list of horribly teneous half-links, where america "supported" various governements and revolutions that they beleived would be mutually supportive of america.

So a country acted in its own self interest. Nothing new there and i cant see the link to my comments. I have to say the list is very short, most people bring up a list of a hundred or more US forign policy decisions from not buying oil at a favorable rate, to robbing kosovo of Zinc or other idoitic claims.

The only US attack on Muslim nations in the last 50 years have been:
Sudan..15 cruise missiles...at a terrorist camp in response to the attack on the USS Cole
Afganistan. (umm refusing to hand over bin-liner)
91 Iraq: To liberate a muslim nation (kuwait)
03 Iraq: Partially Faulty intelligence, but which in the event removed one of the worlds most brutal dictators, which was supported by over 80% of the Iraqi people, and therefore was actually a liberation).

Take away the Cole attack, take away 9/11. No attacks would have occoured.

The US sells arms to Israel, (actually israel makes its own..the US just gives it money to protect itself). Thats the single biggest reason muslims hate America.

Without Americas money, Muslim nations think they can destroy Israel, despite having had 4 full blown attempts and getting caned each time.

Muslim dictatorships keep their people in a state of fear, they keep their power by methods such as from nursery school their people are taught that all the evils in the world are caused by "America". It used to be the USSR, because at least America recognised a god. The USSR had no god.
The people have a lot of anger...it needs directing. well direct it outwards. Wrap up your tin-pot oppressive tyranny in a religious sheen, blame your failing society on the west.

 

[Fishman]

Salaam,

Moderate muslim are the best of muslim,for theya re loved by the west

Moderate muslim support gay and leasbian and wishes for gay and lesbian to be imams.
Moderate muslim support the murder of muslim for oil/
Moderate muslima are those who say theya re muslim but campining for the destruction of the Quran.
Moderate muslim are those who speak of ill of fundamental muslim who follow the quran and sunnah.
Moderate muslim are those who attack tehir brothers and sister fro follwoing the quran and Sunnah.

They are the best "muslim" and lvoed by the west.

That's liberal Muslims, not moderates.

 

[islamirama]

Are you saying, in the hypothetical, that you would rather be ruled over by a cruel muslim than a wise and moral christian?

Muslims can't ever be ruled over by non-muslims no matter how moral or wise they are. Muslim country can only have a Muslim ruler and is the rule of Islam. As for a cruel ruler, well the prophet said this

"Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one. People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."

Muslims want good leaders not oppressors. The oppessors are being protected by US because without them US oil interest will be in a limbo. US put shah in power, he was a geocidial lunatic, look at what ppl did to him. They revolted in a revolution and forced him out of power. Look at what mushraf is facing right now, they want him out. There's others like egypt's president and royal family of saudi that are safe by US otherwise do you think they would still be in power?

Also, you said

For myself, I would rather live in a democracy with a muslim leader than live in a police state run by a christian.

You should look at around on this thread, see how many christians here want a war rather then be ruled over by Muslims, even if those are american converts only. As for you, you are already living in a police state, it's 1/2 there and 1/2 is left before it becomes total police state. How many more of your liberty rights will you give up to bush?

Many Muslim countries have shown an inability to rule themselves. The truth is, the U.S. must look after it's national interests. If a Muslim country such as Iraq or Afganistan is a threat to U.S. national security, then it is morally right to invade and occupy that country. If muslim nations are unable to live at peace with the rest of the world, then they cannot be allowed to rule themselves. I apply the same thing to any country, not just muslim ones.

As for what gives the U.S. the right. Two things. First, every country has a right to defend itself and it's legitimate national interests. Secondly, as the most powerful country in the world, the U.S. has a responsibility to try to create a better world.

Many Muslims countries continue live well and enjoy it (malaysia to name one) and these only countries that US has not meddled in. US does not have a puppet regime in place nor protects the evil dictators and their thrones.

US national interest is oil, it wants to keep US friendly regimes in power for that and if anyone doesn't become US friendly (saddam) then they are shown as hitler in the media and faulty intelligence is made to look real in their propaganda and then war is wage. And you US national security was not threatened by iraq or afghan, not from across the world. Do you honestly think they can attack US from all the way over there. As for 9-11, afghan had nothing to do with it except not turning over OBL without proof, which US failed to support. It is morally right for all those Muslims to fight US in any muslim country US presense and occupation is, it is their right by land, by life and by religion to defend themselves.

Every country has a right defend itself, but US has was not in any danger and 9-11, well the verdict is still out as to who the real cuplrit was on that. As for US creating a better world, only world it's creating is a dangerous world. Many countries, even US closest allies, have made statements that it's "war on terror" has made it a more dangerous world. US is far from creating it better world, it's rather the opposite. Do you think most Muslims feel safe in non-muslim countries now with anyone being able to be arrested on somenoe's mere "suspicion"? And how safe do you think americans feel in return when they go to muslim nations cuase of whattheir leaders are doing?

 

[NoName55]

I have Pakistani Nationality, I have served as a legally employed soldier, have brownish black skin color, also am from race/tribe. Am I to be excluded from being a Muslim now?

 

[vpb]

barney, were you on 'One Para' battalion ??

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I think i'm just going to close the thread, most of the posts aren't on topic anyway.