Most Muslims don’t know Islam

[Neelofar]

What has this turned into?!

p.s thinker, a woman who is dressed in full parda/jabaa compared to a woman who does not have her head covered, may actually know more about Islam than the lady who is wearing the correct Islamic attire, thus you cannot judge someone by how Islamic they 'look'. Peacee

 

[AhlaamBella]

Interesting thread of discussion, but how many of you actually watched the programme??
I actually know the family that were involved and a lot of the negative comments are way off the mark. Making a Will is not a simplistic step as some think, actually its a very complicated process usually requiring the assistance of people with specialised knowledge.
The programme is still available on BBC i-player for a few days so i would suggest that you watch it and then decide.
The dilemma for the couple was whether to take the Qur'an literally or to try and understand its context. I hope you all are able to know the importance of context and the dangers of isolating Quranic verses??

My husband and Mother-in-law watched it last night. My husband was very disappointed with the conclusion. He said the family began the programme by saying how Islam was their life, yet their concluding plan of action was very distant from the Islamic teachings, even the imam/scholar told them what they had decided goes against what they read. By husband was very put out as Dawah with his mother took a hit due to the family's actions.

And before anyone pounces on me, these are my husbands thoughts NOT mine. I was feeding the baby and only caught snippets of the programme and therefore don't feel qualified to give my own opinion on the family's actions. My opinion is only this: You cannot judge that Most Muslims Don't Know Islam by the way things were handled by ONE family on ONE programme.

 

[Zafran]

salaam

Just saw it you can watch it on Iplayer if you live in the UK - the parents were actually good muslims - they just didnt know about wills. They are by far not ignorant of Islam the way Thinker likes to bring it up - 70% people in the UK dont have wills when they die - clearly shows you that not knowing about wills is not just a muslim problem.
peace

 

[britpak69]

'even the imam/scholar told them what they had decided goes against what they read.'

There seems to be a misunderstanding as to who the scholar was in this programme?! I thought it was quite clear.
The scholar was not at the dinner table, that was a br who specialises in making Islamic Wills. The scholar was Prof Ramadan whom the couple met in the local Masjid.

 

[AhlaamBella]

'even the imam/scholar told them what they had decided goes against what they read.'

There seems to be a misunderstanding as to who the scholar was in this programme?! I thought it was quite clear.
The scholar was not at the dinner table, that was a br who specialises in making Islamic Wills. The scholar was Prof Ramadan whom the couple met in the local Masjid.

If you would please carefully read my above post I didn't actually watch the programme. So the expert in islamic wills said it not the imaam. I believe my point still stands. either way they seemed to have distanced from the teachings

 

[جوري]

Nonsense - of course you can! If I see a Muslim man with the fist long beard wearing the flowing robes I make a different judgement than the Muslims dressed in 'western' clothes.

Then you're out for a few shocks because some of us in 'western style' clothes are probably some of the staunchest Muslims.. we'll come at you in all shapes, colors, different cultures, and clothing style, so you're probably safer around a niqabi Muslimah than someone such as myself!
I think you're superficial and seek the superficial and expect the superficial so naturally that is what you'll get!

all the best!

 

[Dagless]

I just finished watching the program and am in complete disbelief at how inaccurate "thinker"'s comments were. In fact I would say it borders on deliberate lying. Let's go through the main points:

This ‘professional’ couple were shocked to discover that the Qur’an dictates that their assets should be split differently (as we here all know how).

I have been looking at Islam for only a couple of years and I encountered the inheritance question a long time ago so why did I know it and they didn’t?

Not only did the couple already know what was in the Quran but they THEMSELVES showed the presenter!!

That confirmed to me that most Muslims trundle along through life dressing like Muslims and doing what they do thinking they are Muslims but really don’t have a clue about Islam and what it teaches and dictates in terms of how they live their lives.

I obviously don't know the couple but I imagine most people would say they were a good Muslim couple. They seemed to know a great deal about their religion and had a real desire to practice it properly (masha'Allah).

At the end of the programme they sat round a dinner table, with their friends and family and an Imam. Their (Pakistani) parents and Imam told them that is they it must be (according to the Qur’an) and they and their friends pleaded - but we’re now in 21st century UK their must be another interpretation appropriate for the 21st century.

There was indeed an imam at the table but he did not speak during the show. The person you think was an imam was actually a solicitor who had dealings with sharia compliant wills. They did not plead either. Their friends made a few comments about how it shouldn't be applicable in todays world but the couple themselves were quite content to sit there listening.

And for those interested what was the outcome? They wheeled in another scholar who could provide them with a modified interpretation. (Again another thing I have often said, if scholar 'A' says it should be this way there will always be another scholar who says it should be that way).

Yes, because scholar A was not actually a scholar, he was a solictor! The scholar they "wheeled in" was Dr. Tariq Ramadan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ramadan)

The end result was:
- If one of them died, the house would be put in a trust so that the other could live there until either they sold it or died. At this point it would be divided up as per the Quran.
- The money would be split evenly between the children until they were adults. At this point the boy would be given twice the inheritance IF he agreed to the Islamic responsibilities which came with that.

This was agreed to be valid by Dr. Ramadan.
It may not have pleased everyone but it was far from what they wanted. It says a lot that they made the sacrifice for the sake of their religion. They could just as easily have done what they wanted.

I have long suspected that most Muslims have a very superficial understanding of Islam and this programme has confirmed it.

What say you?

I say that you sir, are a liar! and would encourage those who've read "thinker"'s rubbish to actually watch the program on iplayer. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Ramadhan]

I say that you sir, are a liar! and would encourage those who've read "thinker"'s rubbish to actually watch the program on iplayer. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

My mistake in not actually watching the program and just believed in his words.
This teach me not to take news from non-muslims at face value.

I was suggesting thinker to change his username to not_thinker, but maybe in light of this, it should be "not_thinker_as_well_as_a_liar"

 

[sabr*]

If a wicked person comes to you with any news!

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Surah Hujurat 49:6

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo in jaakum fasiqun binabain fatabayyanoo an tuseeboo qawman bijahalatin fatusbihoo AAala ma faAAaltum nadimeena

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]49:6 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
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[strevel]

So many of us are non Muslims. What are the requirements that you speak of for the separation of assets?

Than you,
Don

 

[Ramadhan]

So many of us are non Muslims. What are the requirements that you speak of for the separation of assets?

Can you clarify what you were asking?

 

[abjad]

I have long suspected that most Muslims have a very superficial understanding of Islam and this programme has confirmed it.

And you have seconded that confirmation //eh!!!

what i say
asalaam aleykum

Now be kind and help me (i have joined this forum on time)to learn what is Islam...

please am anxious to hear your valuable understanding of Islam...i see you are agnostic, but that is fair for me u know why Because i know where u are and what are Thinking....as comparing tho the hypocrite...u could (i mean to say there possibility)of lowering your chin and sincerely bow.
my English is not good so do think too much; but try to understand me.
thank you

 

[AhlaamBella]

I was suggesting thinker to change his username to not_thinker, but maybe in light of this, it should be "not_thinker_as_well_as_a_liar"

Unnecessary brother.

True, thinker has not... thought things through before posting. but i like to think that, as muslims, we correct him in a gracious manor and not use petty insults.

 

[abjad]

asalaam aleykum

I dont think that will make any good
none can change any ones nature, we have eyes, and hearts of course the picture 'speaks'
what will u tell me if that pic with palm holding that chin, thinking as...it could be my evolution is from human-as because humans say from me(i.e)that pic...
so one i had a debate similar with the so called be be see- and we came with agreement that...those who accept that our origin is from that pic, will hang a huge portrait similar the said pic and below note.........my great great great great great grand father... and it was agreed.

what we ought to try is at least convey him the message as what is "Islam"

 

[abjad]

The essentiality of knowledge for being a muslim

[FONT=&quot]THE ESSENTIALITY OF KNOWLEDGE FOR BEING A MUSLIM[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]The greatest favour of Allah[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Brethren-in-Islam![FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Every Muslim sincerely believes that the greatest boon of Allah in this world is Islam. He feels grateful to Him for having included him in the Ummah of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) and for having bestowed upon him the blessings of Islam. Allah Himself has reckoned this as His greatest boon to His servants as is mentioned in the Qur'an:[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]"This day have I perfected your deen (way of life) for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you Al-Islam as deen."[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot](Al-Qur'an 5:3)[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]Obligation for the favour[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]It is obligatory for you to render Allah His due because of the favour He has conferred on you. Whosoever does not render one his due for his favour, is an ungrateful person. And the worst possible ungratefulness on the part of man is to forget what he owes to God.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Now you may ask as to how can one render Allah His due for His favour to us? In reply I have to say that since Allah has included you in the Ummah of Muhammad (peace be on him) the best form of gratitude for this favour of His, is to become the sincere followers of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him). Since God has included you in the Muslim community the only way for you to reciprocate this kindness is to become full-fledged Muslims. In no other way can you render what is due to Allah for this immense favour by Him. And if you do not render this due, the punishment for this ungratefulness will be as great as is the favour of Allah. May Allah save all of us from this punishment! Amen.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]First step to become Muslim[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]After this you will ask: how can a man become a Muslim in the true sense of the term? The answer to this question requires adequate details and I shall deal with each and every part of it with full elucidation in my lectures on coming Fridays. But in today's address, I shall explain to you that point which is of primary importance and which can be termed as the first and foremost step in this direction.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]Is Muslim the name of a race?[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Please strain your mind to think as to what actually does the word Muslim, you use, signify?[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Does man bring Islam with him when he is born? Is a person Muslim because he is a son or grandson of a Muslim? Is a Muslim born as Muslim just as a Brahmin's son is born as Brahmin, or a Rajput's son as Rajput, or s Shudra's son as a Shudra? Is Muslim the name of a race or nation just as Englishmen? And just as a Jat is Jat because of being born in the Jat community, is a Muslim in the same way a Muslim for being born in a community which is called Muslim? What answers will you give to the questions, I have asked? You will surely reply: "No sir, such a man is not called Muslim. A Muslim is not a Muslim because of belonging to a particular racial group but because of accepting Islam, and if he renounces Islam, he ceases to be a Muslim. Any person who may be a Brahmin or a Rajput, an Englishman or a Jat, a Punjabi or a Negro, will be incorporated in the Muslim community on accepting Islam, while another person born in a Muslim home is expelled from the Muslim community if he gives up Islam, though he may be the son of a Sayyid or a Pathan".[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Well, gentlemen! you will surely give the above answer to my questions. So now this fact has been established from your own answer that the greatest boon of God i.e., the boon of your being a Muslim, which you enjoy, is not a racial asset which you automatically inherit from your parents and which clings to you mechanically all your life whether you bother about it or not, but that it is a boon for acquiring which you must make efforts. If you make an endeavour for it then you can acquire it and if you don't care for it, it can also be snatched away from you. May God forbid.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]Meaning of accepting Islam[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Now let us go ahead. You say that a man becomes Muslim by accepting Islam. The question is : What does the acceptance of Islam signify? Does it mean that whoever makes a verbal profession: "I am Muslim or I have accepted Islam", becomes a Muslim? Or does it mean that just as a Brahmin worshipper recites a few mantras of Sanskrit without understanding them, if in the same way a man utters some phrases of Arabic without understanding them, he then and there becomes Muslim? Now you may tell what reply will you give to this question. Naturally you will answer that the meaning of accepting Islam is that a man should consciously, and deliberately accept what has been taught by Muhammad (peace be upon him) and act accordingly. Whosoever does this, is a Muslim and whosoever does not do this, is not a Muslim.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]First requirement-knowledge[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]From this answer of yours the fact automatically comes to light that al-Islam is firstly the name of knowledge and then the name of putting that knowledge into practice. A man can be a Brahmin without having knowledge because he is born as a Brahmin and remains a Brahmin. So also a Jat can be Jat though he be bereft of knowledge because he is born as a Jat and remains a Jat all his life. But a man cannot become a Muslim without acquiring knowledge because he does not become a Muslim from birth but from knowledge. Unless he comes to know what is the teaching of Hazrat Muhammad (peace be upon him), how can he affirm faith in it and how can he act according to it? And if he has not affirmed faith knowingly and after full understanding of it, how can he become a Muslim? So it is clear that it is impossible to become a Muslim and remain a Muslim while in a state of ignorance. Whosoever is born in a Muslim home, bears a Muslim like name, dresses like a Muslim, and calls himself a Muslim, is in reality not a Muslim. But that person alone is a Muslim in the real sense who knows what Islam stands for and affirms faith in it with full consciousness. The real difference between a Kafir and a Muslim is not that of a name, that one is Ram Parshad and the other one is 'Abdullah, and so one is a Kafir and the other is a Muslim. Similarly, the real difference between a Kafir and a Muslim is not that of dress also, that one wears dhoti and the other pajamas, and so the former is a Kafir and the latter a Muslim. But the real difference between the two is that of knowledge. The one is a Kafir because he does not know what relation has God with him and what relation he was with God, and what is the right path for him to lead his life in the world in accordance with the wish of God. If a born Muslim too is ignorant in this respect, then tell me on what ground do you differentiate between him and a Kafir and why do you say that one is a Kafir and the other is a Muslim.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Gentlemen! Please listen carefully to the point I am stressing and reflect over it calmly. You must understand it thoroughly that to obtain or to be deprived of the greatest boon of Allah, on which you express thanks and gratefulness to Him, depends entirely on knowledge. If there is no knowledge, you cannot at all get this boon. Even if you have a little portion of it, then due to ignorance there is always the risk of losing the magnificent gift. The recipient, only due to simple-mindedness, will be under the impression that he is a Muslim while in fact he is not. The likeness of that person who is totally unaware of the difference between Islam and Kufr and the incongruity between Islam and Shirk, is as the likeness of one who is walking in darkness on a track. May be that while following a straight line his steps swerve to another path and he be unaware of this deviation from the right course. And it is also likely that he may meet a Dajjal on the way who may tell him: " O sonny! You have lost your way in darkness. Come, let me lead you to the destination". The poor wayfarer being enveloped in darkness cannot see with his own eyes as to which is the right path. Therefore unsophistically he will grasp the hand of Dajjal and the latter will lead him astray. These dangers are faced by the wayfarer for he very reason ha he himself does no possess any light and so is incapable of himself observing he road-marks. If he were endowed with light, he will obviously neither lose his way nor be led astray by another person. You may guess from this example that the greatest danger to a Muslim lies in his own ignorance of Islamic teaching and his unawareness of what the Qur'an teaches and what instructions were left by the Holy Prophet (peach be upon him). Due to lack of knowledge he will grope his way and will also be led astray by Dajjals. But if he is blessed with the light of knowledge he will be able to see the plain path of Islam at every step in his life, will discover and avoid the misleading paths of Kufr, Shirk, heresy and immorality, which will intercept him, and whenever an inveigler will meet him on the way he will realize after exchanging a few words with him that he is an evil force and so he should followed.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]Importance of knowledge[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Brethren! On this knowledge, the necessity of which I am explaining to you, depends yours and your children's being Muslims and remaining as Muslims. [/FONT]
...to be contuned...Insha ALLAH...
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[abjad]

Re: Most Muslims don’t know Islam/....IF THAT WILL HELP ..please.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Garamond, Times New Roman, Times]Importance of knowledge[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Brethren! On this knowledge, the necessity of which I am explaining to you, depends yours and your children's being Muslims and remaining as Muslims. This is not an ordinary thing which may be neglected. You do not show any carelessness in cultivating your land, in irrigating and protecting your crops, in supplying fodder to your cattle and in other work of your profession, simply because if you do so you will be starved to death and will lose a precious thing like life. Then tell me why do you show negligence in acquiring that knowledge on which depends your becoming a Muslim and remaining a Muslim. Does not this entail the danger of losing a precious thing like Iman? Is not Iman dearer than life? Out of the time and labour you spend on things which sustain your life, can you not spend one-tenth part of them on things which protect your Imam?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]I do not say that everyone of you should become a Maulvi, read voluminous books and spend ten to twelve years of your life in this pursuit. It is not necessary to read so much to become a Muslim. I only want this much that each one of you should spend only one hour out of the twenty-four hours of day and night in acquiring the knowledge of Deen. At least that much knowledge should be acquired by every Muslim youth, adult and old person as may enable him to understand the essence of the teaching of Qur'an and the purpose for which it was revealed. He should be able to clearly understand the mission of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) with which he came into this world. What was the wrong he wanted to be demolished and what was the right he wished to be established? He should also get acquainted with that particular mode of life which Allah has ordained for Muslims. Not much time is required to acquire this quantum of knowledge. And if Iman is dear to you, it is not so difficult to find one hour per day to acquire it.[/FONT]
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