Muslims, Student Loans, and Western Subjects

[Tariqa]

so can I take it that you ARE older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?

majority of the scholars are in agreement.. You think because you have heard some fatwa from some weak scholar, does that justify what you do?

Most of the scholars agree and there are only few that disagree. In islam the lone sheep must stick to the flock, or in this case the majority in islam is better than the minority... Many scholars do not understand the living conditions of many natons and they may issue fatwas out of ignorance... You cannot use one scholar and think that this is a justification.. It is incumbant upon the muslims to use their own intellect and allah will judge them on the doay of judgement for what they knew in their hearts and what they knew not...

 

[doorster]

its quite funny how many would try to justify it.. The worst excuse i hear today is that a degree is abosoultely nessasary in this world... A degree in no way guarentees you a job and there are many many people that survive without a degree. Its also funny that when people hear of a ruling they think that ruling applies to themselves... Even though alcohol is permissible to drink if on the brink of stravation, how many people have you ever heard of everyday that can say this is true for their situation?? Most if not all people ever has to go through these circumstances let alone magically have a glass f alcohol magically with them at the time of starvation... Many muslims are just way to unrealistic and make to many unnessary excuses...

yup right again, for example those taliban delegates who travelled to USA to negotiate access rights for America through Afghanistan to former Soviet countries, needed No education to reject American terms for they knew that they were helped by God to defeat Russia and not by CIA and Pakistan Army.

so they returned home then most of them along with Afghan public were promptly despatched to Paradise by America and its allies.

so you see illiteracy, stupidity, ignorance are no hindrance to committing communal suicide, attaining poverty, death and destruction for one's country.

 

[doorster]

majority of the scholars are in agreement.. You think because you have heard some fatwa from some weak scholar, does that justify what you do?

Most of the scholars agree and there are only few that disagree. In islam the lone sheep must stick to the flock, or in this case the majority in islam is better than the minority... Many scholars do not understand the living conditions of many natons and they may issue fatwas out of ignorance... You cannot use one scholar and think that this is a justification.. It is incumbant upon the muslims to use their own intellect and allah will judge them on the doay of judgement for what they knew in their hearts and what they knew not...

I am fast loosing my patience and jocular mood wont last for long o mighty scholar

PS. what is definition of hypocisy?

are you realy so dumb that you have the gall to call two of the best and most respected men, weak scholars? I could post a name of Muslim (who is banned from West) but I fear you will insult him because of your genuine ignorace or because you are a time wasting fraud

 

[aamirsaab]

I didn't need a student loan, cus I was awesome enough to obtain a scholarship and a government grant (which paid off my uni fees). Though, it wasn't exactly hard to obtain either one of them - for the grant I just didn't take out a student loan and for the scholarship I kicked academic @$$ in college. So in terms of student loans and financing further education, the halaal way is lit up like an x-mas tree (sorry, I have to fill a quota of corny and seasonal jokes)

Western subjects? Yeah I agree some courses are mickey mouse-like but that doesn't make them haram. Pointless maybe (cough film studies cough) but they are interesting at the very least and they do broaden your horizons about those particular areas. To outright call them haram is going a bit too far; it's not like there are subjects dedicated to the wonderful and magical properties of consuming pork and alcohol.

Oh and sociology is supposed to be a doss-lesson anyhow; you can actually blag your way through the course or so I am told.

 

[pious believer]

so can I take it that you ARE older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?

am not understanding ur point??
i dont see anything wrong with what i said?? "payed back original fee" if u didnt understand let me elaborate, my point was a student loan would had been fine if you only payed back the original fee, and no extra money (as this is interest=riba) and as long as you resolve to pay it back, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Whoever takes people wealth intending to pay it off, Allaah will help him to pay it off, but whoever takes it intending to use it up (without repaying), Allaah will destroy him. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2387).

I dont think its neccessary to have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani to understand the disadvantages of interest or what ever your point was.

 

[doorster]

am not understanding ur point??
i dont see anything wrong with what i said?? "payed back original fee" if u didnt understand let me elaborate, my point was a student loan would had been fine if you only payed back the original fee, and no extra money (as this is interest=riba) and as long as you resolve to pay it back, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Whoever takes people wealth intending to pay it off, Allaah will help him to pay it off, but whoever takes it intending to use it up (without repaying), Allaah will destroy him. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2387).

I dont think its neccessary to have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani to understand the disadvantages of interest or what ever your point was.

once again;


ARE you older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani and a better understanding of Quran than the editor of Ma'ariful Quraan and son of the author of the same?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?

since they clearly disagree with you, I need to know about your knowledge or lack thereof, to be able to see how you arrived at your fatwa/decree/opinion in so absolute terms

 

[pious believer]

once again;


ARE you older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani and a better understanding of Quran than the editor of Ma'ariful Quraan and son of the author of the same?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?

since they clearly disagree with you, I need to know about your knowledge or lack thereof, to be able to see how you arrived at your fatwa/decree/opinion in so absolute terms

am no scholar, just said what av read in the Quran and the Hadiths, and i would like to know, those scholars who u mentioned, their opinions..
jazakAllah kair.

 

[ardianto]

Student Loans


I want to ask other member.

What is Student Loan ?
Loan for what ? for pay college/university fee ?
Who give Student Loan ? Government ?

I know this is a silly question, but you know where I'm come from.

 

[pious believer]

Student Loans


I want to ask other member.

What is Student Loan ?
Loan for what ? for pay college/university fee ?
Who give Student Loan ? Government ?

I know this is a silly question, but you know where I'm come from.

well to go uni u need to pay a fees, people who cant afford it take out a student loan, which involves interest.

 

[doorster]

am no scholar, just said what av read in the Quran and the Hadiths, and i would like to know, those scholars who u mentioned, their opinions..
jazakAllah kair.

this should do to start with
http://www.islamicboard.com/educati...udent-loans-western-subjects.html#post1071319

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi was born in India in 1943, he received his early education at Aligarh Muslim University and Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama, Lucknow, India. Siddiqi graduated from the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia in 1965 with a higher degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies. He received an M.A. in Theology from Birmingham University in England and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Harvard University in the United States. He was once president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and he says:

"Like all other loans, Student loans are also permissible as long as they don't involve interest. However, if a student is in dire need to pursue his/her studies and no loans are available without interest, then in that case, under the rule of necessity, it will be permissible for the student to take the minimum loan and he/she should pay it back as soon as possible. This is of course, in the case when pursuing that field of education is also very important for the future of the Muslim student. But if a study is not necessary and it is only as a matter of enhancement of one's knowledge, then one should not take loans with interest."

 

[pious believer]

this should do to start with
http://www.islamicboard.com/educati...udent-loans-western-subjects.html#post1071319

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi was born in India in 1943, he received his early education at Aligarh Muslim University and Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama, Lucknow, India. Siddiqi graduated from the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia in 1965 with a higher degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies. He received an M.A. in Theology from Birmingham University in England and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Harvard University in the United States. He was once president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and he says:

This can only be applied to certian circumstances, not in every situation

 

[pious believer]

this should do to start with
http://www.islamicboard.com/educati...udent-loans-western-subjects.html#post1071319

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi was born in India in 1943, he received his early education at Aligarh Muslim University and Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama, Lucknow, India. Siddiqi graduated from the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia in 1965 with a higher degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies. He received an M.A. in Theology from Birmingham University in England and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Harvard University in the United States. He was once president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and he says:

Allah's Messenger (SAWS) cursed the accepter of interest and its payer, and one who records it, and the two witnesses; and he said: They are all equal. (Sahih Muslim)
Similar hadith narrated by Abdullah ibn Masud RA and recorded by Abu Daud.

Just wanted to know, are we still cursed if we plea that excuse on the day of judgement, that we were dire in need for the student loan?

 

[doorster]

Allah's Messenger (SAWS) cursed the accepter of interest and its payer, and one who records it, and the two witnesses; and he said: They are all equal. (Sahih Muslim)
Similar hadith narrated by Abdullah ibn Masud RA and recorded by Abu Daud.

Just wanted to know, are we still cursed if we plea that excuse on the day of judgement, that we were dire in need for the student loan?

oh deary me!

If you belong to mullah omar school what the hell are you doing in UK? should you not be moving to a land of milk and honey like Afghanistan, or North Pakistan with like-minded people, where they regularly burn bank or school workers and parents of girls who commit the sin of educating their daughters

 

[pious believer]

oh deary me!

If you belong to mullah omar school what the hell are you doing in UK? should you not be moving to a land of milk and honey like Afghanistan, or North Pakistan with like-minded people, where they regularly burn bank or school workers and parents of girls who commit the sin of educating their daughters

oh:
am an undergraduate student, i do believe we all, regardless of gender, should educate our selves, so how can u call me like minded like those ppl?? imsad
I was talking about RIBA not about if its ok for us to educate our selves!
its not my fault people cant work hard to pay for their uni fees, and they come up with lame excuses to obtain a student loan=RIBA
Maybe in life u havnt tried working hard, cos thats life, lazyness isnt gna get u anywhere! NO WONDER ur getting so agitated.

 

[Tariqa]

This can only be applied to certian circumstances, not in every situation

Sir i hate to take sides.. but i have already told this man in disagreement that what one scholar says does not always mean it is right..

i believe he is misinterpeting what his scholar he loves so much has said to the point where he is getting emotional..

What you are saying is what i am saying

Just because you can take intrest with a dire need does not mean that you qualify for the dire need

Many muslims may act like they are in dire need because they want a bigger house... A bigger house is not a nessecity.. It is very very rare to find anyone that actually needs a student loans because most places if not all has other systems of support...
This is why many scholars say that though there is a permission for usury, almost 99% of the times no one in todays age will not especially in the places that are wealthy...
The scholars all agree that there are many muslims today that take advantage of these permissions in great deal...

 

[ardianto]

well to go uni u need to pay a fees, people who cant afford it take out a student loan, which involves interest.

Thanks for your information, bro.
Do you know a Website where I can find more information about Student Loan (How to get loan, Is it Government program or not, How to pay, etc).
Of course, I will not take out a Student Loan from your place. I live in other country, and - Alhamdulillah - I have no problem with study fee.
There is no Student Loan in my place. That's why I want to know further information about Student Loan. I wish I can get some ideas, then sharing these ideas with other people in my place.
Many peoples in my place want to study in University. But, they cannot afford to pay study fees. Study fees is too expensive for them.
I hope, I can do something for help them.

 

[Tariqa]

I can give you some websites to learn how to avoid student loans.. i kind of kidding but the best thing for you in your case is to learn as much negitive thnigs about them as you can so that you would never be tempted to use one or give this information to someone who thinks this is acceptable..

 

[ardianto]

I can give you some websites to learn how to avoid student loans.. i kind of kidding but the best thing for you in your case is to learn as much negitive thnigs about them as you can so that you would never be tempted to use one or give this information to someone who thinks this is acceptable..

Is it for me ?

 

[Tariqa]

I just dont want you to learn what you dont know already and it falls in the wrong hands... You see many people become corrupt in this manner.. The scholars say that if a person is weak in faith he should not even learn these western subjects that teach haram things.. you must be strong in faith lest you fall for the temptations of what you are too weak to resist...

This is the same for anyone trying to learn bidah... it is best that a muslim stays away from the masjids of bidah lest they are too weak and fall for temtaption.. i hop you understand what i am saying..

 

[Anette]

Student Loans


I want to ask other member.

What is Student Loan ?
Loan for what ? for pay college/university fee ?
Who give Student Loan ? Government ?

I know this is a silly question, but you know where I'm come from.

I think different countries has different systems. A student loan is something you can live on during education in Sweden. You will get some money in Sweden for free - no loan - and if you need some more you can take a loan with a small interest. It is both to pay rent and then to buy books and bus tickets and so on. In Sweden the government has a special office that handles the loans and the benefits. In Sweden there are no fees in collage or university it's for free. But I think there are different systems.