Muslims urged to vote to keep out extremist parties

[Zafran]

The BNP are suggesting a cessation to all new immigration, the deportation of illegal aliens and legal ones with a criminal record, as well as providing "generous financial plans to help non-natives with their relocation".
What bothers me is that they are racist, my opposition o immigration is ideological.

yes racist they are but once again you bring them up so I'm not sure if you agree with them again?

generous financial plans to help non-natives with their relocation".

THis sounds................:scared:hew

 

[Whatsthepoint]

the last statemnet isnt vert christain

as i said before Multiculturalism doesnt have a goal - furthermore there is no such thing as "christain europe" - maybe some countries are if you could name them but most of the seem secular and dont want religion to play any role atleast in politics - By the way Nazism was allied with the pope in the concordat so it wasnt totaly anti christain as long as the chirstians kept religion out of politics.

See, thats' what I'm trying to protect, a secular Europe, where everyone can live their lives tehy way they want.

 

[Zafran]

Because Muslims are the biggest as well as the fastest growing minority in Europe, because a significant percentage desires the introduction of shariah law in Europe, because the quran says Europe will be Muslim and radicals are braging about it.
Basically, Muslims are the only ones that are a potential threat to the European culture, liberal politics, as well as your ebloved multiculturalism. ahve you ever aksed yourself whether how an Islamic state treats other cultures?

There seems to be a mistake with the bold - the Quran does not say that????

There is no such thing as a Islamic state - thats a very modern term - there is Islamic governanace and other cultures can live with there own law, customs and "liberal politics" within the Islamic Shariah - You have seen the past ex Ottoman places are still heavily christain so is spain. - so pro Multicultralism

 

[Zafran]

European culture

what is this all about???

 

[Whatsthepoint]

There seems to be a mistake with the bold - the Quran does not say that????

There is no such thing as a Islamic state - thats a very modern term - there is Islamic governanace and other cultures can live with there own law, customs and "liberal politics" within the Islamic Shariah - You have seen the past ex Ottoman places are still heavily christain so is spain.

It says Rome but many interpret it as Europe.
Only for Christians and Jews, and even if its other people as well, minorities have different rights than Muslims.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

what is this all about???

the sum of cultures in Europe, as well as secularism, democracy, liberalism etc.

 

[Zafran]

It says Rome but many interpret it as Europe.
Only for Christians and Jews, and even if its other people as well, minorities have different rights than Muslims.

No it doesnt not in the Quran

and no not only Jews and christians other faiths such as Hindus, Zorastrians, Buddhaists and all the other religions - Mugal India a good exmaple most are still hindus in India - what do you mean by different rights??

 

[Whatsthepoint]

No it doesnt not in the Quran

and no not only Jews and christians other faiths such as Hindus, Zorastrians, Buddhaists and all the other religions - Mugal India a good exmaple most are still hindus in India - what do you mean by different rights??

Hadith then.
Yes, you're right, though I'm not sure whether the inclusion of those was pragmatic or absed on Islam. Anway, there's a ahdith that says a vast region in Arabia should be Islamic only, so its not equal for eevryone, definitely not multiculturalism. different rights, such as they can't build new religiosu objects, can't preach their faith publically etc, there's also good sides, for instance lower taxes.

 

[Woodrow]

After reading the past few posts and learning a bit more about the BNP and it's supporters. I believe it is highly justifiable for the Muslims in the UK to do what is necessary to prevent the BNP from gaining power and at this point the best weapon to stop them is for Muslims to vote enmasse for any opposition party.

 

[doorster]

Hadith then.
Yes, you're right, though I'm not sure whether the inclusion of those was pragmatic or absed on Islam. Anway, there's a ahdith that says a vast region in Arabia should be Islamic only, so its not equal for eevryone, definitely not multiculturalism. different rights, such as they can't build new religiosu objects, can't preach their faith publically etc, there's also good sides, for instance lower taxes.

need clear, concise allegation/charges with references, in order to be able to respond correctly!

 

[Amadeus85]

the last statemnet isnt vert christain

as i said before Multiculturalism doesnt have a goal - furthermore there is no such thing as "christain europe" - maybe some countries are if you could name them but most of the seem secular and dont want religion to play any role atleast in politics - By the way Nazism was allied with the pope in the concordat so it wasnt totaly anti christain as long as the chirstians kept religion out of politics.

I disagree with all the statements.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

need clear, concise allegation/charges with references, in order to be able to respond correctly!

All I'm saying is that an islamic state is not multicultural thy way modern Britain is.

 

[Zafran]

Hadith then.
Yes, you're right, though I'm not sure whether the inclusion of those was pragmatic or absed on Islam. Anway, there's a ahdith that says a vast region in Arabia should be Islamic only, so its not equal for eevryone, definitely not multiculturalism. different rights, such as they can't build new religiosu objects, can't preach their faith publically etc, there's also good sides, for instance lower taxes.

Arabia - there are no minorities there and why would they want to go in the middle of the desert of arabia and live there?

exactly there are good sides. You can have religious debates and try to convert that way - but not what the missionrioes do. I'm also sure that religious places can only be built where religoius people live - theres no point building a religious place in arabia when nobody goes there? there rea over 10 million coptic christains in Egypt and Jews in Yemen and Iran would you believe and they have there own religious places.

 

[Zafran]

All I'm saying is that an islamic state is not multicultural thy way modern Britain is.

what about like the Ottoman empire - where many sects, religions and nationlaities lived and were heavily tolerated through the Millet system. No there is no such thing as Islamic state only Islamic Governance.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Arabia - there are no minorities there and why would they want to go in the middle of the desert of arabia and live there?

exactly there are good sides. You can have religious debates and try to convert that way - but not what the missionrioes do. I'm also sure that religious places can only be built where religoius people live - theres no point building a religious place in arabia when nobody goes there? there rea over 10 million coptic christains in Egypt and Jews in Yemen and Iran would you believe and they have there own religious places.

There always have been non-Muslims in Arabia, at least they are now and were before the rise of Islam. But the ahdith does say there shouldn't be any. Non-Muslim religious objects can only be renovated and no new ones built and I think it's illegal to try to convert Muslims, I'm not sure.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

what about like the Ottoman empire - where many sects, religions and nationlaities lived and were heavily tolerated through the Millet system. No there is no such thing as Islamic state only Islamic Governance.

I'm certain the ottoman islamic governance didn't sponsor diversity programmes and non-Muslim dawah stalls weren't allowed.

 

[doorster]

There always have been non-Muslims in Arabia, at least they are now and were before the rise of Islam. But the ahdith does say there shouldn't be any. Non-Muslim religious objects can only be renovated and no new ones built and I think it's illegal to try to convert Muslims, I'm not sure.

again, as before, I ask you to post them

 

[Zafran]

I'm certain the ottoman islamic governance didn't sponsor diversity programmes and non-Muslim dawah stalls weren't allowed.

No but as i said Debates are allowed and the Islamic Governace can and has tolerated multiculturalism and diversity for over 1000 years in History - as bro Dorster said produce the hadiths about arabia?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

again, as before, I ask you to post them

Book 019, Number 4366:

It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Volume 3, Book 39, Number 531:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Umar expelled the Jews and the Christians from Hijaz. When Allah's Apostle had conquered Khaibar, he wanted to expel the Jews from it as its land became the property of Allah, His Apostle, and the Muslims. Allah's Apostle intended to expel the Jews but they requested him to let them stay there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits. Allah's Apostle told them, "We will let you stay on thus condition, as long as we wish." So, they (i.e. Jews) kept on living there until 'Umar forced them to go towards Taima' and Ariha'.

 

[Zafran]

Book 019, Number 4366:

It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Volume 3, Book 39, Number 531:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Umar expelled the Jews and the Christians from Hijaz. When Allah's Apostle had conquered Khaibar, he wanted to expel the Jews from it as its land became the property of Allah, His Apostle, and the Muslims. Allah's Apostle intended to expel the Jews but they requested him to let them stay there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits. Allah's Apostle told them, "We will let you stay on thus condition, as long as we wish." So, they (i.e. Jews) kept on living there until 'Umar forced them to go towards Taima' and Ariha'.

what books so we can check them?