News 4m Pakistan

[Qingu]

the problem in Pakistan is there is a long history of people that did not want Pkistan to be formed in 1947 and have been hard at work trying to undo the Partioning of 1947. Any cause of turmoil, can be seen as a possible opening to bring that about. Then there has been the long tension with India. I doubt if India wants all of Pakistan, but it seems they want at least part of it. Along with Iran having long looked at getting old territory back any disunity within the country can be all that is needed.


Separatist movements from within the country would render the nuclear stock pile useless and just be an added expense for the country. It has been a deterrent to keep India out, but if there is a movement from within, the nukes will be of no use.

Also add in that the army is now tied up with internal affairs and will be hard pressed to handle an invasion from Iran.

When was the last time a country successfully expanded its boundaries through military action?

 

[ahsan28]

Countrywide protests, killings and arson


At least 27 people were killed and many wounded in violence during a nationwide outpouring of grief and a protest strike over Benazir Bhutto’s assassination while army was deployed in 16 districts of Sindh and paramilitary forces elsewhere in the country.

But protests at several places turned violent, with demonstrators attacking and burning both public and private properties, mostly in Sindh where 17 people were reported killed in Karachi and 10 in eight towns in other parts of the province.

SINDH: In Karachi, seven workers were burnt to death after a factory was set on fire. Two policemen were also killed. Hospitals received eight bodies with gunshot wounds. Over 400 vehicles and 18 banks were burnt in the city since Thursday night.

Government properties, banks, private vehicles, gas and petrol stations, telephone exchanges were prime targets of attackers in every district.

NWFP: In the NWFP, enraged protesters set a police post and railway station on fire at Taru Jabba, near Peshawar, snatched guns from police and also set ablaze two official motorcycles at the police post.

BALOCHISTAN: In Balochistan, a railway station, several banks and other public and private buildings were set on fire as riots erupted in some areas of the province.

Sources said a group of protesters attacked Dera Allahyar railway station and torched it. They also burnt down the office of Nadra, the district office of Excise and Taxation and PML election office and attacked a bank branch, the office of District Police Officer and Civil Hospital but law-enforcement agencies did not allow them to enter these buildings.

Riots were also reported in Dera Murad Jamali where protesters burnt a bank branch and destroyed the official vehicle of a senior police officer.

29 Dec 2007

http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/29/top2.htm

 

[ahsan28]

I personally suspect that those currently using the name Taliban will assume control of those districts. It seems that the majority of the people there consider themselves Afghani anyhow. So that will not be a significant change. More just a redoing the maps.

Yes Iran did control much of Pakistan in the past and I believe they do still consider it their land. I suspect there are many Iranian supporters in Pakistan.

That is the point, ordinary Pakistanis don't understand. Majority considers them mujahideen, warriors and their heroes, not realising that Pakistan is not under occupation by any attacker, rather these so-called champions of Islam are involved in beheadings and suicidal blasts, thus killing their own fellow Muslims. So to assume that these fake heroes are doing jihad is no less than absurdity.

I don't think Iran will intervene militarily, like we have all the chances of Indian aggression, as they did in 1971. Iran though has its own axe to grind on sectarian grounds and they are quite expert at exploiting the situation, using sectarianism as a tool.

Iranian supporters (shia) are only 20% in Pakistan.

 

[snakelegs]

Government properties, banks, private vehicles, gas and petrol stations, telephone exchanges were prime targets of attackers in every district.

sounds quite organized to me.

 

[Woodrow]

That is the point, ordinary Pakistanis don't understand. Majority considers them mujahideen, warriors and their heroes, not realising that Pakistan is not under occupation by any attacker, rather these so-called champions of Islam are involved in beheadings and suicidal blasts, thus killing their own fellow Muslims. So to assume that these fake heroes are doing jihad is no less than absurdity.

I don't think Iran will intervene militarily, like we have all the chances of Indian aggression, as they did in 1971. Iran though has its own axe to grind on sectarian grounds and they are quite expert at exploiting the situation, using sectarianism as a tool.

Iranian supporters (shia) are only 20% in Pakistan.

In a country that is made up of many separate factions, a group consisting of 20% can easily be the largest single group. Here in the USA for example, the African-American population is only 13.4%(source: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html) of the total population, yet they have made a huge impact and changes (for the better) just in my life time. So 20% is a very large percentage if it is organized.

Or to put it in perspective by numbers that means there are 39 million African-Americans living in the entire USA, While in Pakistan roughly twice the size of Texas there are 36 Million Iran supporters. That is a lot of people and if organized can control the country.

 

[Woodrow]

When was the last time a country successfully expanded its boundaries through military action?

Several times in my life time. Some examples North Viet-Nam, Russia, Germany, Japan, Israel,

 

[Qingu]

Several times in my life time. Some examples North Viet-Nam, Russia, Germany, Japan, Israel,

Wow, how old are you?

I think the landscape of the world today is very different than it was during the Vietnam War, and the time of America's and the USSR's misadventures in empire-building. Maybe I'm just being young and naive, but I don't think a country could successfully expand its borders anymore. People are too good at resisting occupation, and all the recent wars have set such high precedents for native resistance. I don't think any country would be eager to engage in a war of occupation after looking at Vietnam and Iraq. Also, the world community today is far less sympathetic to territory-expanding wars than they were even a few decades ago.

I could definitely be wrong, though, I just don't think it's likely today.

 

[Woodrow]

Wow, how old are you?

I'll be 68 in 7 months.

I think the landscape of the world today is very different than it was during the Vietnam War, and the time of America's and the USSR's misadventures in empire-building. Maybe I'm just being young and naive, but I don't think a country could successfully expand its borders anymore.

we thought that at the end of WWII, and Korea. We almost saw it happen in the 1980's when Iraq invaded Iran. Again when Iraq invaded Kuwait in the 1990s.

We have been watching it happen almost daily with Israel constantly taking over Palestinian territory, with Palestine now being only about 1/2 what it was in 1947 and down to about 1/8 what it was before 1946.

People are too good at resisting occupation, and all the recent wars have set such high precedents for native resistance. I don't think any country would be eager to engage in a war of occupation after looking at Vietnam and Iraq.

Here is a listing of the current wars taking place and the starting dates of each. Korea may come as a surprise, but a state of war still exists between North and South Korea.

Current Conflicts
Algeria Insurgency 1992 -->
Angola Cabinda 1975 -->
Burma Insurgency 1950 -->
China Senkaku Islands 1968 -->
China Spratly Islands 1988 -->
Colombia Insurgencies 1970s-->
Congo (Zaire) Congo War 1998-->
Georgia Civil War 1991-->
India Assam 1985 -->
India Kashmir 1970s-->
India Naxalite Uprising 1967 -->
Indonesia Aceh 1986 -->
Indonesia Kalimantan 1983 -->
Indonesia Maluku 1999 -
Indonesia Papua / West Irian 1963 -->
Israel Al-Aqsa Intifada 2000 -->
Israel Lebanon 2006 -->
Ivory Coast Civil War 2002 -->
Korea Korean War 1953 -->
Laos Hmong Insurgency 2000 -->
Moldova Transdniester 1991-->
Namibia Caprivi Strip 1966-->
Nepal Maoists 1996 -->
Nigeria Civil Disturbances 1997 -
Pakistan Baluchistan 2004 -
Palestine Civil War 2007-->
Peru Shining Path 1970s-->
Philippines Moro Uprising 1970s-->
Russia Chechen Uprising 1992 -->
Somalia Civil War 1991-->
Spain Basque Uprising 1970s-->
Sri Lanka Tamil Separatists 1983 -->
Sudan Darfur 1983 -->
Thailand Islamic Rebels 2001 -->
Turkey Kurdistan 1984 -->
Uganda Civil Conflict 1980 -->
United States Afghanistan 1980 -->
United States Djibouti 2001 -->
United States Iraq 1990 -->
United States Philippines 1898 -->
Uzbekistan Civil Disturbances 2005 -->
Yemen Sheik al-Houti 2004 -->

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/index.html

Also, the world community today is far less sympathetic to territory-expanding wars than they were even a few decades ago.

Nobody seems to pay much attention to the world community.

I could definitely be wrong, though, I just don't think it's likely today.

today is probably the ideal time. Public opinion will keep the USA limited from being involved. A national Election is upon us, the candidates will want to avoid any foreign conflicts and be very much against supporting any conflicts. Many countries are too involved in their own affairs, than to become involved. I suspect both India and Iran are very much aware that this is a very rare moment for them to make their moves and such an opportunity may never happen again.

 

[Yanal]

It's sad enought for people that Banazi Bhutoo died and now people can starve to death what's the use of people doing this destruction it won't make Bhutoo come back instead it will make them have sins i wish MR.Mussharaf said this to the people.

 

[snakelegs]

hi yanal - haven't seen you around for a while, welcome back.
it is tragic - and scary.
i don't know why the heads of the PPP (if it's really them who are doing the rioting) do not call on the people to stop this senseless violence. are they trying to destroy the country? to hand the americans the excuse to come in? have they all gone insane?

 

[Yanal]

Snakelegs
Thanks and who will attack on a important politic and in the news they show the clip and the person is infront of the security and shoots the security does nothing. And i know who is behind this Musharraf because he is the only politic who will get something out of Benazir's death because Nawar Shari was with Bhutoo so why would he kill and for some odd reason i don't even like Musharraf.

 

[snakelegs]

as may well be in all political assasinations, there are a lot of questions about this one, which may never be fully answered.
first it was reported that she was killed by a bomb.
later it was said that though there was a bomb too, she was shot to death
next day gov't says she died from hitting her head while ducking
one of the women who washed her body said there were gunshot wounds.
dawn tv has released these images.
from the images it looks like there was no security at all. you can see the guy (with the dark glasses) and the gun (in the 2nd one)
the 3rd one shows the guy leaving and people ducking

link
http://epaper.dawn.com/

 

[Omar_Mukhtar]

If the picture shows that a man took shots and then left; then it raises serious questions about the suicide bomber theory. Now some are saying that there were two people, ie a sniper and suicide bomber, which is probably bull. The suicide bomber could have ended up taking the sniper with him.Plus if it was Alqaeda, one would have expected them to claim responsibility and release a tribute to the "martyr". But we'll probably never know. Although to me, this looks like an organised and efficiently planned political assisination. Whereby the professional sniper took shots and has he was leaving... a hidden bomb exploded to create chaos and give the impression that sum 1 had blown themselves up, giving the sniper enough to get away. Had he just took gunshots, then the getaway might have been slightly more difficult!

 

[snakelegs]

the bomber is said to be the guy with the head covering right behind the assasin.
the earlier report that al-qaeda claimed credit, was from a pakistani gov't source report on a recorded phone message.
al-qaeda has denied responsibility.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22985260-5005961,00.html
AL-QAEDA linked Pakistani militant Baitullah Mehsud was not involved in the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, his spokesman said.

"He had no involvement in this attack," Mehsud's spokesman Maulvi Omar said by telephone from an undisclosed location.

"This is a conspiracy of the Government, army and intelligence agencies," he said.

"I strongly deny it. Tribal people have their own customs. We don't strike women." (sic)

for the rest of the article, click on the link.

the government has offered to exhume her body if requested.

here's a video of the shooting
http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/v.../skynews/latest/flash/gunshot_291207_1225.flv

 

[snakelegs]

Interior ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said rioting across the country had destroyed 176 banks, 72 train cars and 18 railway stations, while at least 100 prisoners had been sprung from jails.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7164138.stm

 

[AmarFaisal]

u guys have put up some really important images n videos here :thumbs_up

 

[AmarFaisal]

PPP has announced Benazir's son and husband as the new chairpersons of the party.
I feel sad for the son who is being dagged into all of this. I just hope he goes abroad n finishes his studies.

 

[ahsan28]

PPP has announced Benazir's son and husband as the new chairpersons of the party.
I feel sad for the son who is being dagged into all of this. I just hope he goes abroad n finishes his studies.

Its always the innocent, who are dragged into the dirty game called politics, on one pretext or the other.

 

[snakelegs]

the questions remain, and maybe always will.
her husband will not allow an autopsy.
here's another video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQOGoaDU3qc

 

[KAding]

I don't really see the relevance of the exact cause of death? The videos clearly show she was shot at and she was mere meters away from an explosion that seemingly originates at the shooter. Who cares whether she died from bumping her head because of the explosion, from shrapnel or from the bullets?