Objective Evidence For Islam

[GreyKode]

Share with us what evolution says about humans

 

[جوري]

Getting back on topic, Gossamer skye, you're speaking with such confidence that the qu'ran is true, but when I question it, all you do is try to say that I haven't read the qu'ran.

You haven't brought anything substantial to the table to discuss. short of saying I disagree, I have used the analogy of Shakespearean plays not being written by Shakespeare you asserted I'd need to read it to know -- well in fact there are several theories circulating on the actual authorship of his work some contending them to be the works of Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe, William Stanley to name a few.
It appears simple enough, indeed I can even manage a pshaww, it seems to me the burden of proof would lie on the one making the allegations.. no?

further, I can tell you haven't out of your ignorance of simple things that are common knowledge to most Muslims!

As for the point about evolution, it does contradict the qu'ran in a few ways, such as it's story of creation in a few days and that Adam and Eve (I know the names are a bit different, like adamalaysalam) were the firs two created.

again, if you have in fact read the Quran you'd know that days by God's measure aren't equal to ours, as well the beginning two lines of suret al'insan simply denote we might not even be the most important beings of creation..

Now other than that I have told you that you are free to prove evolution as a testable non theoretical fact, given the competing theories on the origin of the things, even though the start point itself is already based on an apriori judgment, I'd be willing to forgo minute detail, if you'd take that first primordial goo and give me a human at the end.. Does that sound fair?


all the best

 

[IHaveADream]

You haven't brought anything substantial to the table to discuss. short of saying I disagree, I have used the analogy of Shakespearean plays not being written by Shakespeare you asserted I'd need to read it to know -- well in fact there are several theories circulating on the actual authorship of his work some contending them to be the works of Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe, William Stanley to name a few.

Ok, well Shakespeares plays don't claim that you will suffer eternal ****ation if you don't do what they say, so most people will overlook the controversial background knowledge, while the qu'ran does and yet does not provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm sure if the qu'ran didn't say you would go to hell without following it, most people wouldn't even care to scrutinize it.

 

[IHaveADream]

again, if you have in fact read the Quran you'd know that days by God's measure aren't equal to ours

This is basically the same manipulation of script used by any creationist debater. Sorry, but you can't keep moving the goalpost by interpreting something differently as it gets proved wrong. Anyways, if God is writing this book for humans, why would he put it to us in this way, to purposely confuse us into not believing him.

Also, you didn't address my point about Adam and Eve.

 

[IHaveADream]

it seems to me the burden of proof would lie on the one making the allegations.. no?

Obviously you can't comprehend irony, so let me just ask you how would you prove the allegation that islam is true

Now other than that I have told you that you are free to prove evolution as a testable non theoretical fact, given the competing theories on the origin of the things, even though the start point itself is already based on an apriori judgment, I'd be willing to forgo minute detail, if you'd take that first primordial goo and give me a human at the end.. Does that sound fair?

Not exactly fair, considering the vast amount of explanations that go into getting this message across to someone who will obviously ignore it anyways. Second of all, I don't see how competing theories would prove islam right as most scientists would agree that creationism is no competing theory in science.

 

[GreyKode]

This is basically the same manipulation of script used by any creationist debater. Sorry, but you can't keep moving the goalpost by interpreting something differently as it gets proved wrong. Anyways, if God is writing this book for humans, why would he put it to us in this way, to purposely confuse us into not believing him.

I assume youre talking about the days issue.
I just want to ask you what is the arabic word for day?

 

[IHaveADream]

I assume youre talking about the days issue.
I just want to ask you what is the arabic word for day?

Youm

 

[IHaveADream]

And yes I am aware that muslims interpret this as a vague number of years, however, this goves no real information and only allows them to deflect criticism

 

[جوري]

Ok, well Shakespeares plays don't claim that you will suffer eternal ****ation if you don't do what they say, so most people will overlook the controversial background knowledge, while the qu'ran does and yet does not provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm sure if the qu'ran didn't say you would go to hell without following it, most people wouldn't even care to scrutinize it.

That is funny, even funnier than the two guys who double parked in front of me today to exchange numbers right before I got into the FDR drive but I digress..

let's see
1- Do all monotheistic religions D*** you to hell? I'd say strangely enough, if you don't believe that Jesus self-immolated the night before he prayed to himself to eat your sins then you according to Christianity are going to hell -- so why am I not seeing another thread for objective evidence for Christianity? we have quite the substantial christian population here -- That is in fact if that is all there was to religion. Same for Judaism by the way but given that Jews are less than Sikhs I'll consider their religious views negligible for our purposes!

2- If you don't believe in it, I don't see how it could possibly affect you?
surely you are not writing here with the the same attitude as say some of the members on the discover Islam section, in other words, it appears to most of us, that you've already done your research and made up your mind, in which case I don't see how anyone can meet with your definition of 'objective' -- to choose anyway for life is to have bias.. it isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is simply a partiality that prevents you from doing just that 'keeping objective'

3-Everything comes with some measure of doubt, the focus is, how does does arguing in favor of one side benefit you? If in fact you were able to prove your position beyond a reasonable doubt as an atheist than you'll have put to rest all that talk of religion.. so far none of you were able to accomplish that.. atheists as well a negligible percentage of the population.. in other words, out of the millions of sheep and herds following blindly must be a handful of scholars who still choose to remain theists in spite of atheist objectivity. .. could it possibly be that atheists aren't as objective nor scientific as they like to fancy themselves?

4- There is much more to religion than the ****ation of hell, as according to Islam Allah swt has assigned to himself the law of grace and mercy from which he parted one percent for this world and 99% for the hereafter, so how could you possibly speak of eternal d******** when a mere one percent have parted so much splendor.. (perhaps that is too esoteric for someone who doesn't believe in God all together) but by same token hell and its abyss shouldn't either..

5- I think you concern yourself too much with the affairs of Muslims, given your previous comments.. honestly if I were an atheist, I'd not waste so much time hanging around religious folks.. I'd eat life up.. you only live once, and if you should die chocking on a chicken bone as did my brother's poor neighbor though he has two youg kids, or my dear friend who suddenly collapsed, then what will you have to show for it? You have neither enjoyed it for what it is, nor have you spent wisely for a hereafter even if just to chance it...

I say, go in peace, make friends, have a life and don't worry too much about Muslims or Islam..

all the best

 

[جوري]

And yes I am aware that muslims interpret this as a vague number of years, however, this goves no real information and only allows them to deflect criticism

how is it vague exactly if it is so mentioned in the Quran? It is a package deal (oh read one), other than that, i think you have a thing or two to learn about proper critique!
There is more to it, than saying I find it objectionable!

So far you strike us as one angry dude who is disenchanted with Islam but can't get a grip on his gripe...


all the best

 

[IHaveADream]

That is funny, even funnier than the two

1- Do all monotheistic religions D*** you to hell? I'd say strangely enough, if you don't believe that Jesus self-immolated the night before he prayed to himself to eat your sins then you according to Christianity are going to hell -- so why am I not seeing another thread for objective evidence for Christianity? we have quite the substantial christian population here -- That is in fact if that is all there was to religion. Same for Judaism by the way but given that Jews are less than Sikhs I'll consider their religious views negligible for our purposes!

Well, this is an Islamic website, so my first assumption would be that if I made a thread asking for evidence for Christianity, I would get no reply.

 

[IHaveADream]

2- If you don't believe in it, I don't see how it could possibly affect you?
surely you are not writing here with the the same attitude as say some of the members on the discover Islam section, in other words, it appears to most of us, that you've already done your research and made up your mind, in which case I don't see how anyone can meet with your definition of 'objective' -- to choose anyway for life is to have bias.. it isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is simply a partiality that prevents you from doing just that 'keeping objective'

This is just a silly question, Islam, as well other religions, makes it mark on the entire globe, from it being used as justification for despicable acts to its divisive nature as a whole. Obviously you know what I'm talking about here.

Second the only reason I wrote "objective" is so that no one writes some stupid comment like "I can feel his presence"

 

[IHaveADream]

3-Everything comes with some measure of doubt, the focus is, how does does arguing in favor of one side benefit you? If in fact you were able to prove your position beyond a reasonable doubt as an atheist than you'll have put to rest all that talk of religion.. so far none of you were able to accomplish that.. atheists as well a negligible percentage of the population.. in other words, out of the millions of sheep and herds following blindly must be a handful of scholars who still choose to remain theists in spite of atheist objectivity. .. could it possibly be that atheists aren't as objective nor scientific as they like to fancy themselves?

Science has proven the falsehoods of religion, however it takes a level of knowledge to understand the facts so the majority of people growing up in an environment in which they are indoctrinated at a young age will not be able to comprehend.

As for your comments about sheep following the herd, it is completely laughable as easily 98% of religious people blindly follow their faith as they are taught it.

 

[IHaveADream]

4- There is much more to religion than the ****ation of hell, as according to Islam Allah swt has assigned to himself the law of grace and mercy from which he parted one percent for this world and 99% for the hereafter, so how could you possibly speak of eternal d******** when a mere one percent have parted so much splendor.. (perhaps that is too esoteric for someone who doesn't believe in God all together) but by same token hell and its abyss shouldn't either..

I think you are missing the point, the qu'ran threatens hell if you don't accept it as truth. Quite a heavy allegation with so little ammount of proof.

 

[جوري]

This is just a silly question, Islam, as well other religions, makes it mark on the entire globe, from it being used as justification for despicable acts to its divisive nature as a whole. Obviously you know what I'm talking about here.

Second the only reason I wrote "objective" is so that no one writes some stupid comment like "I can feel his presence"

you mean despicable acts like those committed by Enver Hoxha? Mao Xedong, Sung I1, Lenin, Saloth Sar etc etc.?
Isn't it amazing what a few atheists can do in a few yrs, that religions and plagues alike haven't in their centuries of existence?


Also, you desire objectivity from people, yet have no courtesy to meet them half way through or offer the same with such asinine comments as you have just made above.. Are you too good to be true or just under-educated about world history?

all the best

 

[IHaveADream]

5- I think you concern yourself too much with the affairs of Muslims, given your previous comments.. honestly if I were an atheist, I'd not waste so much time hanging around religious folks.. I'd eat life up.. you only live once, and if you should die chocking on a chicken bone as did my brother's poor neighbor though he has two youg kids, or my dear friend who suddenly collapsed, then what will you have to show for it? You have neither enjoyed it for what it is, nor have you spent wisely for a hereafter even if just to chance it...

Well, what can I say, I am willing to help my fellow deluded man.

 

[جوري]

I think you are missing the point, the qu'ran threatens hell if you don't accept it as truth. Quite a heavy allegation with so little ammount of proof.

No, I am not at all missing the point.. you are however on multiple levels and I really do have better things to do with the rest of this evening...

nonetheless, I wish you all the best, and hope another person more patient than myself takes over since I bore quite easily with recycled platitudes!


all the best

 

[IHaveADream]

you mean despicable acts like those committed by Enver Hoxha? Mao Xedong, Sung I1, Lenin, Saloth Sar etc etc.?
Isn't it amazing what a few atheists can do in a few yrs, that religions and plagues alike haven't in their centuries of existence?


Also, you desire objectivity from people, yet have no courtesy to meet them half way through or offer the same with such asinine comments as you have just made above.. Are you too good to be true or just under-educated about world history?

all the best

This argument has been debunked so many times that it would be redundant for me to repeat it but I guess to get it though your head I will.

Things such as religous wars are done by people to defend their religion and the people doing it are encouraged by their religion to do it. It is not a matter of a person just happening to be religous. For example, if christian was to break their neighbours window, I would not blame it on christianity.

However, these people you have listed, did not commit their acts in thename of atheism.

 

[IHaveADream]

No, I am not at all missing the point.. you are however on multiple levels and I really do have better things to do with the rest of this evening...

nonetheless, I wish you all the best, and hope another person more patient than myself takes over since I bore quite easily with recycled platitudes!


all the best

Obviously you are happy to create the strawman that I think religion is only here to threaten non-believers with hell, but that only shows willful ignorance on your part.

 

[جوري]

This argument has been debunked so many times that it would be redundant for me to repeat it but I guess to get it though your head I will.

Things such as religous wars are done by people to defend their religion and the people doing it are encouraged by their religion to do it. It is not a matter of a person just happening to be religous. For example, if christian was to break their neighbours window, I would not blame it on christianity.

However, these people you have listed, did not commit their acts in thename of atheism.

You are redundant indeed it is true.. I'd google some of these characters before answering in what name their crimes were committed considering Hoxha alone and I quote:

"created the first Atheist nation in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

that being said, this will be my last reply to you, I am sure other people here are eager to saved by the powers of your all noetic mind, the same way they look forward to being saved by fundies, Jehovah and Scientologists.. why not get on the band wagon?..


good luck with that and a great evening!