Omar (ra) Series on YouTube

[~Zaria~]

Sis - define educational material for me. Because you seem to think it is only confined to the annals of the past and that nothing in our times can constitute as educational material. This is a very right wing stance you take, you took it on WUP and now here too. I'm aware of it.

I also know what "Middle way" means. Maybe you should go and check up on the definition first before going all fatwa on me.

Scimi

Where have I mentioned any of the above??

What you regard as 'right wing stance' - some of us regard as submitting to our deen in entirety.

I have not even mentioned 'middle way' in my post.
And certainly, I do not understand what 'going all fatwa' is.

If there is another reliable ruling from any other madhab, please provide this.
This is all I ask.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I thought everyone understand photography/picture making etc gains Allaahs curse?

let alone depicting the most illustrious of our ummah...


what is this....



subhanAllaah....

 

[جوري]

No, it is a form of representation. If the representation is based on factual accounts, then it can be seen as educational. If it is based around fiction, then it is just "acting" for a story and that is a past time - entertainment.

But I have already mentioned two instances where the accounts weren't accurate and this is from someone who hasn't even sat for the entire series!

What has this question got to do with the subject at hand? This is splitting hairs in the most silly of ways. This is not how to make a point sis.

A legitimate one. Also I remind you of how I started my post:

Question I would like to pose regardless of the subject of the thread is

I don't see anyone idolising the actor. Nor do I see anyone idolising Umar RA either. I see educational material that allows me to understand the reality of those times in a way that maybe my imagination could not - because I did not research the material as thoroughly as the makers of the series did. And their representation is as accurate as they could fathom given the materials they had at their disposal.
If you feel like you are in danger of idolising the actor or Umar RA then simple - don't watch it until you can fix that error within your own heart. Simple.

You don't see anyone or you see yourself I am a bit confused- you can't speak for absolutely everyone who watches the series- Do people idolize their actors? I'd say so. I have already been told by grown men that they forever link that chubby odd character from Yousef with the prophet yousef PBUH that they can't even imagine him without being assaulted by images of that kid who many of them perceived as effeminate and gay like, who god knows does what other kind of acting on the side.

I think it is fair that everyone voices their concern without being labled 'ultra whatever sect' there's no sectarianism in Islam save for what the shiaas brought and we're not of them and neither they of us!

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

I thought everyone understand photography/picture making etc gains Allaahs curse?

let alone depicting the most illustrious of our ummah...


what is this....



subhanAllaah....

Depends on which situation...

Bro, the muslim surgeons, how could they do their work and study the human body? Exactly, by drawings, they could study it and therefore carry out surgery.

The places of the organs, bones et cetera. they needed to draw that.

 

[IslamicRevival]

I dont think anyone can defend or justify depictions of Sahaba (Allah Be Pleased With Them All) in Movies or in any form, its disrespectful on many levels as no actor on this universe can trully do justice to their character. They (Allah be pleased with them all) are no ordinary beings, after all they are companions of our beloved Nabi (Infinite peace and blessings be upon him). They deserve the utmost respect and depicting them is not a sign of respect in my opinion.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

You guys keep arguing iA - the ones that have benefited from it already have and many others will regardless. I'm glad you all have the time for it, but I honestly don't. The caravan moves on regardless of what people say. You are simply taking a traditional accepted understanding because people feel weird about having a regular person portray the Companions and turning into hukm - minus any textual evidence. You're only being prevented from good deeds and beneficial actions by the deception that you are doing something good by arguing with others. Instead of arguing - provide an alternative for the people that will benefit them - that way you've benefited the community and they have as well. Win win.

As al-Awzai so rightly stated: "When Allah desires evil for a people, He opens the door of argumentation for them and prevents them from doing good deeds."

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Depends on which situation...

Bro, the muslim surgeons, how could they do their work and study the human body? Exactly, by drawings, they could study it and therefore carry out surgery.

The places of the organs, bones et cetera. they needed to draw that.

#

i understand that brother. jazakAllah for raising the point however




Muraad, there is a fine line between argumentation and discouraging evil.


a fine fine line.



may Allah grant us understanding

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Muraad, there is a fine line between argumentation and discouraging evil.

It is not evil until it is proven to be so akhi.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

It is not evil until it is proven to be so akhi.

whats the point of posting daleel when the daleel I will post has already undoubtedly been seen by you.


it is not daleel we need, thats why I made my previous post asking for a dua, asking for understanding....

 

[Insaanah]

It is disappointing to see how this thread has panned out.

Some questions:

When there are means such as books, and audio lectures, as asked for here and suggested here, why do we need to defend the depiction of the sahaabah by actors so vehemently, that we accuse our fellow members and above all brothers and sisters, of:

having errors in their hearts (when nobody knows the state of anyone's heart except Allah)
being right wing extremists not knowing what a middle way is
being prevented from doing deeds and beneficial actions by taking time to oppose this depiction of the sahaabah
and when taking part in an argument, accusing others of doing the arguing
amongst other things.

In saying such things, and making such accustions about our brothers and sisters, is there reward, sin, or neither? Something to think about carefully..

What is to be gained here, by doing so? In defending these depictions, are such depictions enshrined in the sunnah and in defending these depictions are we defending the sunnah from attack?

Instead of arguing - provide an alternative for the people that will benefit them - that way you've benefited the community and they have as well. Win win.

Here we go:

The best thing would be for a book to be written, based on authentic sources.

http://www.kalamullah.com/umar-ibn-alkhattab.html
http://archive.org/details/UmarIbnAl-khattabHisLifeAndTimes
http://www.kalamullah.com/anwar-alawlaki.html

Can I remind people, to post respectfully, and politely, without making accusations. If things carry on the way they have been, this thread runs the risk of being closed.

Jazaakumullah khayr.

 

[Scimitar]

You guys keep arguing iA - the ones that have benefited from it already have and many others will regardless. I'm glad you all have the time for it, but I honestly don't. The caravan moves on regardless of what people say. You are simply taking a traditional accepted understanding because people feel weird about having a regular person portray the Companions and turning into hukm - minus any textual evidence. You're only being prevented from good deeds and beneficial actions by the deception that you are doing something good by arguing with others. Instead of arguing - provide an alternative for the people that will benefit them - that way you've benefited the community and they have as well. Win win.

As al-Awzai so rightly stated: "When Allah desires evil for a people, He opens the door of argumentation for them and prevents them from doing good deeds."

^this, so much this...

I will refrain from arguing with the rest of the mob here. I have what I need. you have your convictions. same convictions that let you frown at this series should be represented in Mustapha Akkads production of The Message, and also the cartoons of early islam, et al... yet I don't see you cause a fuss over that. Very selective. So keep to your (selective) convictions. I'm out of this thread

Assalaam alaikum.

Scimitar

 

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

Threads such as this should not become a cause for division or ill-feeling. Naturally, we will incline to different stances in various issues, however, we should be able to discuss our views without putting the other side down. The Sahabah themselves held different opinions sometimes and yet they still upheld the best of manners and respect for each other. Likewise we must follow their example and not allow shaytaan the opportunity to sow discord. Not all posts have given this impression, but just a reminder Insha'Allaah.

 

[Perseveranze]

As for the video that Perseveranze posted - that was the very same video that I found to be full of idiocy. And the salaf/wahhabi in it needs to speak without emotional content, and bring fact into it. As it was, the man in that vid made a complete pigs ear inn trying to disrepute the series. And anyone who buys into his emotional outburst needs a reality check.

Scimi

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think that's being very disrespectful to the scholar and really wasn't needed. I also am unsure on how you know what "sect" he belongs to as well. The scholar simply discouraged against the depictions and gave an analogy as to why he holds that view, thus the title; "would you accept it for your wife?".

It was an emotional video due to the love he has for the companions(ra). The point he made was simple, if you had a wife, would you be happy if someone depicted your wife in a tv show that would be seen by millions? Many people would honestly answer no.

You don't have to agree with what he said, but I think some of the stuff you said was uncalled for.

 

[CosmicPathos]

You are simply taking a traditional accepted understanding because people feel weird about having a regular person portray the Companions and turning into hukm - minus any textual evidence.

Customs and tradition forms an important source of classical fiqh. What better custom/tradition than that of salaf.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I hope Saudis are banning this series, just like they banned the movie Message.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Let's not forget that non Muslims are watching this too, and learning from it. And liking it. WOuld they have otherwise got the opportunity to learn about the companions? They don't even like to pick up books...

you know, non-Muslims learn a lot from watching faahish videos too ... so your argument is nullified. Consequentialism is rotten.

 

[CosmicPathos]

education material, this docu-drama? Get real, bro.

Your primary source of knowledge is docu-dramas? Docu-dramas are entertainment at best.

If someone wants to genuinely learn about something, they should head to the library, pick some books up and start their journey.

If they are blind, they can listen to audio-books. If they are deaf and blind, they can read specializd books written for them.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Threads such as this should not become a cause for division or ill-feeling. Naturally, we will incline to different stances in various issues, however, we should be able to discuss our views without putting the other side down. The Sahabah themselves held different opinions sometimes and yet they still upheld the best of manners and respect for each other. Likewise we must follow their example and not allow shaytaan the opportunity to sow discord. Not all posts have given this impression, but just a reminder Insha'Allaah.

I think disrespect, if any, has come from other side. Anti-series brothers and sisters have not really made emotional arguments, but rather valid points.

First we have been told that we will have any worth to partake in discussion if we are able to create a movie which "spreads and impacts" as this series has. And then the hurls of wahhabi and salafi. Its obvious who is getting a bit naughty in this thread.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Customs and tradition forms an important source of classical fiqh. What better custom/tradition than that of salaf.

It does, but there are rules and methodologies.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

In saying such things, and making such accustions about our brothers and sisters, is there reward, sin, or neither? Something to think about carefully..

The same thing everyone else is doing against the ones who've made the video and watched it - reading some of the posts it is as if the one's that have watched it have committed heresy or something, and yet all is based on nothing but dhann.

Here we go:


http://www.kalamullah.com/umar-ibn-alkhattab.html
http://archive.org/details/UmarIbnAl-khattabHisLifeAndTimes
http://www.kalamullah.com/anwar-alawlaki.html

Can I remind people, to post respectfully, and politely, without making accusations. If things carry on the way they have been, this thread runs the risk of being closed.

Jazaakumullah khayr.

0) Books are great and so are lectures. But there's nothing wrong with another avenue to reach people. We need to evolve with the times. After all, it was the Malikis who came up with the concept of using a seeing eye dog to guide blind people even though they are the ones who are the hardest in fiqh against the najasa of a dog - yet they saw a benefit for the Muslims and people and went ahead with it even though people had been getting along just fine without this before. If we take the attitudes of some people here, no way can that be allowed because after all, dogs are filthy animals. Yet, they saw benefit in something and went ahead with it. Same here. They were forward thinking people within the guidelines of the deen - this deen inspired them to move forward. Backward thinking has already stagnated our growth - it's time to move ahead and expand our contribution everywhere as was the way of our ummah for the longest time minus the last few centuries.
1) Not all people are the same. Not all times are the same.
2) Read my post here: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134315177-omar-ra-series-youtube.html#post1540636
3) Times are different. There is no textual evidence that you guys are bringing. At least provide something!


Anyway, clearly this is getting no where and I don't want people to argue with each other incessantly and I being the thread starter be the one who facilitated it. No thanks. I will close this thread now.