Open Challenge to Muslims.

Greetings,

More copy and pasting is in evidence, this time from Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.

Sevenxtrust's last two posts have been from here and here.

Although I'm not a mod, and therefore I don't make the rules, I would suggest that this is not a very good way to proceed with the discussion. Either people can ask their own questions and people can provide their own answers, or if it is seen as necessary to answer with other people's words, references should be provided. Passing off someone else's words as your own is unacceptable in serious discourse.

Sevenxtrust is not the only one guilty of this - the long list of contradictions in the Bible was also blatantly lifted from somewhere without being credited.

What do the mods think?

EDIT: Rule #5: When quoting an article, story, poem, review or any written material, you must mention the author, if known to you, and the source from which you copied these materials. Give credit to where it belongs.

Peace
 
Last edited:
Now I will answer question 100.

Question:

100: Was baby Jesus' life threatened in Jerusalem?

Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died. (matthew 2:13, 23)

No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

Now my answer:

"21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. 22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
"25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. 36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. 39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

"41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover."

Answer. The problem with this question is that, it imputes on the Scriptures what it does not say: “Baby Jesus' life was never threatened in Jerusalem and the family fled nowhere." This is not the case.

It so happened that Luke opted to skip what Matthew found useful in his theme: to present Jesus to the Hebrews as their long expected Messiah who fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies. This is the main focus of his writing and so he had to include this event in his gospel account. We have listed down the major Old Testament prophecies about Jesus where we got 51 cited prophecies in Matthew (though this is not exhaustive) compared to 6 in Mark; 12 in Luke and 17 in John. The 47 prophecies included this:

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1.
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,

More copy and pasting is in evidence, this time from Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.

Sevenxtrust's last two posts have been from here and here.

Although I'm not a mod, and therefore I don't make the rules, I would suggest that this is not a very good way to proceed with the discussion. Either people can ask their own questions and people can provide their own answers, or if it is seen as necessary to answer with other people's words, references should be provided. Passing off someone else's words as your own is unacceptable in serious discourse.

Sevenxtrust is not the only one guilty of this - the long list of contradictions in the Bible was also blatantly lifted from somewhere without being credited.

What do the mods think?

EDIT: Rule #5: When quoting an article, story, poem, review or any written material, you must mention the author, if known to you, and the source from which you copied these materials. Give credit to where it belongs.

Peace
Click to expand...

Sorry, I will do so, from now on. Thank You for reminding me.
 
Cheb said:
Well do you not see something wrong here? I mean the fact that the bible was written by man is what caused these mistakes and misunderstandings. In fact the more time that passes the further it is from the truth. It just keeps changing. Why do you not see a flaw in that? Humans are not perfect, God is.
Click to expand...
I hope I can get a response to this. Thanks.
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,

More copy and pasting is in evidence, this time from Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.

Sevenxtrust's last two posts have been from here and here.

Although I'm not a mod, and therefore I don't make the rules, I would suggest that this is not a very good way to proceed with the discussion. Either people can ask their own questions and people can provide their own answers, or if it is seen as necessary to answer with other people's words, references should be provided. Passing off someone else's words as your own is unacceptable in serious discourse.

Sevenxtrust is not the only one guilty of this - the long list of contradictions in the Bible was also blatantly lifted from somewhere without being credited.

What do the mods think?

EDIT: Rule #5: When quoting an article, story, poem, review or any written material, you must mention the author, if known to you, and the source from which you copied these materials. Give credit to where it belongs.

Peace
Click to expand...
Thank you for this post. I sometimes forget to credit the authors too. Good thing you mentioned it because it is always important to know where you get your information from. However I do hope taht if someone quotes something that they have something else to say. What would be the point if you only mention someone elses opinion.
 
Peace,

A Question For you,

How Can Three Gods (Father, Son And Holy Spirit) be one God?
 
Assalaam Alakium,

My original question was why Christian women do not cover their legs, hair, etc based on the quote from the Bible:

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman [is] of the man, even so [is] the man also by the woman; but all things of God. Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." (1 Corin. 11:1-16)

sevenxtrust said:
Corrects some abuses.

Here begin particulars respecting the public assemblies, ch. 1Co 14. In the abundance of spiritual gifts bestowed on the Corinthians, some abuses had crept in; but as Christ did the will, and sought the honour of God, so the Christian should avow his subjection to Christ, doing his will and seeking his glory. We should, even in our dress and habit, avoid every thing that may dishonour Christ.
Click to expand...

Why avoid dishonouring Christ? We should not dishonour GOD!


sevenxtrust said:
The woman was made subject to man, because made for his help and comfort. And she should do nothing, in Christian assemblies, which looked like a claim of being equal. She ought to have to ?power, to ? that is, a veil, on her head, because of the angels. Their presence should keep Christians from all that is wrong while in the worship of God.
Click to expand...

In the last statement you said to avoid from dishounouring Christ, but here you say to avoid wrong while in the worship of GOD.

Which is it? Why only in the worship of GOD? We should NOT dishounour GOD in his presence which is 100% of the time as he sees and knows all things!

You say Woman was made for Mans help and comfort and she should do nothing to look like a claim of being equal?

THAT IS SAD!

Women and men are 100% equal in the Quran and in God's eyes.

sevenxtrust said:
Nevertheless, the man and the woman were made for one another. They were to be mutual comforts and blessings, not one a slave, and the other a tyrant.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about slaves and Tryants?

I am not a Slave, I am not a Tyrant. I am the "bread-winner" in the family and we discuss. Alhamdulliah, we ahve been married 5 years with not 1 fight! How is that for a United States couple! ;D

sevenxtrust said:
God has so settled matters, both in the kingdom of providence and that of grace, that the authority and subjection of each party should be for mutual help and benefit. It was the common usage of the churches, for women to appear in public assemblies, and join in public worship, veiled; and it was right that they should do so. The Christian religion sanctions national customs wherever these are not against the great principles of truth and holiness; affected singularities receive no countenance from any thing in the Bible.
Click to expand...

Muslims follow Quran 100% to the TEE! Christians adapt it to fit the lifestyle of the times. God doesn't like that!

So basically, the women should have long hair, that is what the Bible teaches as a head covering, also they should dress modestly, yes. But there is nothing about covering their legs in the Bible, and yes they should not be openly sowing their breast(the fleshly part). But they should be covered,,otherwise it is SIN, and there should be repentance.
Click to expand...

How do you get the long hair thing out of the Bible? It does not say specify about legs, but wouldn't you agree in Modesty of the legs? And why in Church only?

Salaam,
SisterKhadija
 
Cheb said:
I hope I can get a response to this. Thanks.
Click to expand...

You are correct to a degree, the original manuscripts are in-fact from the inspiration of God, according to 2 Timothy 3:16. "Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, (and) for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action). So, there is no error what so ever for the original God-breathed manuscripts. But like you say, translating them from their original Hebrew and Greek,,does in fact imply that there is human error only in translating from the original to other languages such as English.
 
But like you say, translating them from their original Hebrew and Greek,,does in fact imply that there is human error only in translating from the original to other languages such as English.
Click to expand...

Sevenxtrust: Therein lies one of the major problems. You don't have the original text to go back to. Copying errors, additions by man, (either in an attempt to make things more clear or deliberately....probably a bit of both), this is why the Bible cannot be the trusted source of God's word. It contains MORE than the word of God....it contains the words of unknown authors.

Peace
Hana
 
Sister Khadija said:
Assalaam Alakium,

My original question was why Christian women do not cover their legs, hair, etc based on the quote from the Bible:

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman [is] of the man, even so [is] the man also by the woman; but all things of God. Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." (1 Corin. 11:1-16)



Why avoid dishonouring Christ? We should not dishonour GOD!




In the last statement you said to avoid from dishounouring Christ, but here you say to avoid wrong while in the worship of GOD.

Which is it? Why only in the worship of GOD? We should NOT dishounour GOD in his presence which is 100% of the time as he sees and knows all things!

You say Woman was made for Mans help and comfort and she should do nothing to look like a claim of being equal?

THAT IS SAD!

Women and men are 100% equal in the Quran and in God's eyes.



Who said anything about slaves and Tryants?

I am not a Slave, I am not a Tyrant. I am the "bread-winner" in the family and we discuss. Alhamdulliah, we ahve been married 5 years with not 1 fight! How is that for a United States couple! ;D



Muslims follow Quran 100% to the TEE! Christians adapt it to fit the lifestyle of the times. God doesn't like that!



How do you get the long hair thing out of the Bible? It does not say specify about legs, but wouldn't you agree in Modesty of the legs? And why in Church only?

Salaam,
SisterKhadija
Click to expand...

Answer: This was not a command to all, study in carefully. It was simply a cultural thing that was in Corinth, like among the many Muslims. Also, did Paul exhort this to all other Gentiles. NO. 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 addresses the issue of women and head coverings. This is admittedly a difficult passage to interpret and apply to today’s church. At that time, in the Corinthian culture, women wore head coverings to demonstrate submission to their husbands. No other book of the Bible mentions head coverings as a common practice. In Corinth, ff a woman were to remove her head covering, it would be equivalent to saying, “I refuse to submit to my husband.” Evidently, some women in Corinth were doing this very thing. As a result, Paul commands the women to wear head coverings to demonstrate their submission to their head, namely their husbands.



Now, in today’s culture, a woman wearing a head covering does not indicate submission to a husband. Hats are only fashion statements. Since a head covering no longer means what it meant in Bible times, women do not have to wear head coverings. Women should do whatever is culturally normal for demonstrating submission to their husband. If you feel led of the Lord to wear a head covering, you should do so. This is an issue on which women should follow their own convictions, and not try to force their convictions on others.

Now,,what is modesty?

According to the Wikipedia, it is this; Modesty describes a set of culturally or religiously determined values that relate to the presentation of the self to others.

Now, note the word culturally,,In my culture, anything above the knees is SIN, your culture it is different. So Biblically I am justified and yourself.
 
Women should do whatever is culturally normal for demonstrating submission to their husband. If you feel led of the Lord to wear a head covering, you should do so. This is an issue on which women should follow their own convictions, and not try to force their convictions on others.
Click to expand...

So you admit that Christianity comes from the whims of man and not God. Unless of course you can show me a biblical verse where God says, "As the time and fashion changes, ignore my law and do whatever is culturally normal at the time"? :muddlehea

You say Paul taught this too? Who gave him the right to change what God ordained?

Peace,
Hana
 
Hana_Aku said:
Sevenxtrust: Therein lies one of the major problems. You don't have the original text to go back to. Copying errors, additions by man, (either in an attempt to make things more clear or deliberately....probably a bit of both), this is why the Bible cannot be the trusted source of God's word. It contains MORE than the word of God....it contains the words of unknown authors.

Peace
Hana
Click to expand...

Be advised, I do have the Hebrew and Greek. The mistakes that are, do rarely change the meaning. Do you really think that it matters to me spiritually who killed Goliath. NO, are any of the commands in the Bible, the new testament changed from the original. No, I have studied this,, have you?
There is nothing in Gods Word that will affect where I go after death. I have taken Jesus to be my Personal Saviour. The day I accepted him, my lifestyle changed, and I never did the changing. Could I myself overcome my addictions of, sex, cocaine, alcohol, weed, acid, marijuana, fighting, un-righteous anger, lust, etc, etc all in one day. September 7/03. No, many people who come off of these drugs without help, 90% of the time die. Personally I need no other proof of God, that is proof enough., I never even had a craving for this stuff ever since. I am only here to speak the truth>>
 
Greetings,
sevenxtrust said:
1 Corinthians 11:3-16 addresses the issue of women and head coverings. This is admittedly a difficult passage to interpret and apply to today’s church. At that time, in the Corinthian culture, women wore head coverings to demonstrate submission to their husbands. No other book of the Bible mentions head coverings as a common practice. In Corinth, ff a woman were to remove her head covering, it would be equivalent to saying, “I refuse to submit to my husband.” Evidently, some women in Corinth were doing this very thing. As a result, Paul commands the women to wear head coverings to demonstrate their submission to their head, namely their husbands.

Now, in today’s culture, a woman wearing a head covering does not indicate submission to a husband. Hats are only fashion statements. Since a head covering no longer means what it meant in Bible times, women do not have to wear head coverings. Women should do whatever is culturally normal for demonstrating submission to their husband. If you feel led of the Lord to wear a head covering, you should do so. This is an issue on which women should follow their own convictions, and not try to force their convictions on others.
Click to expand...

Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html

It's time for another reminder. I can't do all your references for you, you know!

According to the Wikipedia, it is this; Modesty describes a set of culturally or religiously determined values that relate to the presentation of the self to others.
Click to expand...

A sign of things to come? Let's hope so.

Peace
 
Hana_Aku said:
So you admit that Christianity comes from the whims of man and not God. Unless of course you can show me a biblical verse where God says, "As the time and fashion changes, ignore my law and do whatever is culturally normal at the time"? :muddlehea

You say Paul taught this too? Who gave him the right to change what God ordained?

Peace,
Hana
Click to expand...

It seems to me you have choosen not to open your eyes. Was it 1: a command to all followers of God. No(study) 2: Was not the church of Corinth different from the church of Galatia(yes), study and see that I am from the church of Galatia culturally. 3: Take in to account when studying scripture who it is that God was talking too.

If you are really, searching for the truth, you will understand. But if you are searching to prove yourself-then you have already made up your mind what is true. Take the veil away from your eyes in the name of Jesus, the Christ and you WILL SEE>>>
 
so sevenxtrust...
do you or do you not agree that the Bible that you have at present with you is NOT completely the word of God???
if you do....then why and how should i trust you on the verses that you are quoting to be the part of the Bible which is the word of God???
and if you dont agree....then go ahead and answer ALL the contradictions...and the ones that are mentioned are not even half of it...
I should ask you to listen to some good debates between Muslim and Christian scholars... go to : http://www.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=50027&TitleName=Zakir_Naik
 
sevenxtrust said:
Could I myself overcome my addictions of, sex, cocaine, alcohol, weed, acid, marijuana, fighting, un-righteous anger, lust, etc, etc all in one day. September 7/03. No, many people who come off of these drugs without help, 90% of the time die. Personally I need no other proof of God, that is proof enough., I never even had a craving for this stuff ever since. I am only here to speak the truth>>
Click to expand...

Alhamdulillah, (All thanks be too Allah). I am very happy to know you have been successful in overcoming these addictions. It's really wonderful!! :)


Be advised, I do have the Hebrew and Greek. The mistakes that are, do rarely change the meaning. Do you really think that it matters to me spiritually who killed Goliath. NO, are any of the commands in the Bible, the new testament changed from the original. No, I have studied this,, have you?There is nothing in Gods Word that will affect where I go after death. I have taken Jesus to be my Personal Saviour.
Click to expand...

On those occassions where they DO change the meaning...what do you do? And, sorry to disagree, but you don't have the orginal text and if you do have the original words said by Jesus, pbuh, you need to turn them over....do you know how many people have been searching for those? Not one word was recorded in His lifetime, so I assure you, you don't have them.

Yes, many commandments changed via Paul...I will provide a list when I get home because I'm about to leave work. And yes, I did study...A LOT....that's how I found the truth in Islam. :happy: Alhamdulillah!

Ok, more later, gotta run! :)

Peace
Hana
 
Salaam said:
#

Dont Forget to answer this queation....
Click to expand...

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Trinity also known as Godhead

three: the cardinal number that is the sum of one and one and one
the union of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost in one Godhead
trio: three people considered as a unit

Brief:

They all hold a different office in one body.

God THE Father: The primary truth is that of strenght, power of effect, and that it properly describes Him in that character in which he is exhibited to all men in his works, as the creator, sustainer and supreme governor of the world. ( so God the father, his part in this creation is sustainer and supreme governor, the one who will judge)

God THE Son: His office is to show the wisdom and power of God onto salvation. He is divine, in order that he may be an all-powerful, all-loving Savior, able and willing to defend us from every enemy, to subdue all temptations, to deliver from all sin, and to bring each of his people, and the whole church, into complete and final victory. God cannot look upon sin, so Jesus has suffered the penalty of sin, that we may approach God through him. He is our mediator.

God THE Holy Spirit: The Holy Spirit, after taking Christ as Savior, convicts us of Sin, and guides us to Truth.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top