Opposite Gender Concerns

[Count DeSheep]

Gender Segregation

I'm starting this thread to learn, not to insult.

From what I've been told so far, women and men are kept separate because a majority of Muslims think that if a man and a woman are friends, they will obviously have sex outside of marriage. And so they are not allowed to be friends, nor have friendly conversations. A conversation between a woman and a man should be strictly business.

Is that about right?

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: Gender Segregation

Hey.


Friendship outside of marriage can lead to that - yes. So to prevent a person from getting harmed physically, or even emotionally - the person is encouraged to get married and to have a relationship with their spouse. And within this marriage, it is encouraged for them to beautify themselves for each other and to be friends and all that kinda stuff.


By the way, how come its in the comparative religion section? lol.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: Gender Segregation

:salamext:

count desheep, from personal experience what do you find when around the opposite gender, do you find yourself more gentle towards them? Are you more leniant? Are you perhaps attracted? Perhaps do you want them to be attracted towards you? Sometimes perhaps they will be attracted without you even trying! And this will create problems because perhaps it is not in Gods will that you both marry, therefore you will seperate, this will take you away from God and cause problems.

Is this difficult to understand?

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

Friendship outside of marriage can lead to that - yes. So to prevent a person from getting harmed physically, or even emotionally - the person is encouraged to get married and to have a relationship with their spouse. And within this marriage, it is encouraged for them to beautify themselves for each other and to be friends and all that kinda stuff.

So because there's a small chance that friendship outside of marriage might lead to sex, it's totally banned?

By the way, how come its in the comparative religion section? lol.

I'm gunna point meh finger at an unnamed moderator...XP He/She/It said to put this here, but I'm pretty sure I didn't understand the message...>.<

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: Gender Segregation

Count de sheep, do you really think theres only a small chance? Just see how a guy and a gurl be friends and they might start getting feelings for each other as they get older.. do you think this is only a small chance?
Or how about a girl and a guy hanging out.. how come it's so common for them to date? And what happens when they start dating?


Does this happen rarely or does it happen nearly all the time?

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

count desheep, from personal experience what do you find when around the opposite gender, do you find yourself more gentle towards them? Are you more leniant? Are you perhaps attracted? Perhaps do you want them to be attracted towards you?

No. I do not show favor towards either gender in any way. I place emphasis on the individual, regardless of any physical characteristics.

Sometimes perhaps they will be attracted without you even trying!

Good point, but in my case, that is not a possibility.

And this will create problems because perhaps it is not in Gods will that you both marry, therefore you will seperate, this will take you away from God and cause problems.

Is this difficult to understand?

Yes, it is difficult to understand. If two friends get involved, and if they separate, then why would it cause problems?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: Gender Segregation

i have asked many non-muslim friends and they all say they easily go from girl to girl liking one another, when asked who they hang around with as chums/buddies its always boys... you tell me why :?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: Gender Segregation

Yes, it is difficult to understand. If two friends get involved, and if they separate, then why would it cause problems?

heartbreak my friend

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

Count de sheep, do you really think theres only a small chance?

Yes, I do.

Just see how a guy and a gurl be friends and they might start getting feelings for each other as they get older.. do you think this is only a small chance?

It's a largely chance if they know each other during puberty, but before or after, it should only be a small chance.

Or how about a girl and a guy hanging out.. how come it's so common for them to date? And what happens when they start dating?

I know plenty of people with friends of the opposite gender. I have made friends that are women and not dated a single one, nor had any desire to do so.

Does this happen rarely or does it happen nearly all the time?

Is it so hard to accept that not everyone is sex crazed?

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

heartbreak my friend

How could that have any effect on their relationship with God?

 

[Talha777]

Re: Gender Segregation

I'm starting this thread to learn, not to insult.

From what I've been told so far, women and men are kept separate because a majority of Muslims think that if a man and a woman are friends, they will obviously have sex outside of marriage. And so they are not allowed to be friends, nor have friendly conversations. A conversation between a woman and a man should be strictly business.

Is that about right?

I don't think the reason for men and women being segregated is solely to avoid fornication/adultery. The reason is that people who spend time in the company of strange women lose their morals and become soft like women. I even think that most if not all homosexuals are the way they are because they have been in the company of women more than in company of their own gender, hence they have similar emotions and feelings like women. In short, men will lose their masculinity and women will lose their femininity (become "tomboys"). Also, even if actual adultery may not occur, people will become tempted in their hearts and may become secretly attracted to someone they are not married to.

Also, there is a spiritual effect on those people who spend time in the company of the opposite gender. I myself go to high school and virtually every male student I know has some friends among girls, and this is why I see such a lack of morals and righteousness among westerners. It's actually a Catholic school I go to, and you would think the students would have at least some religious values and morals, but to be quite honest, the Catholic school students are indistinguisable from public school students, the only difference is that the Catholic students wear uniforms. So you can see how a religion (Catholicism) can lose all its spiritual power and force to inspire people simply because it has omitted such an important teaching.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: Gender Segregation

How could that have any effect on their relationship with God?

becoz they wont be living together and will always be thinking about each other wanting more of each other etc etc

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

i have asked many non-muslim friends and they all say they easily go from girl to girl liking one another, when asked who they hang around with as chums/buddies its always boys... you tell me why :?

Maybe because they do not have the same morals you do. They do not share in the same level of religious devotion, and they do not worship as you do. They were raised in a society where it is acceptable to go from partner to partner, but some people aren't. I have never had a desire to love someone, and obviously, I haven't had a desire to go from one person to the next.

As for actual friends, I say it's because of common interests. Maybe they don't like things most women in the area do. But there are many men and women who do have common interests. Where I live, it is common to have people of both genders liking the same things: reading, sports, games, food, or whatever else. There is little to no gender discrimination (favouring or disfavouring) in my area. I haven't seen any in the place I live now, nor in the area where I lived until I was ten years old.

 

[Woodrow]

Re: Gender Segregation

At times it does seem to be a hardship on us. But, the reality is that in the overall scheme of life it has the result of men and women getting to know each other with respect. It prevents problems before they have a chance to happen.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: Gender Segregation

Yes, I do.

I disagree.

It's a largely chance if they know each other during puberty, but before or after, it should only be a small chance.

Well puberty lasts for 6 long years, remember that the persons life is changing and they desire things they never desired before. So within this time period they could do many things which could affect their future, i.e. like stated before, it may start off as dating, which leads to kissing, and then it becomes even more intimate than that.

I know plenty of people with friends of the opposite gender. I have made friends that are women and not dated a single one, nor had any desire to do so.

I do to, and they became more than friends and later on they hated each other because of that break up that they had. This breakup wouldn't occur if they weren't friends in the first place, and the reason why they approached each other was because they desired each other.

Is it so hard to accept that not everyone is sex crazed?

Just look at the world around you, why are girls 'starving' themselves to death just to fit into the right clothes? Whats with all the bling?

They all do it to get popular, and to be a 'playa' is encouraged, in the media and in the social standards.

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

I don't think the reason for men and women being segregated is solely to avoid fornication/adultery. The reason is that people who spend time in the company of strange women lose their morals and become soft like women. I even think that most if not all homosexuals are the way they are because they have been in the company of women more than in company of their own gender, hence they have similar emotions and feelings like women. In short, men will lose their masculinity and women will lose their femininity (become "tomboys"). Also, even if actual adultery may not occur, people will become tempted in their hearts and may become secretly attracted to someone they are not married to.

Also, there is a spiritual effect on those people who spend time in the company of the opposite gender. I myself go to high school and virtually every male student I know has some friends among girls, and this is why I see such a lack of morals and righteousness among westerners. It's actually a Catholic school I go to, and you would think the students would have at least some religious values and morals, but to be quite honest, the Catholic school students are indistinguisable from public school students, the only difference is that the Catholic students wear uniforms. So you can see how a religion (Catholicism) can lose all its spiritual power and force to inspire people simply because it has omitted such an important teaching.

That is the first explanation I've heard that actually makes sense.

So does that mean that Muslims are afraid that their religion will fail and become corrupt if men and women are allowed to know each other as friends?

 

[Talha777]

Re: Gender Segregation

So does that mean that Muslims are afraid that their religion will fail and become corrupt if men and women are allowed to know each other as friends?

It means Muslims will fail and become corrupt, just like non-Muslims are, if men and women are allowed to know eachother as friends. The religion of Islam cannot be changed. I said that Catholicism is a weak religion because its teachings do not emphasize gender segregation and chastity, or at least to the level that it will have a useful effect on its adherents. Its just funny to me that the Church teaches against fornication, yet in the Catholic schools they run they don't segregate boys and girls and do not forbid interaction between the two genders.

Christianity teaches "thou shalt not commit adultery" and it ends there. Islam teaches the same, but it also has teachings to exterminate the very root of the problem.

 

[Muhammad]

Re: Gender Segregation

Greetings,

In Islam, we are taught to obey what Allaah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) tell us, regardless of whether we fully understand the reasoning behind such rulings, because we believe that Allaah is perfect in every way; All-Wise, All-Knowing, and that whatever He has ordered us to do is the best thing for us. It is He who has created us and therefore He knows what is best for His servants. Sometimes we might understand to some degree the reason behind a ruling or an event, and other times we may not. In both cases, however, we accept it as being a ruling of Allaah and we must obey it.

With gender segregation, it does not mean that every single friendship will lead to adultery. Yet the possibility is there, and Islam closes the doors that lead to trial and temptation. No man can say that he is free from the temptations of the devil, who does not cease to try his best in leading one into sin. So Islam has put in place a number of guidelines for preserving modesty and shyness that are conducive to humility and piety before Allaah, as well as preserving social and familial order.

You might know of 100 friendships between two people of the opposite gender and none have developed into something further. But the sole reason that we have been taught to avoid this in Islam, if you disagree with the reasoning behind this, is sufficient for doing so.

Peace.

P.S. I'll put in the link for that thread again in case you missed it: http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-...tween-men-women-internet-some-guidelines.html

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

P.S. I'll put in the link for that thread again in case you missed it: http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-...tween-men-women-internet-some-guidelines.html

The rest of your message made a lot of sense to me. Thanks. You and Talha seem to be the only ones able to get this point across. =D

Even more importantly, the private messaging system is a perfect example of men and women being alone together, as warned against by the scholars.

You said that one the thread you linked to. Does this mean that it's only bad if men and women are alone together? Can they be friends as long as they are together in public?

 

[Count DeSheep]

Re: Gender Segregation

It means Muslims will fail and become corrupt, just like non-Muslims are, if men and women are allowed to know eachother as friends. The religion of Islam cannot be changed. I said that Catholicism is a weak religion because its teachings do not emphasize gender segregation and chastity, or at least to the level that it will have a useful effect on its adherents. Its just funny to me that the Church teaches against fornication, yet in the Catholic schools they run they don't segregate boys and girls and do not forbid interaction between the two genders.

Christianity teaches "thou shalt not commit adultery" and it ends there. Islam teaches the same, but it also has teachings to exterminate the very root of the problem.

Ah. I think I understand more now. Christianity has largely failed because it has no gender segregation (in part, at least), and Muslims would rather lose the ability to interact freely with the opposite gender than to have the majority of Muslims become lacking in morality and corrupted. Right?

Edit: Talha, what do the students/teachers at the school think of you? Do they treat you differently because you're a Muslim?