Palestine is ‘property of Islam’!

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snakelegs said:
this is wrong. jews are just as monotheistic as muslims are.
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no, they associate partners with Allah by ruling by other than he has revealed.

Quran 5.64
The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

this saying Allah's hand is tied up is negating true belief in Allah and saying his power is limited and is therefore disbelief.


Quran 2.135
They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

here Allah is clearly telling us they associate partners with him in various ways.


Quran 9.30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

this is the heresy where some jews believe one of their kings to be a Son of Allah, may Allah bring such people to a true understanding of man's relationship with Allah - i.e ISLAM.


there are many other verses in the Quran where it is pointed out the jews and christians are disbelievers, they have broken their covanant and so will not be a rightly guided people until they return to the correct path which is islam, the true monotheistic faith.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Daw'ud
 
HeiGou said:
I don't think you have to redraw borders - and what happened after WW1? - but you do need to let the Germans et al return to their homes where they lived before 1945. In the case of Palestine it is easier because the refugees are still in camps waiting to go home. They have a legal and moral right to go home. That needs to be enforced.

The existence of Israel provides no benefits to anyone. It is a strategic and moral liability to the West. It can only exist through the wholesale abuse of Palestinian human rights. The Jewish Israelis would be better off in the West. I think the West needs to offer them all that choice.
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That is the best explanation I've ever read.
 
Dawud_uk said:
no, they associate partners with Allah by ruling by other than he has revealed.

Quran 5.64
The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

this saying Allah's hand is tied up is negating true belief in Allah and saying his power is limited and is therefore disbelief.
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I wonder about this claim. Leaving aside the interesting phenomenon of a Muslim lecturing non-Muslims about what Jews believe. What is the Quran referring to here? What did the Jews say that would prompt such a response?

Quran 9.30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

this is the heresy where some jews believe one of their kings to be a Son of Allah, may Allah bring such people to a true understanding of man's relationship with Allah - i.e ISLAM.
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But these are not Jews in the sense that most people would describe Jews. I believe Ansar Al-Adl has pointed out there was some heretical group in Arabia. But you cannot claim that God has a Son in the Christian sense and be a Jew any more than you can and be a Muslim.

So out of interest, apart from the Quran evidence, can we agree that all the Jews in the world today do not do this, and that there is no evidence of it outside the Quran and aHadith?

there are many other verses in the Quran where it is pointed out the jews and christians are disbelievers, they have broken their covanant and so will not be a rightly guided people until they return to the correct path which is islam, the true monotheistic faith.
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What, all of them? Collectively?
 
Dawud_uk said:
no, they associate partners with Allah by ruling by other than he has revealed.
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well, jews may not be monotheistic from the point of view of islam, but they certainly consider themselves monotheistic, and very strongly so.
no sons. no partners - god is one.
 
snakelegs said:
well, jews may not be monotheistic from the point of view of islam, but they certainly consider themselves monotheistic, and very strongly so.
no sons. no partners - god is one.
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Peace snakelegs,

If someone does something that God has told them not to, or listens to someone else when God has told them to do it different then they are saying they know better than God.

That is taking a partner with God as when he legislates on a matter it is not for us to take a different view and to say this different view is better is an act of associating a partner with God in his right to legislate matters for human beings.

The pagans at the time of the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) also believed in one God but legislated differently to what God had revealed.

God tells also us in the Quran about the Jews and Christians,

“They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!”

Some of the companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) who were new to islam and used to be jews and Christians asked how it was that they used to take their priests and rabbis as partners to Allah?

Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) told them did you not listen to them when they ruled by other than Allah has revealed?

When they responded yes, they understood that when Allah legislates on a matter if you follow other than that then you have taken the one you listen to as a partner besides God.

Hope this helps your understanding of Islam.

Peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,

Daw’ud
 
hi dawud,
so the position of islam is that because jews altered god's words and teachings, (followed their teachers instead of god) they committed shirk.
i think i understand now.
all i was saying is that jews consider themselves monotheistic. they even have their own version of la illaha illaha, which religious jews recite 3 times a day and hope to die with this on their lips.
obviously islam sees it differently. okay.
 

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