Palestinians/Formation of Israel

[kadafi]

I still don't understand why there's an issue since the land was bought. There may be problems with the zionist intention. But this just seems to me like a "good deal gone bad".

No, the Zionists aimed to acquire the majority of the land by buying it from the landholders but failed to reach their aim when the mandate was formed. The land bought was still under 8% of the total which would indicate that 92% of the original land mass belonged to the Palestinians.

Israel offered an arab state and it was rejected. Since then Israel has rejected a two-state solution.

Israel has never offered the Palestinians a viable state, in fact, Palestinians are working towards the acquisition of their own state, hence the two-state resolution which is the best solution thus far.

Regards

 

[lavikor201]

Israel has never offered the Palestinians a viable state, in fact, Palestinians are working towards the acquisition of their own state, hence the two-state resolution which is the best solution thus far.

When the UN declared Israel a state, there was also an Arab State with it. The Arabs could not handle that any Jewish state was in the region. They attacked it, and were defeated.

Israel did not attack the Arab state after the UN resolution. Israel was the first attacked.

 

[searchingsoul]

No, the Zionists aimed to acquire the majority of the land by buying it from the landholders but failed to reach their aim when the mandate was formed. The land bought was still under 8% of the total which would indicate that 92% of the original land mass belonged to the Palestinians.



Israel has never offered the Palestinians a viable state, in fact, Palestinians are working towards the acquisition of their own state, hence the two-state resolution which is the best solution thus far.

Regards


[/COLOR]

I've read from various sources that the arabs were offered their own state during the formation of Israel, I think in 1947. Is this incorrect? Or is the key word, "viable"?

 

[kadafi]

When the UN declared Israel a state, there was also an Arab State with it. The Arabs could not handle that any Jewish state was in the region. They attacked it, and were defeated. Israel did not attack the Arab state after the UN resolution. Israel was the first attacked.

Firstly, regarding the UN partition plan. It was an imposed solution for several reasons. The plan allocated 54% of the land to the Jewish settles whilst they consisted of one-third of the population and only owned less than 8% of the land. This is downright unjust. Prior to the plan, UN proposed two possible solutions, either an unfair two-state solution (which the Jewish settlers favoured) or a single state with proportional representation (which the Palestinians favoured).

Secondly, the Arab countries never invaded Israel that was known according to the partition plan. It was Israel that continued to trangress the allocated boundaries outlined in the plan. If the Arab armies had launched a war against Israel, they would have invaded the Jewish boundaries but did not. Not to mention the fact that Israel has ignored the truce by the UN security council and continued to expand its territories.

I've read from various sources that the arabs were offered their own state during the formation of Israel, I think in 1947. Is this incorrect? Or is the key word, "viable"?

Yes but an unfair proposal. Please refer to my previous reply. Remember that Israel did not offer it, rather it was UN Partition Plan.

 

[sameer]

Islam was given an Arab State when the Jewish State was created. Greed was why the Arabs wanted all of the Land.

Even though it is proven Jewish life floruished in the Holy Land it was Jewish land until it was conquered. Therefore you could say the rightful owners of the land are the Jews.

Muslims have full rights in Israel.

There is a Muslim president of congress, Muslims can run for any office they chose. Actually Muslims have more freedoms in Israel than they would have in many strict Islamic countries.

You never answered my question on ure belief with regards to forming a state of Israeli before the coming of ure messiah?

 

[wilberhum]

the Arab countries never invaded Israel known according to the partition plan. It was Israel that continued to trangress the allocated boundaries outlined in the plan

Never invaded. True, Attacked yes, and As I remember it was on there first day of independance. Long b4 trangressions.

 

[kadafi]

Never invaded. True, Attacked yes, and As I remember it was on there first day of independance. Long b4 trangressions.

The Arab Armies attempted to stop Israeli's aggression against cities and villages that they occupied. The massacres commited while they went on a land-grabbing spree. If the Arab Armies had the intention to attack Israel, they would have never mobilized 20k troops which is relatively small for a combined army compared to Israel's 90/100k troops.

 

[wilberhum]

The Arab Armies attempted to stop Israeli's aggression against cities and villages that they occupied

On the first day of independance?

 

[ManchesterFolk]

The Arab Armies attempted to stop Israeli's aggression against cities and villages that they occupied. The massacres commited while they went on a land-grabbing spree. If the Arab Armies had the intention to attack Israel, they would have never mobilized 20k troops which is relatively small for a combined army compared to Israel's 90/100k troops.

Yeah it sounds like there goal was to try and liberate Arabs with this speech.

"Arabs, arise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill Jews wherever you find them. This pleases Allah, history, and religion. This saves your honor. Allah is with you."

Nothing about liberating.

Just a ten minute speech to pump up his soldiers and tell them to kill Jews.

 

[kadafi]

Yeah it sounds like there goal was to try and liberate Arabs with this speech.

"Arabs, arise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill Jews wherever you find them. This pleases Allah, history, and religion. This saves your honor. Allah is with you."

Nothing about liberating.

Just a ten minute speech to pump up his soldiers and tell them to kill Jews.

This is again one of those circulated lies. The same fabrication which was believed by many Israelis that Arab leaders wanted to push Jewish people into the sea.

If you're going to slam me with quotes, at least be honest about your sources.

Regards

 

[ManchesterFolk]

This is again one of those circulated lies. The same fabrication which was believed by many Israelis that Arab leaders wanted to push Jewish people into the sea.

Do you want me to spend an hour looking for the speech audio. If you understand Arabic than you can hear it for yourself. The speaker pronounces the date ect...

Just ask me and i'll go look for the audio for you and you can listen to these 'lies' yourself.

Then probably come up with an excuse or condone the actions of the speaker.

 

[Geronimo]

This is again one of those circulated lies. The same fabrication which was believed by many Israelis that Arab leaders wanted to push Jewish people into the sea.

If you're going to slam me with quotes, at least be honest about your sources.

Regards

This is a quote right from Al-Husayni's memoirs. How about this one:

"Blessed is he who fights Jihad in the name of Allah, blessed is he who [goes on] raids in the name of Allah, blessed is he who dons a vest of explosives on himself or on his children and goes in to the depth of the Jews and says: Allahu Akbar, Blessed be Allah. Like the collapse of the building upon the heads of the Jews in their sinful dance-hall, I ask of Allah that we see the Knesset collapsing on the heads of the Jews."

-- Dr. Muhammad Ibrahim Madi

Friday Sermon, Palestinian TV
June 8, 2001


"Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours.'--Al-Husaini Memoirs

 

[kadafi]

This is a quote right from Al-Husayni's memoirs. How about this one:

"Blessed is he who fights Jihad in the name of Allah, blessed is he who [goes on] raids in the name of Allah, blessed is he who dons a vest of explosives on himself or on his children and goes in to the depth of the Jews and says: Allahu Akbar, Blessed be Allah. Like the collapse of the building upon the heads of the Jews in their sinful dance-hall, I ask of Allah that we see the Knesset collapsing on the heads of the Jews."

-- Dr. Muhammad Ibrahim Madi

Friday Sermon, Palestinian TV
June 8, 2001


"Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours.'--Al-Husaini Memoirs

Geronimo, please spare me this translated excerpts. Considering that Israelis are known for misquoting and mistranslating Arabic excerpts, provide me with the original arabic quotes. This reminds me of MEMRI, the Israeli Organisation under the false pretext that they translate Middle East sermons and yet are known for mistranslating as witnessed by several newssources.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

You still have not asked if you want the arabic audio of the speech...

Would you like it, if you do I will find time to search for it. I heard it once.

You won't be able to deny it, so maybe you should just not respond...

 

[Geronimo]

You still have not asked if you want the arabic audio of the speech...

Would you like it, if you do I will find time to search for it. I heard it once.

You won't be able to deny it, so maybe you should just not respond...

No need to search I know exactly where it is if he wants to hear it

 

[kadafi]

You still have not asked if you want the arabic audio of the speech...

Would you like it, if you do I will find time to search for it. I heard it once.

You won't be able to deny it, so maybe you should just not respond...

ManchesterFolk, if you have the audio of al-Husseini proclaiming this speech, by all means post it. This should be interesting.

Regards

 

[ManchesterFolk]

The audio is not from al-husseini.

It is audio of a General speaking to tens of thousands of his troops before the invade Israel declaring that every jew must be slaughtered.

If you understand Arabic you will have no counter point because you will hear with your own ears.

I will look for the link to the audio since I have not heard it in 2 years.

 

[kadafi]

The audio is not from al-husseini.

It is audio of a General speaking to tens of thousands of his troops before the invade Israel declaring that every jew must be slaughtered.

If you understand Arabic you will have no counter point because you will hear with your own ears.

I will look for the link to the audio since I have not heard it in 2 years.

Interesting. You first posted quotations alleging that al-Husseini broadcasted a radio message calling for the extermination of the Jews, I then specifcally asked for these quotations in the Arabic text or speech to strengthen your claim, and now you claim that you do not have any authenthic texts related to al-Husseini making these claims. Since when did we shift to some other individual.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

Interesting. You first posted quotations alleging that al-Husseini broadcasted a radio message calling for the extermination of the Jews, I then specifcally asked for these quotations in the Arabic text or speech to strengthen your claim, and now you claim that you do not have any authenthic texts related to al-Husseini making these claims. Since when did we shift to some other individual.

Oh really.

This was the Post I Made:

Yeah it sounds like there goal was to try and liberate Arabs with this speech.

"Arabs, arise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill Jews wherever you find them. This pleases Allah, history, and religion. This saves your honor. Allah is with you."

Nothing about liberating.

Just a ten minute speech to pump up his soldiers and tell them to kill Jews.

Where did I mention the Grand Mufti in this post?

This post was In response to you saying about how the Arab Armies went into to stop "Israeli agression" even though the Arabs started the agression with riots and attacks on Jews.

W

 

[kadafi]

Where did I mention the Grand Mufti in this post?

This post was In response to you saying about how the Arab Armies went into to stop "Israeli agression" even though the Arabs started the agression with riots and attacks on Jews.

W

Hello ManchesterFolk

Unfortunately, you have made another blunder.

The quote Kill [all] the Jews is attributed to the Mufti and hence why I explictly inquired about the evidence. The statement was not attributed to some 'Arab General' but rather to the Mufti.

Regards