Patriotism vs tribalism debate

[EgyptPrincess]

I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?

 

[Umar Ibn Farooq]

Re: Being gay and Islam

Don't tell me what I am and are not. Who do you think you are? It is for Allah to decide. Making takfir on people is a serious thing. Sit down kid.

Narrated Umar bin Al Khattab: “People were (sometimes) judged by the revealing of a Divine Inspiration during the lifetime of Allaah's Apostle صلى الله عليه وسلم but now there is no longer any more (new revelation). Now we judge you by the deeds you practice publicly, so we will trust and favor the one who does good deeds in front of us, and we will not call him to account about what he is really doing in secret, for Allaah will judge him for that; but we will not trust or believe the one who presents to us with an evil deed even if he claims that his intentions were good.”

[Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 3 Book of Witnesses, Hadeeth # 809]

Fear Allah. It is only a reminder that what you claim you're doing is out of the fold of Islam.

You first start off by taking out your emotion and believe your points are right but you haven't given any Islamic proof obliterating my argument.

Second, you claimed you're proud to follow a flag which was never revealed by Allah and contradicts the teachings of Islam( that nationalism is forbidden) yet you clearly say you support and are proudly following that flag. According to Islam, it means you're out of the fold of Islam.

Third, you then say you can't judge me but you failed to realize that Umar Ibn Khattab's statement had refuted your ideological belief.

 

[Umar Ibn Farooq]

Re: Being gay and Islam

A video to the patriotic ''muslims'':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68407n74AxA

 

[Umar Ibn Farooq]

Re: Being gay and Islam

I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?

Jubair ibn Mut’im reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.”

Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 5102

Repent or live in misery.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Re: Being gay and Islam

Second, you claimed you're proud to follow a flag

You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.

 

[Umar Ibn Farooq]

Re: Being gay and Islam

You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.

You are in complete delusion and disapproval. The truth hurts but it must be spoken.

You are in denial. It's clear but I have conveyed the message. Either as a Muslim accept it or take my advice personal and say to mind my own business. The corruption of the ummah is my business.

It is people like you who ruin the clear image of Islam and the divine truth. Continue to follow the deceptive image you have of Islam but the few who follow the haqq will remain and Islam will be there until the day of judgement.

May Allah guide us.

 

[Umar Ibn Farooq]

Re: Being gay and Islam

You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.

That is part of tribalism (loving the country).

The only sincere advice I have for you ukhti, is to remain silent on Islamic topics.

Having no knowledge of such and such topics would ruin your akhirah and the rewards which you've gained in the dunya.

On top of that, people would continuously lecture you and throw you off easily because the ignorance you have dwelled in your life and this would make you a greater jahil.

Take heed

Blending in as a Muslim but shamelessly showing off your country isn't going to change the state of you or the state of the Ummah. If you want to speak the truth and the message which the Prophet SAW had been given, then seek knowledge.

Gaining knowledge would make you lose doubts

 

[BlackFlags]

Re: Being gay and Islam

How can you be saying mind your own business when you go on an Islamic Forum to discuss what you are thinking? You are wanting other people's views on this, and then you say mind your own business? Please don't act so thick and emotional. Be calm.

That is part of tribalism (loving the country).

The only sincere advice I have for you ukhti, is to remain silent on Islamic topics.

Having no knowledge of such and such topics would ruin your akhirah and the rewards which you've gained in the dunya.

On top of that, people would continuously lecture you and throw you off easily because the ignorance you have dwelled in your life and this would make you a greater jahil.

Take heed

Blending in as a Muslim but shamelessly showing off your country isn't going to change the state of you or the state of the Ummah. If you want to speak the truth and the message which the Prophet SAW had been given, then seek knowledge.

Gaining knowledge would make you lose doubts

 

[BlackFlags]

Re: Being gay and Islam

How can you be saying mind your own business when you go on an Islamic Forum to discuss what you are thinking? You are wanting other people's views on this, and then you say mind your own business? Please don't act so thick and emotional. Be calm.

You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Re: Being gay and Islam

How can you be saying mind your own business when you go on an Islamic Forum to discuss what you are thinking? You are wanting other people's views on this, and then you say mind your own business? Please don't act so thick and emotional. Be calm.

He is judging me based on what he thinks I believe. What I believe is of none of his or your concern, there I say "mind your own business" but of course I am open to discussion and if I do something wrong I fully expect someone to tell me so. I actually like it when someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, because then when I fix it, I become a better Muslim. What I don't like is people presuming they know anything about me or what my intentions are and calling me a kufr.

 

[BlackFlags]

Re: Being gay and Islam

you go

That is part of tribalism (loving the country).

The only sincere advice I have for you ukhti, is to remain silent on Islamic topics.

Having no knowledge of such and such topics would ruin your akhirah and the rewards which you've gained in the dunya.

On top of that, people would continuously lecture you and throw you off easily because the ignorance you have dwelled in your life and this would make you a greater jahil.

Take heed

Blending in as a Muslim but shamelessly showing off your country isn't going to change the state of you or the state of the Ummah. If you want to speak the truth and the message which the Prophet SAW had been given, then seek knowledge.

Gaining knowledge would make you lose doubts

 

[Umar Ibn Farooq]

Re: Being gay and Islam

He is judging me based on what he thinks I believe. What I believe is of none of his or your concern, there I say "mind your own business" but of course I am open to discussion and if I do something wrong I fully expect someone to tell me so. I actually like it when someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, because then when I fix it, I become a better Muslim. What I don't like is people presuming they know anything about me or what my intentions are and calling me a kufr.

It is our concern. If you are part of Islam, you are part of the ummah.

 

[BlackFlags]

Re: Being gay and Islam

Lol it doesn't seem like it now that when someone tells you you're doing something wrong, you like it. You are getting emotional. It is kafir, not kufr. As Umar Ibn Farooq said, learn your deen, we all have learning to do. Don't get upset. Drink some water, lie down.

He is judging me based on what he thinks I believe. What I believe is of none of his or your concern, there I say "mind your own business" but of course I am open to discussion and if I do something wrong I fully expect someone to tell me so. I actually like it when someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, because then when I fix it, I become a better Muslim. What I don't like is people presuming they know anything about me or what my intentions are and calling me a kufr.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Re: Being gay and Islam

Don't get upset. Drink some water, lie down.

Don't patronise me lol. I am learning about Islam and inshallah over time my knowledge will expand and I will become a better Muslim. We're all striving to better ourselves aren't we?

 

[BlackFlags]

Re: Being gay and Islam

It was never my intention to patronise you. I am just saying to drink some water and lie down because that is one way to calm ourselves down. Yes Inshallah, we all strive to be better version of ourselves.

Don't patronise me lol. I am learning about Islam and inshallah over time my knowledge will expand and I will become a better Muslim. We're all striving to better ourselves aren't we?

 

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum


Islamically, we shouldn't be nationalistic, tribalistic, or patriotic because it divides us as a people and places pride in us where pride is considered one of the worst attributes. There's no problem in loving a particular country for whatever reason, but we should also want for one another what we'd want for ourselves, so when we feel "proud" to be from somewhere it alienates other groups. For example when the Paris attacks happened, all of the West stood up against it, but when Syria was attacked soon thereafter, there was nothing for them..why? because of nationalism.


I've traveled to a lot of countries and to be honest, there's something beautiful in each one of them that I can't even say I prefer being from one country over another. It's natural to be connected to the place we come from, but we have to be sensible about not allowing our identity to be consumed by dividing ourselves from the ummah through nationalism.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134328929-evils-nationalism.html?highlight=nationalism

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Re: Being gay and Islam

It was never my intention to patronise you. I am just saying to drink some water and lie down because that is one way to calm ourselves down. Yes Inshallah, we all strive to be better version of ourselves.

When I am angry or upset, I'll take your advice and try that

 

[sister herb]

This is confusing discussion. Can I too love my country if I promise to drink some water and lie down?

:?

 

[BlackFlags]

Know your limits and be careful.

This is confusing discussion. Can I too love my country if I promise to drink some water and lie down?

:?

 

[Serinity]

I think it is ok to like your country. As long as it doesn't go over in divisions and hatred between us. Our differences should strengthen us, not divide us. Don't fight for nationalism. Idk where the problem here is :hmm: