PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix wel

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fromelsewhere said:
The Ummah needs to get back on the right track!
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In all civilizations, there are ups and downs.

But when Muslims ruled the world, they spread justice and equity.
And when European ruled the world, they spread oppression and injustice!
 
AhmedGassama said:
First of all, The PhD was not accepted and it found big opposition in all of Tunisia.
Second of all, i ask you a question

After all of the blood shed caused by Europeans during the modern age, where does the humanitarian difference between the Europeans of the Middle Ages and the Europeans of the Modern Age lies ?
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Europeans are certainly no better (or worse) than Muslims. The bloodshed caused by the Europeans during the modern age was primarily due to 2 devastating ideologies: Nazism and Communism. Europeans have since gotten themselves rid of these stupid ideologies (there are a few exceptions, like [MENTION=20848]Karl[/MENTION] who seems to still believe that Nazism is ok). The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better. I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions. Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran, because (1) it doesn't and (2) you make a fool of yourself and mislead others.

AhmedGassama said:
In all civilizations, there are ups and downs.

But when Muslims ruled the world, they spread justice and equity.
And when European ruled the world, they spread oppression and injustice!
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I agree with your first statement, but your second seems a bit odd to me.
When did Muslims or Europeans "rule" the world? Muslims ruled over Muslim countries and Europeans ruled over European countries. Sometimes they ruled well and relatively justly, and sometimes they didn't.
 
fromelsewhere said:
The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better.
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From one PhD dissertation which has gained popularity on various websites, you are now talking about a 'worrying trend' in the Muslim world and linking this to the chaos in the Middle East? If you knew anything about the Middle East, you would know it has very little to do with supposed anti-science messages and more about political turmoil and socio-economic challenges. Before its 2011 revolution, Tunisia's spending on research and development had been steadily climbing since 2000, according to UNESCO's Science Report. According to the same report, places like Qatar and Saudi Arabia have 'seen phenomenal growth in the volume of scientific publications over the past decade.'

I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions.
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What does the dissertation have to do with imposing views onto others?

Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran,
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I asked you this earlier but you didn't answer. Who has mentioned the Qur'an as a reason to reject scientific knowledge?

You are making numerous generalisations and conclusions from one piece of news. As Futuwwa pointed out above, you have no interest in this issue other than forwarding your own agenda-driven narrative.

If you really have an interest in science in the Muslim world, why don't you broaden your search? In Tunisia itself, there is Mourad Zghal, a professor at the Engineering School of Communication of Tunis, who has joined the ranks of the world's most prominent optics scientists: he has been named a Fellow of SPIE, the international society for optics and photonics. His mentor, Zohra Ben Lakhdar, was herself a recipient of the prestigious 2005 L'Oreal-UNESCO award for Women in Science.

Students from marginalized areas of Tunisia are finding a way to solve social problems and even to curb violence by using digital tools. [source]

The Youth Science Association of Tunisia (AJST) , is a Tunisian association that has set targets for the popularization of science, the dissemination of scientific culture among young people and the organization of various scientific camps.

Looking elsewhere in the Muslim world, here are 10 Malaysian Scientists Whose Research Is Making The World A Better Place.

Below are further examples:


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[TD="bgcolor: #008000"]Genetics:
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[TD="bgcolor: #800000"]Medicine:
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[TD="bgcolor: #808000"]Mathematics:
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  • An Iranian mathematician became the first ever female winner of the celebrated Fields Medal. In a landmark hailed as "long overdue", Prof Maryam Mirzakhani was recognized for her work on complex geometry.
  • Kazakhstani Muslim scientist proves the existence of a solution to Navier Stokes Equation which is deemed one of the hardest in the world.
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[TD="bgcolor: #550886"]Engineering:
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[TD="bgcolor: #008080"]Education:
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[TD="bgcolor: #74B6B6"]According to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), four Muslim countries were ranked in the top 20 destinations all over the world for international students.
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[TD="bgcolor: #0099CC"]Space:
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  • The European space probes Rosetta and Philae didn't only have Egyptian names to commemorate the Egyptian Civilization’s contributions to humanity, but four Egyptian scientists have also worked in this historic space mission.
  • Egyptian students were ranked internationally among the top 20 teams of space engineering youth groups that participated at the University Rover Challenge (URC), in USA. In 2016, Bangladesh and Egypt are among the teams advancing to the semi-finals.
  • A young female Kazakh inventor Nazifa Baktybayeva has been working on a real in-orbit satellite that will allow Kazakhstani students to conduct research based on materials obtained from space. This invention wasn't Nazifa's first one as in 2012 she created a model of a Venusian spacecraft that was fabricated using parts of her own old computer, headphones, a DVD disk, an umbrella and even a hanger and she calculated the craft's trajectory.
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In addition, here is a list of 14 exciting and celebrated nanotechnologists from the Muslim world:

  1. Dr. Mostefa El-Sayed [Nano-scale Scientist], Regents’ Professor and Julius Brown Chair, Georgia Institute of Technology, Zewail Prize, #17 on Thomson Reuters, Top 100 Chemists of the Decade
  2. Dr. Ibrahim Elfadel [Designer of Nano-scale Tools], Professor, Masdar Institute, Winner of Six Invention Achievement Awards, an IBM Outstanding Technical Achievement Award and a Research Division Award
  3. Dr. Muhammad Al-Sayah [Supra-molecular Chemist], Professor, American University of Sharjah and winner of Comstech Award
  4. Prof. Ali Khademhosseini [Biologically inspired Engineer], Assoc. Prof., Harvard Medical School, President Obama’s Early Career Award
  5. Dr. AbdolReza Simchi [Nanostructures & Biomaterials], Assoc. Prof., Sharif University, Khwarzimi International Award
  6. Munir Nayfeh [Quantum Nanotechnologist], Professor, University of Illinois (UIUC), Award for Single Atom Detection
  7. Sharifah Bee Abd Hamid [Catalyst and nanomaterials], Deputy Vice Chancellor, University of Malaysia
  8. Dr. Aghil Yousefi Koma [Designer of Micro-vehicles], Professor, University of Tehran
  9. Resit Turan [The Solarizer], Director, Center for Solar Energy, Research & Applications, Metu, Turkey
  10. Muhammad Mustafa Hussain [Integrated nanotechnologist], Associate Professor, King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST), Thuwal, Saudi Arabia
  11. Halimaton Hamdan [Synthesizer of Nanostructures], Director, National Nanotechnology Directorate, Mosti, Malaysia
  12. Prof. Uda Hashim, Director [Micro-electronic Systems Engineer], Institute of Nano Electronic Engg, Malaysia
  13. Dr. Irfan S. Ahmed [Bionanotechnologist], Executive Director, Center for Nanoscale Science and Technology, University of Illinois (UIUC)
  14. Prof. Ali Eftekhari [Electrochemist & Nanoscientist], Avicenna Institute of Technology (USA)

List from: http://muslim-science.com/14-most-exciting-nanotechnologists-from-the-muslim-world/


In terms of the future, there are grassroots efforts across the Muslim world to stimulate curiosity about science among students of all ages, operating without much government support. Eminent international experts have called for comprehensive reforms to universities of the Muslim World seeking to transform societies though scientific excellence.

Let's not become blinded by one PhD dissertation and use that to make sweeping generalisations about trends in the Muslim world.
 
The only reason why any random smartass secularist internet warrior has heard about this is because Muslims, in Tunisia and beyond, raised hell about it. If this incident had been business as usual in a Muslim university, nobody would ever have heard about it.
 
fromelsewhere said:
Europeans are certainly no better (or worse) than Muslims. The bloodshed caused by the Europeans during the modern age was primarily due to 2 devastating ideologies: Nazism and Communism. Europeans have since gotten themselves rid of these stupid ideologies (there are a few exceptions, like
@Karl
who seems to still believe that Nazism is ok). The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better. I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions. Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran, because (1) it doesn't and (2) you make a fool of yourself and mislead others.
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As a Muslim, I haven't noticed any such trend. In fact, this is the first time I have come across any Muslim advocating flat earth theory. This has nothing to do with their religion, but their personal opinions. I've seen people of all kinds of backgrounds coming out with the most nonsensical pseudo-scientific theories but that doesn't mean I apply it to a whole demographic.

It seems somewhat ironic you are saying you support a science based on objective evidence and facts and yet most of what you have said here is extremely subjective and lies in personal opinion and bias.

I enjoy a good old debate on the merits of flat earth theory - but tbh the purpose of this thread seems to be using *one* thesis written by *one* Muslim to bash Islam for being anti-scientific. And this thesis has been rejected by the vast majority of the scientific community and I don't see the government of Tunisia imposing flat-earth theory on anyone.

And, the conflict in the Middle East has nothing to do with being anti-science - it is much more than that.
 
fromelsewhere said:
Europeans are certainly no better (or worse) than Muslims. The bloodshed caused by the Europeans during the modern age was primarily due to 2 devastating ideologies: Nazism and Communism. Europeans have since gotten themselves rid of these stupid ideologies (there are a few exceptions, like @Karl who seems to still believe that Nazism is ok). The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better. I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions. Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran, because (1) it doesn't and (2) you make a fool of yourself and mislead others.



I agree with your first statement, but your second seems a bit odd to me.
When did Muslims or Europeans "rule" the world? Muslims ruled over Muslim countries and Europeans ruled over European countries. Sometimes they ruled well and relatively justly, and sometimes they didn't.
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Muslims ruled the world and they spread justice, and made the Europeans pay for the Jizya! Because they tried to Attack the Muslim countries and to rape their women...!

As for the modern era, you stated Communism and Nazism (you called them a few exception, it is like they didn't caused any damage) but what about colonisalim, manifest destiny, white man's burden, Zionism (supported by the west) and so on and on and on... and even Democracy which was used by the west to destroy our countries in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria...

You also stated the Imams who are preaching hate, everyone knows in the world who is financing these idiots with money and weapon! Isn't it Europan ? Don't you know that 95% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims ? It is evident that you, Europeans have Something to do with that!

Europeans are a disease! Without you, the world will live in Peace!

So the first thing that you need to do is to stick to your rotten ideologies, and stop speaking about the Quran because it is Something that you can't even understand!
 
Muhammad said:
From one PhD dissertation which has gained popularity on various websites, you are now talking about a 'worrying trend' in the Muslim world and linking this to the chaos in the Middle East? If you knew anything about the Middle East, you would know it has very little to do with supposed anti-science messages and more about political turmoil and socio-economic challenges.

What does the dissertation have to do with imposing views onto others?

Let's not become blinded by one PhD dissertation and use that to make sweeping generalisations about trends in the Muslim world.
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So you want more examples? Ok. First, if I talk about the theory of evolution instead of "flat earth", I am sure that a lot of people on here will be against it. I don't want to make this thread about "evolution", but it remains that many people are against evolution simply because they think it contradicts with the notion of a perfect Creator. Read this column piece from The Guardian on the subject (2011): https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/mar/09/islam-science-evolution

Then, here is a recent example (Feb 2015) of a Saudi cleric spewing nonsense: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/var...ric-Sun-revolves-around-stationary-Earth.html

The late Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz also asserted that the Earth was stationary.

There are many more examples like this. It is just a minority of people who think this way, but still, there are influential people in the Muslim world who seem to be quite anti-science.
 
fromelsewhere said:
The late Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz also asserted that the Earth was stationary.
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Do you have any idea who he is, and why he is what he is? That is, are you willfully ignorant or dishonest? It's either-or if you use him to push the narrative of the OP.
 
Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;

So you want more examples? Ok. First, if I talk about the theory of evolution instead of "flat earth", I am sure that a lot of people on here will be against it.
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There are a number of reasons why we are against it.

Evolution could not happen without the guidance of God, life is too complex.

Our scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were created, so mankind do not share a common ancestor with any other species, even though our dna, is very similar to others.

And the lack of scientific detail, take the evolution of the eye. Richard Dawkins starts off by saying the eye is complex, then he reduces the complexity down to a bendy bit of cardboard, and a transparent bag of water. He even goes to say that reason tells him that eyes will evolve, and that is without the science to back it up. Take this short video of his...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9_x1wgm7E

I don't want to make this thread about "evolution", but it remains that many people are against evolution simply because they think it contradicts with the notion of a perfect Creator.
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And the science behind ToE is very shabby.

Read this column piece from The Guardian on the subject (2011): https://www.theguardian.com/comment...d. In the spirit of searching for God. Eric
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Eric H said:
Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;

There are a number of reasons why we are against it.

Evolution could not happen without the guidance of God, life is too complex.

Our scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were created, so mankind do not share a common ancestor with any other species, even though our dna, is very similar to others.
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See? You reject the theory of evolution mainly because of your scriptures. Exactly what I said. People following their faith blindly and who refuse to see or consider any evidence that may appear to contradict their deeply ingrained beliefs...
 
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fromelsewhere said:
See? You reject the theory of evolution mainly because of your scriptures. Exactly what I said. People following their faith blindly and who refuse to see or consider any evidence that may appear to contradict their deeply ingrained beliefs...
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People who are against evolution are against it based on it being rubbish, not because it contradicts their beliefs. I'd even go as far as to say most people who believe in evolution today are doing so blindly, as you put it, because in the end, they really know little to nothing about their own beliefs while being able to remember a few things that were told to them by someone else. It almost feels as if it's some kind of new social movement where people are believing in it because they're being socialized. No different than the "LGBT" movement that's going on.
 
keiv said:
People who are against evolution are against it based on it being rubbish, not because it contradicts their beliefs. I'd even go as far as to say most people who believe in evolution today are doing so blindly, as you put it, because in the end, they really know little to nothing about their own beliefs while being able to remember a few things that were told to them by someone else. It almost feels as if it's some kind of new social movement where people are believing in it because they're being socialized. No different than the "LGBT" movement that's going on.
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So how do you explain antibiotic resistance, an example of microevolution where the "fittest" bacteria survive and go on to reproduce?
 
there is no use bundling Muslims with the vatican system when it comes to scientific issues, it appears like a sleight of the hand which secularist social engineers pull with the psychological association elicitited via the term "religion" . The term used in Islam is way of life (deen), which is also applied to other systems by Allah in the Quran, ch yusuf 12 mentions - deen al malik, is translated as law/system of the king in this context since the egyptian system of the time didn't allow him to permanently take his brother by force, he got his brothers to accept it via consensus.
Anyways, if the student says the earth is flat, it's likely not based on any sound Islamic sources, and since Allah doesn't require people to believe that the earth is flat, we can be assured that this is another one of those freak anomalies, staged real events, or the now famous "fake news" pieces.
The scholars who studied and professed Islam passed the major spherical earth debates by at least the 14th century as can be seen here:

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Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 H / 1328 CE), may Allah be merciful with him, in his famous treatise, ar-Risalah al-'Arshiyah, refutes the position of the neo-Platonic philosophers who identified Allah's Throne with the ninth celestial sphere (Majmu'ul-Fatawa, Vol. 6, pp. 546-ff). In the course of his response, Ibn Taymiyah discusses the question of the earth is it round or flat? He writes:[That] celestial bodies are round (istidaaratul-aflaak) - as it is the statement of astronomers and mathematicians (ahlul-hay'ah wal-hisab) - it is [likewise] the statement of the scholars of the Muslims; as Abul-Hasan ibn al-Manaadi, Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm, Abul-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi and others have quoted: that the Muslim scholars are in agreement [that all celestial bodies are round]. Indeed Allah - taala - has said: And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak. Ibn Abbas says: A falaka like that of a spinning wheel.Ibn Taymiyah continues: The [word] falak [in the Arabic language] means that which is round. From which is the statement [of the Arabs]: <> (Vol. 6, pp. 566-567)In an earlier passage (Vol. 6, pp. 565-566), Ibn Taymiyah discusses why those on the other side of the earth are not below us, just like we are not below them. He writes:As for the other side of the earth it is surrounded by water. [Note: Admittedly, Ibn Taymiyah - as all Muslim scholars of his day- were not aware of the Americas and believed that the Old World was encompassed by an ocean.] There are no human beings or anything like that [on that side]. Even if we were to imagine that people were on that side of the earth, such individuals would still be on the face of the earth. Those on that side of the earth are not below those who are on this side; just like those on this side are not below those on that side. For as all spherical bodies surround a center point (markaz), no one side of a spherical body is under the other, nor is the north pole under the south [Note: Unlike Western maps, Muslim cartographers (map-makers) would draw the world with the south-side up.] or vice versa.In another passage (Vol. 5, p. 150) Ibn Taymiyah clearly states the earth is spherical.Significantly Abu Ya'la in his work Tabaqatal-Hanabilah (Biographical Entries of the Hanabali Scholars) quotes the unanimous consensus (ijma) of all Muslim scholars that the earth is round.This consensus was mentioned by the scholars of the second generation (the students of the Prophet's Companions) and was based upon Ibn Abbas' explanation to 21:33 (previously cited) and other evidences.The later belief of Muslim scholars, like as-Suyuti (died 911 AH / 1505 CE) that the earth is flat represents a deviation from this earlier opinion.

source cited in article:-thetruereligion.org

http://www.iupui.edu/~msaiupui/earlymuslimcon.htm
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See also:

https://islamqa.info/en/118698

Another fact that distinguishes Islam from paganism, nationalism, the queen's religion (userers' bank holy-days and sunday sabth (though she'll admit that sabth means seventh and that sunday is the first day of the week lol) etc is that once a peraon reaches the age to be able to reason, their primary reason for claiming to be a Muslim believer whilst also expecting/hoping to achieve paradise cannot be "it's what my ancestors did", "it's where I live", "coz the king/president said so" or "they forced me". One can only be a mature Muslim believer because they accepted the existence of Allah, the Prophethood of Muhammad, and the truthfulness of the Quran - through reason. i.e a person cannot believe unless they are convinced Of the truth of something.


Anyone who is compelled and accepts the laws of Islam despite their doubts is at most a Muslim due to the social necessity that exists in community living - especially in metropolitan areas (the word police comes from metropolis as opposed to "nomad" or "bedouin"), and such a person is not a believer in Islam - obviously - so they would have to be a bit warped to be discarding their reason when writing their thesis and claiming to be Muslim , unless other factors such as tribal zeal or other self interest such as debating a loon who'll argue forever gets in their way.

But we all know that it's non-Muslims who deceive themselves now via bi-polarity, falsehood, forgery, tyrannical censorship, metamphetamines (crank), cocaine, antidepressant mood lifters, and alcohol. No point trying to use parrot tactics to blame the innocent for what the guilty do. It's actually ironic lol.
 
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Abz2000 said:
Anyways, if the student says the earth is flat, it's likely not based on any sound Islamic sources, and since Allah doesn't require people to believe that the earth is flat, we can be assured that this is another one of those freak anomalies, staged real events, or the now famous "fake news" pieces.
The scholars who studied and professed Islam passed the major spherical earth debates by at least the 14th century as can be seen here:

-


See also:

https://islamqa.info/en/118698

But we all know that it's non-Muslims who deceive themselves now via bi-polarity, falsehood, forgery, tyrannical censorship, metamphetamines (crank), cocaine, antidepressant mood lifters, and alcohol. No point trying to use parrot tactics to blame the innocent for what the guilty do. It's actually ironic lol.
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Some verses from the Quran can be misinterpreted to mean that the Earth is flat: https://islamqa.info/en/211655
Although the vast majority of scholars agree that the earth is round, there have been a few (lesser scholars) who do not. They have been misinforming the public.
I think this may be the reason why the student wrote such a nonsense PhD thesis.

As for your last sentence... ;D;D;D
 
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fromelsewhere said:
Some verses from the Quran can be misinterpreted to mean that the Earth is flat: https://islamqa.info/en/211655
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The ceiling fan spins over my head very fast, just because the baby or cat thinks it's for entertainment or decor doesn't make it so.

fromelsewhere said:
Although the vast majority of scholars agree that the earth is round, there have been a few (lesser scholars) who do not. They have been misinforming the public.
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when scholars, students, scientists and laymen come to a better understanding of an issue they are required by God to put aside their ego, accept the truth and correct their opinions. The only situation in which a person is allowed to knowingly misinform anybody is if the person is in a state of conflict with the unjust untruthful and insincere and needs to divert them in order to promote the truth, or is disorienting people who are accustomed to blind and unreasonable following in order to make them question and think for themselves and thereby come to the truth (Malware definition).

fromelsewhere said:
I think this may be the reason why the student wrote such a nonsense PhD thesis.
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Since we live in the age of satellite orbits and live global communication, and the student is at degree level, It is possible that the so-called student is a shill like those trangressors who know the truth - yet go around disputing with people in order to make them stumble in order to fall and not get up and so die in a state of wrongdoing. But Allah will perfect His light however much the rejecters dislike it.


As to my last sentence, :D you know that Muslims are on the truth and will succeed despite your unreasonable jealousy. :D :D :D
 
Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;

See? You reject the theory of evolution mainly because of your scriptures. Exactly what I said.
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No, you are making a wrong assumption, you do not know the facts. I knew about the ToE for many years before I found my faith. I spent about three years searching for a faith, and in that time I also read many books on ToE and cosmology. Reason and critical thinking led me to believe in God, and to doubt the science behind evolution.

The person who made me doubt evolution the most was Richard Dawkins and his anger against God, who he clearly says does not exist. Just one example is the evolution of the eye, he is dishonest by saying the eye is as simplistic as a bendy piece of cardboard and a bag of water. Dawkin's evolution seems to exist in his imagination, because he keeps saying things like imagine if this happened, there is no hard evidence. He ignores the nervous system and the brain, which would have to evolve in stages alongside the eye. He ignores the evolution of limbs that would have to respond to information from the eye.

I am open to a more detailed explanation as to how the eye might have evolved.

People following their faith blindly and who refuse to see or consider any evidence that may appear to contradict their deeply ingrained beliefs...
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The same could be said for people following the ToE blindly; and who refuse to see or consider any evidence that may appear to contradict their deeply ingrained beliefs.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric
 
So many people bash those with strong religious faith as having 'bind belief'. No doubt that's true in some cases, but I have heard many times people who have a strong faith in science having little understanding of the theories they support, or how the scientists came to those conclusions with their methods and analysis. And a lot of the time they can't even think of there being any conflicting theory, heaven forbid, otherwise the sky comes falling down.

I hear a lot religion being a 'closed belief system' and science being an 'open belief system'. It's not so black and white.

Science has been invaluable to the understanding of the world and has really improved our standards of living - but in some ways it has replaced religious belief in secular societies. People like Darwin seem to have 'prophet' status and his written works given the importance of a scripture.

I don't know why we've been taught religion and science are in mortal combat with each other. They are both two approaches to knowledge and complement on another beautifully. Yes, there may be disagreements, but that doesn't mean we have to pit them against each other all the time.
 
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