poisoning islam

[ghengis]

certainty vs closemindedness.

they will call you backward, old fashioned, not moving with the times.... and from there perspective they are right.

we donot want to move with there times, nor do want to surf their cultural waves.
we are muslim, quran is permenant, doesnt change. environment changes around us but not our practice of islam.

our culture does not change.

from an islamic perspective when they say we are backward, they are implying we dont follow them, and we dont want to.

dont let what they say effect your islam.

a metaphore:

build your house on shifting sands??? or build it on firm foundations that dont change...

 

[ghengis]

there are many distractions everywhere, i am from the west so my comments are based on that... sorry.

islam in its purity has been fading for ages due to people shifting their beliefs and positions to fit in with the rest of the world.

distractions in other part of the world.... treat all beliefs and attitudes that are not conducive to your islamic growth as "filthy water" dont drink it. we know better as muslims.

 

[Rabi'ya]

Your posts are indeed interesting and worth pondering, but can you please enter into some kind of discussion. There is no use in repeating things until u are blue in the face if people dont understand what you are trying to say. PErhaps a more in depth explaination and discussion ??

 

[ghengis]

close mindedness vs certainty

they say you/we are close minded..... from their perspective we are infact close minded because we dont divulge in the theory of evolution, or dont like genetic engineering etc...

from our perspective they are close minded also, because they dont accept islam to be the true word of god.

 

[Rabi'ya]

tru tru, but we also have to give them the right to their own thoughts and ideas. Even if they clash with ours. Until Allah guides anyone they will not see. So its useless us putting people down and making statements which appear to people as derogatory because this further alienates then from Islam. If we are kind and gentle in our approach they may wish to learn more about Islam and as a result Allah may guide them.

May Allah guide us all Ameen

 

[ghengis]

certainty as mistook for close mindedness.

i will talk from experience: i was an unbelieving westerner once (the so called days of fun )

i was open minded, so i read the torah, the bible, the hindu scriptures and the buddhist ones, i also read the quran (sorry...i kinda skipped taoism)

so my open mindedness lead to my increasing in knowledge, and then the certainty of the quran set in, and my certainty grew.

when someone becomes certain about something... 100% belief and faith. certainty, they may be viewed as close minded, but the open minded stage of spiritual revolution has occurred and serves no real spiritual purpose anymore.

(broad generalization... i hope u understand)

so i am not, we muslims are not close minded. no, u have uttered a falsehood.
we are just so sososososo so certain.

so certain..... that i dont even need to use any new information for my salvation. it is uneeded.

all you need is the quran. u dont need to read anything else. no science if u dont want, no, irrelevent.

we are certain.

 

[Rabi'ya]

I too am a revert and seems like i went through a similar experience to u. I was dying to find out the truth and read many scriptures like urself. I spent all my time in bookshops and libraries trying to discover where life was suposed to be taking me. Alhamdulillah after many years I found Islam.

But not all humans have this longing....or even if they do perhaps other things get in the way. I take my family for example. MY own mother consistently denies Islam and whilst she does not argue with me she constantly throws points up and ridicules certain things. Still I try (TRY) to be patient with her as I pray every day that Allah will soften her heart just at the time when I am trying to tell her something important about Islam.

Close minded, from our perspective but we have a duty to be calm and caring and kind until such time(if ever) they are brought to Islam. and even if they are not, well then that does not give us the right to be rude.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from...

Quraan is fine if you do not want to go further. But the Prophet(saw) left us many examples which we also need to adhere to and follow. human nature is to prove things. and alhamdulillah science does that - and not going against the Quraan, Science is only science when it is something which proves Gods existence or His creation

 

[ghengis]

seen vs the seen and the unseen

the west (okay not the west, i aint hating...most countries these days.... west is my umbrella term for unbelieving attitudes.... sorry, i'll change that, thanks rabbiya for pointing that out..)

external vision, the seen, the measurable. the basis of science and technology, the "western worlds religion"

this is only half of life

in the quran it says "those who believe in the seen and the unseen.... are true believers"

science, or external vision can not alone give us salvation.

as muslims we believe in the unseen. that can never be measured by scientific equipment.


we believe in allah, god, one, monotheism.
prophets of old
angels and jinns exist
judgement day is a 100% certainty
heavan and hell are truths

none of this can be measured by science...

so remember the external and the internal are needed
the seen and the unseen need to be considered
scientific experiements and spiritual internal insight all need to be considered.

the "west...(soryy ) are biased to external experimental knowledge only.

they only use one arm, lobsided, incomplete......

please see through my generalizations...

understand these things.

 

[Clover]

Ghenghis, I think your spamming, cause you've made 3 posts saying the same thing, over and over, thats spamming sir.

I do not care if your from the West, that doesn't mean you should throw insults at it left and right. You insult more then any person I've seen, nearly every post you has, has some sort of insult, it's very annoying and I wish you'd stop. You've read all of them? Did you take notes, and actually discuss them with people that follow them?

Why don't you have on Way of Life Islam, and whether your a Brother or Sister?

 

[Rabi'ya]

one cannot generalise in such circumstances. IT gives rise to misunderstanding between people and upset and hurt too

 

[ghengis]

i am giving dawah to muslims in my threads , not non muslims....

therefore it may sound harsh....

this is the level of dawah giving that i feel most comfortable at.

don not grieve yourself over there unbelief.

improve your own religion. purify yourself and lead by example.

that is the best dawah.

i don not mean to be derogatory.

but just as you need to learn the alphabet before you learn spelling, they may need to believe in god and have a basic understanding in islam before they understand my posts.


not hating. i love all people. but i have seen flaws in my muslim peers and myself. and most of these flaws come from accepting false doctrines that arise out of islam and rolling them off of your tongue as the truth because u lack the necassary knowledge.

i just want to point out a few "trip up areas" in belief and attitude, that will occur on the path of spiritual progression....


discussion soon..... i just need to get it out right now ;O

 

[Rabi'ya]

whilst i appreciate what youre trying to do I really think it is not the best way to do it. Why not participate in the many threads and discussions we have here and why not try to start some specific threads to alert people to things which u feel we have weaknesses in.

 

[Clover]

i am giving dawah to muslims in my threads , not non muslims....

therefore it may sound harsh....

this is the level of dawah giving that i feel most comfortable at.

don not grieve yourself over there unbelief.

improve your own religion. purify yourself and lead by example.

that is the best dawah.

i don not mean to be derogatory.

but just as you need to learn the alphabet before you learn spelling, they may need to believe in god and have a basic understanding in islam before they understand my posts.


not hating. i love all people. but i have seen flaws in my muslim peers and myself. and most of these flaws come from accepting false doctrines that arise out of islam and rolling them off of your tongue as the truth because u lack the necassary knowledge.

i just want to point out a few "trip up areas" in belief and attitude, that will occur on the path of spiritual progression....


discussion soon..... i just need to get it out right now ;O

If you love all people, then stop insulting them. That's all I gotta say about that.

 

[ghengis]

i am glad clover u see the commonality in my threads....

people in my opinion need to be warned of these

most islamic people are subconsciously accepting these false doctrines and combining it with their islam, producing a hybrid islamic modernist movement thingimijig... lol

that is corruption. corruption of islam occuring covertly.

i am trying to make my people a little more aware.... because i made these mistakes...
i used to think i was a muslim, and still say things like "there can only be one champ, survival of the fittest etcetcetc "

the words i spoke contradicted my complete faith of islam..... and hindered my spiritual purification progress.... and caused much internal angst that i couldnt pinpoint for ages.

i had drunk the filthy water and was suffering the consequences of accepting non islamic doctrines into my islamic inner world.

may god forgive me and guide us all.

 

[ghengis]

just read.... there are some that understand me perfectly.

 

[ghengis]

pure islam metaphore

"imagine wearing one of those astronaut "fish bowl hats" outfits on.

now blank out you mind.... and imagine being a blank slate. take everything out of your mind.

now only put quran and islam in.... let it integrate inside of you. and take everything non islamic out

your world... your let in your mind what you want. so be vigilant what you let in.

if you want to improve your islam you have 2 methods.

1) get rid of the junk, the stuff you dont want
2)increase the amount of the stuff you want

 

[Clover]

just read.... there are some that understand me perfectly.

I understand that your worried about Islam, and it's people, thats fine by me, but insulting people, and cultures, that's not. Insults will get you no where, and I hope you learn that, cause the sooner you do, the more successful you will be.

 

[Rabi'ya]

perhaps you could alert people a little less publicly or perhaps create a general thread concerning the action/s which you feel are wrong.

 

[Clover]

perhaps you could alert people a little less publicly or perhaps create a general thread concerning the action/s which you feel are wrong.

You talking to me or Genghis?

 

[Rabi'ya]

lol well i was talking to ghengis but we can all do with a reminder of not bringin peoples faults into public view