poisoning islam

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nope..... this is how it is.

and u know it.

more public the better.

this is called the islamic boarrd right???
 
Rabi'ya said:
lol well i was talking to ghengis but we can all do with a reminder of not bringin peoples faults into public view
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When people insult others constantly in public, I do not see what is wrong about pointing it out in public.
 
not personal faults...


lets just say these are faults i had.... and if other people had them or may come across them then it might help.
 
talk freely people.... talk freely. my skin is very thick.
 
Hugo - why did you leave out Islam?
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I write as pleases me, do you have a problem with that?

Hugo said:
As usual you cannot answer any question and instead offer a 20,000 word essay and so bring the discussion to a halt.
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You have no questions, you only have assertions.
I have covered the topic ad nauseam all you but to do is use the search feature!

It is always possibles to assign probabilities to events and that might be useful but it's not proof of anything. I assume because you used this long essay dealing with that idea that you agree that evolution is at least a possibility.
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As possible as you taking on a few base pairs through some jumping gene or framshift mutation developing gargoyle wings and flying, Of course!
I am open minded about it personally and to me it has no effect whatever on my faith and I cannot see that either the Bible or the Qu'ran dismisses it unless you take the impossible route that everything written in either book must be taken absolutely literally. The scriptures were never intended to be science text books and what we have to use them for is hearing what God is saying to us then and now.
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Correct, the Quran doesn't say anything about evolution and one of God's names 'al baree' means the evolver.. also confirmed by suret al'waqi3a.. I have problems with evolution from a scientific stand not a religious one.. However, I don't see the bible being in concert with any of it, given the dark ages and the history of the church.. I believe history is a perfect example with which religions is compatible with science and which isn't...


all the best
 
Hugo - why did you leave out Islam?
As usual you cannot answer any question and instead offer a 20,000 word essay and so bring the discussion to a halt.
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Gossamer skye said:
I write as pleases me, do you have a problem with that? You have no questions, you only have assertions.
You have no questions, you only have assertions.

Hugo - please see my question above, it does not look like an assertion. You listed many faiths but why leave out Islam? Of course you may write as you please but when it comes to baseless assertions about what others have written that is another matter and inserting a 20,000 words essay into a discussion board is hardly offering a salient and lucid response is it because you must know that no one is going to read it?

The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution and one of God's names 'al baree' means the evolver.. also confirmed by suret al'waqi3a.. I have problems with evolution from a scientific stand not a religious one.. However, I don't see the bible being in concert with any of it, given the dark ages and the history of the church.. I believe history is a perfect example with which religions is compatible with science and which isn't... all the best
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The Bible is what it is. a revelation from God, anyone one can take it or leave it just as any one can take or leave what the Qu'ran has to say. I have no particular issues with evolution from a scientific (I am not a biologist) or religious point of view. What matters to me is how we work out our faith in everyday life and I cannot see that Evolution has much to say on that score so it's of no great concern to me. Nice to talk with you
 
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Hugo - please see my question above, it does not look like an assertion. You listed many faith but why leave out Islam? Of course you may write as you please but when it comes to baseless assertions about what others have written that is another matter and inserting a 20,000 words essay into a discussion board is hardly offering a salient and lucid response is it?
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I have seen your questions indeed, I see nothing save an assertion that evolution is correct because there are many sources backing it up. That is not a question nor is it a testimony to the truth. It is in fact exactly as I have deemed it an assertion, use the dictionary and define the terms for yourself if you are having difficulty otherwise?...

The research is very sound and lucid, anyone with minor common sense and basic understanding of biology not even on a molecular level and an ability to read, can understand the issues raised and that need a resolution when it comes to evolution.

Until such a time, you can present us in a like manner your unassailable thesis and able to defend and cover all your loop holes, can you come here with this type of bravado!




The Bible is what it is. a revelation from God, anyone one can take it or leave it just as any one can take or leave what the Qu'ran has to say. I have no particular issues with evolution from a scientific (I am not a biologist) or religious point of view. What matters to me is how we work out faith out in everyday life and I cannot see that Evolution has much to say on that score so it's of no great concern to me.

Nice to talk with you
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If it is of no great concern to you, then why bring it up in a thread and only cower when major loopholes are elucidated? You know the saying, pls either put up or shut up.. But don't throw words around and then cringe at the thought of someone challenging you on it.

If you are interested in reading about islamic scholars and scientists then I am sure a simple google search would yield you millions of results..

all the best
 
Hugo, I'd also like to know why you left Islam, although, if you don't answer, I don't hold no ill will, I am just curious.
 
Clover said:
Hugo, I'd also like to know why you left Islam, although, if you don't answer, I don't hold no ill will, I am just curious.
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He is speaking of why I left Islam out as an example not as a way of life..
simply I think you can get the message with two or three examples.. no point in protracting a metaphor and beating it to death!

May Allah swt make us steadfast on Iman, die with shahada on our lips and accept the best of our deeds and grant us paradise's high meed.. ameen
 
Gossamer skye said:
He is speaking of why I left Islam out as an example not as a way of life..
simply I think you can get the message with two or three examples.. no point in protracting a metaphor and beating it to death!

May Allah swt make us steadfast on Iman, die with shahada on our lips and accept the best of our deeds and grant us paradise's high meed.. ameen
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I didn't know you left Islam?

I am really lost atm, but ok.
 
Gossamer skye said:
what are you talking about? pls read every post on this thread..

peace
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Nevermind, I read your post wrong, I get it. I have read just about every post already, except for maybe 2-3 that weren't in the major discussions.
 
Re: poisoning islam from within

Gossamer skye said:
I have seen your questions indeed, I see nothing save an assertion that evolution is correct because there are many sources backing it up. That is not a question nor is it a testimony to the truth. It is in fact exactly as I have deemed it an assertion, use the dictionary and define the terms for yourself if you are having difficulty otherwise?...

Hugo - I cannot recall making any assertions about evolution, indeed I made it plain that I have an open mind about the matter.

The research is very sound and lucid, anyone with minor common sense and basic understanding of biology not even on a molecular level and an ability to read, can understand the issues raised and that need a resolution when it comes to evolution.

Hugo - I take this to mean that you are convinced by the arguments for evolution?

Until such a time, you can present us in a like manner your unassailable thesis and able to defend and cover all your loop holes, can you come here with this type of bravado!

Hugo - I have no unassailable thesis and I doubt any good scientist would say that they have. Indeed it the essence of science to remain sceptical and it's obvious that we have not come to the end of knowing new things so I fail to see what point you are making?

If it is of no great concern to you, then why bring it up in a thread and only cower when major loopholes are elucidated? You know the saying, pls either put up or shut up.. But don't throw words around and then cringe at the thought of someone challenging you on it.

Hugo - I said it was no great concern of mine as far as my faith is concerned. I made a post because to me it is unreasonable to simply say evolution is wrong and it is designed to destroy faith because I see no sign of Islam or Christianity or any other religion collapsing over the issue.

If you are interested in reading about islamic scholars and scientists then I am sure a simple google search would yield you millions of results.. all the best
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Yes I am interested in reading any scholar or scientist and I am unable to understand what it might mean to be an Islamic scientist as if there is an Islamic Ohms law or Islamic penicillin. Let us have a list of say your top 5 Islamic scientists, what University they work at and then we can see what their international standing is, where they appear in Journals or citation indexes or books. Interestingly, an article appeared in New Scientist (I posted this in another thread some weeks ago) which perhaps gives a picture of the quality of science emerging let's say from the Islamic world and its not an encouraging one.

Reported in New Scientist 5th July 2008
Jim al-Khalili talks about the biography of the Pakistani physicist Abdus Salam who won the Nobel prize for Physics in 1979 for his work on unifying the 4 forces of nature. Salam's theory is regarded as one of the most beautiful ideas in physics but he did not stop there and created The Centre for Theoretical Physics in Trieste, Italy to support researchers from developing countries.

Salam stands as the greatest Islamic physicist for 1,000 years and not since the 11th century polymath Ibn al-Haytham has there been a more influential figure in the field. Salam was born in the Punjab in 1926 and was a devout Muslim all his life but in his homeland was hounded by obscurantists leading to his excommunication from Pakistan because he adhered to the relatively obscure Ahmadis sect.

Khalili states unequivocally that it is to Pakistan's eternal shame that its greatest scientist was not acknowledged because of narrow-minded intolerance toward his brand of religion and until such eminent men (or women) are given the respect they deserve there can be no true Islamic renaissance in science. One might note that Pakistan and Islam are not the only country and religion to act in such a poor fashion to its best contrymen and women.

Nevertheless, he worked tirelessly to promote science in the Islamic world and lobbied world leaders and the UN for funding to help science in developing countries. Not since Einstein has any one scientist been so influential on the world stage.

To read the full biography see: "Cosmic Anger: The First Muslim Nobel Scientist", by Gordon Fraser, Oxford University Press, ISBN 9780199208463
 
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Re: poisoning islam from within

Hugo - I cannot recall making any assertions about evolution, indeed I made it plain that I have an open mind about the matter.
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Then let's refresh your memory--You wrote:
Hugo said:
We all have to guard our faith but we cannot do that by ignoring everything can we? Its fine for you to not believe in evolution but let's here you evidence. Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it
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and that is indeed what I commented on as well included a large scientific piece on the matter.. who are you kidding?




Hugo - I take this to mean that you are convinced by the arguments for evolution?
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What is the argument of evolution? Don't throw open-ended discussion and allow for any sort of spontaneous response.. if you have specific points bring them to the table!


Hugo - I have no unassailable thesis and I doubt any good scientist would say that they have. Indeed it the essence of science to remain sceptical and it's obvious that we have not come to the end of knowing new things so I fail to see what point you are making?
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The point I am making goes back to your first statement and I quote the latter point:
Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it
​
we have offered you another body of evidence placing a number of holes in that large body!



Hugo - I said it was no great concern of mine as far as my faith is concerned. I made a post because to me it is unreasonable to simply say evolution is wrong and it is designed to destroy faith because I see no sign of Islam or Christianity or any other religion collapsing over the issue.
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I don't think anyone said 'evolution is wrong because it destroys faith' folks have their reservations on why it is wrong and why some use it to denounce God, even if evolution were the correct order of events, you'd still have a large mystery on the origin of life!




Yes I am interested in reading any scholar or scientist and I am unable to understand what it might mean to be an Islamic scientist as if there is an Islamic Ohms law or Islamic penicillin. Let us have a list of say your top 5 Islamic scientists, what University they work at and then we can see what their international standing is, where they appear in Journals or citation indexes or books. Interestingly, an article appeared in New Scientist (I posted this in another thread some weeks ago) which perhaps gives a picture of the quality of science emerging let's say from the Islamic world and its not an encouraging one.
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Here is a list of Islamic scholars/ scientists old and new




[edit] Astronomers and Astrophysicists

Main article: List of Muslim astronomers
Further information: Islamic astronomy



[edit] Chemists and Alchemists

Further information: Alchemy (Islam)



[edit] Economists and Social Scientists

Further information: Islamic sociology, Early Muslim sociology, and Islamic economics in the world
See also: List of Muslim historians and Historiography of early Islam



[edit] Geographers and Earth Scientists

Further information: Muslim Agricultural Revolution




Abdullahi Anshur Jimale

[edit] Mathematicians

Further information: Islamic mathematics: Biographies



[edit] Biologists, Neuroscientists and Psychologists

Further information: Islamic psychological thought



[edit] Physicians and Surgeons

Main article: Muslim doctors
Further information: Islamic medicine



[edit] Physicists & Engineers

Further information: Islamic physics



[edit] Political Scientists




[edit] Other scientists and inventors




[edit] References



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_____________

I fail to see your point, visit any university or hospital and see who their top doctors and surgeons are, go to duke search index, go to John's Hopkins, go to George Washington university.

Are you a part of the academic circle to know what Muslims are famous or not? firstly they were deemed Islamic scholars and scientists because there was a Muslim empire, now aside from their names, no one can claim them a scientist for a religion -- rather a nationality.

Alot of the medications out on the market today are an effort of Muslims with PhD's ..
pcn was an accidental find and folks got along without it just fine for centuries, they had other herbs and surgery and managed longevity. Folks might not have suffered our modern maladies at all a thousand years ago, what was prevelant then might not be now and vice versa, what is your point?

PCN in and of itself is completly worthless today barely decades after its discovery and largely restricted in use to syphillis ( a sexually transmitted disease common amidst westerners) so indeed it is a good thing they 'discovered' it to save their kings and papuers alike-- you are under the impression that an accidental find equates with pioneering?

Go educate yourself fellow, don't read two statements from a google search or a shady email and think you've mustered religion/science and world history and then come make a moot point with a silly paste.
You are neither happy with evidence, nor are you happy with what folks write backed up by credible history.. that is your problem so work on it on your private time, I really hate wasting my own time on the nonsense that you spew and every chance you get!

all the best
 
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:sl:

I'm not sure where this thread is going, but I'm pretty sure we are way off-topic here. Perhaps we would all do well to take note of the following reminder:

Rabi'ya said:
Until Allah guides anyone they will not see. So its useless us putting people down and making statements which appear to people as derogatory because this further alienates then from Islam. If we are kind and gentle in our approach they may wish to learn more about Islam and as a result Allah may guide them.

May Allah guide us all :( Ameen
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Aameen.

Thread closed.
 
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