Polyandry

[------]

:salamext:

i'm fine man

sheesh

stop behaving with me like i'm 5 or sumfing

ufff guys these days

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ no im behaving like you in the manner i would behave with someone who stepped so close to kufr without realising it.


an-nabi sallallahi alaihi wasallaam was worried bout his ummah remember, like flies to a fire, the fires blazing for you right now sis ahlaam, so just be careful.

and seriously try get a more positive attitude. its not nice to react stubborn when people try help you

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:salamext:

i'm fine man

sheesh

stop behaving with me like i'm 5 or sumfing

ufff guys these days

what would you do/how would you react if you heard someone say what you just said? would you be taken aback?

 

[------]

:salamext:

I didnt mean it in the way u people think! i just dont like the idea of men marrying more than once because NOT MANY men nowadays can treat people fairly! so stop jumping down my THROAT!!!!!!!!

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

for god sake, im not! seriously, you cant put something like that in a vague perspective (which you did, i may add) and not expect people to react...
just for the record, i was shocked at what you said in your edit. peace, sis....

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Let me first state emphatically, that the foundation of an Islamic society is justice and equity. Allah has created men and women as equal, but with different capabilities and different responsibilities. Men and women are different, physiologically and psychologically. Their roles and responsibilities are different. Men and women are equal in Islam, but not identical.

Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verses 22 to 24 gives the list of women with who you can not marry and it is further mentions in Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verse 24"Also (prohibited are) women already married"

Qur`an is the only religion on the face of the earth that allows men having up till four wives, Allah says in the Holy Qur'an:

[4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.

Before the Qur`an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had many wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.

In the same chapter (Sura Al-Nisa) Allah says in verse 129, Allah says:

[4:129] You will never be able to be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else). If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, Allah is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

 

[Azy]

If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have.
-
You will never be able to be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try.

Doesn't that whole paragraph seem like a contradiction to you? Why set a number of wives you're allowed if Allah himself knows and states you can't possibly be fair with more than one.

And regarding the MaiCarInMtl equality piece, that's so riddled with nonsense it isn't funny.

Often men are the main breadwinners in the family (due to biological reasons: women cannot usually work for the entirety of their pregnancy and time to recover is needed. This can often affect you job/career and money coming in). So for a woman to have 1,2,3, etc husbands, it would put a lot of stress on her both biologically (constant pregnancies), socially (take care of children) and professionally (if she is often pregnant, then there is no time for work and money making). Men don't have to take time away from work when their family expands.

1) A woman can have children if and when she wants, she doesn't need to be a baby machine for her husband(s). This situation could easily arise if she was one of many wives to one man.
2) Who said the women are obliged to look after the kids?
3) If you had 4 husbands and 1 wife surely you would be in a much better financial situation according to these rules.

More along the line of biology, the survival of the species depends on procreation. The easiest way to procreate is to have a higher female:male ratio. It's basic biology and reproduction.

The human race is hardly struggling to survive is it? Even if we did need to boost the population, by marrying more than one woman, you're not increasing the female:male ratio overall, just the ratio in that house.

 

[Mikayeel]

Doesn't that whole paragraph seem like a contradiction to you? Why set a number of wives you're allowed if Allah himself knows and states you can't possibly be fair with more than one.

Can a mother love all her childeren equally? NO, she might say she does, but there is always one who she loves more.

Same here, a man can marry 4 women in no way he will love them all equall!
That however does not mean he can't spent the same amount of time with them, he can't spent the same amount of money on them.

By the way islam is the only religion that sets an amount of women a man can marry. No other religion has it, rather now its something more cultural.

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Average life span of females is more than that of males By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. During paediatric age however, in childhood itself a female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, there are more deaths among males as compared to the females during paediatric age.

During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million more females in USA who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays) I think! There would be more than four million females in Great Britain 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.

Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second. There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.

 

[Azy]

Same here, a man can marry 4 women in no way he will love them all equall!
That however does not mean he can't spent the same amount of time with them, he can't spent the same amount of money on them.

Are those the important aspects of marriage? You're simply ignoring the fact it says that you can't treat them equally however hard you try, and talks about a wife's happiness, which i doubt is measured in money and time.

For this reason, there are more deaths among males as compared to the females during paediatric age

UK Infant mortality example - The difference in sexes is about 500 per year for a population of 65 million.

The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

Undoubtedly, but are these widows are mostly of retirement age. Would they perhaps be better off being cared for by other family or professional care rather than marrying someone who would have trouble looking after himself, or taking on a much younger husband?

Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million more females in USA who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays) I think!

What happened to the lesbians and where did you get that statistic? The USA has approximately 143m females and 138m males, a 5 million difference. 4 million of that difference is in the 65+ age range that I already mentioned (going by the US census website) .

If you look at census statistics there are roughly 120 single men for every 100 single women in the young adult range.

[/QUOTE=RighteousLady]Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second. There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.[/QUOTE]All well and good but why does it not allow a women to marry many men when they situation is reversed, as it is not at all an uncommon occurence.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

By the way islam is the only religion that sets an amount of women a man can marry. No other religion has it, rather now its something more cultural.

Incorrect, Sikhism says one wife (or husband) no more!

 

[Mikayeel]

Are those the important aspects of marriage? You're simply ignoring the fact it says that you can't treat them equally however hard you try, and talks about a wife's happiness, which i doubt is measured in money and time.

You can't treat them equally when it comes to love! No these are not the major points of a marriage!

Can't treat them equally when it comes to love, does not say don't love them at all.

 

[Azy]

You can't treat them equally when it comes to love! No these are not the major points of a marriage!

Exactly.

Can't treat them equally when it comes to love, does not say don't love them at all.

No, it says don't marry them because you know you can't treat them equally.

 

[sur]

Where exactly did you get your information from?

if u mean hormonal levels or role of testosterone in libido !!!! then i got it from medical books.

Let's suppose your findings are true... What should a man with 1000 ng of testosterone per dl do if he marries 4 women each having 20ng/dl? He'd be 12,5 times hornier than all of his wifes combined.

it was just to show men having more urge than women. Any ratio hopefully would be comforted with upto 4 wives.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Polygynous Blessings: Musings of a Muslim Wife.
By: Aneesa Azeez

http://stores.lulu.com/poly_blessings
http://www.polygynousexpressions.com/index.html

Let it be known that my intent in writing this book has never been to highlight the faults and shortcomings of any individual; rather, my intent has been to clarify some of the common misconceptions of polygyny in Islaam, as well as provide a personal outlook on both the trials and the blessings of being a wife in a polygynous marriage, in order that my dear sisters in Islaam might find their hearts softened to the prospect of sharing a husband. If I have in any way offended anyone with my work, then I apologize, seek forgiveness for this and ask that Allaah Subhaanahu wa Ta’aalaa will pardon me for my shortcomings and forgive me my sins.
​

 

[Whatsthepoint]

if u mean hormonal levels or role of testosterone in libido !!!! then i got it from medical books.
it was just to show men having more urge than women. Any ratio hopefully would be comforted with upto 4 wives.

I was actually wondering were did you get the idea that the level of testosterone and sexual desire are exclusively and directly proportional.
The average ratio is more than 10, as you already spotted, so...

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Incorrect, Sikhism says one wife (or husband) no more!

buddhism discourages polygamy.

 

[MaiCarInMtl]

And regarding the MaiCarInMtl equality piece, that's so riddled with nonsense it isn't funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
Often men are the main breadwinners in the family (due to biological reasons: women cannot usually work for the entirety of their pregnancy and time to recover is needed. This can often affect you job/career and money coming in). So for a woman to have 1,2,3, etc husbands, it would put a lot of stress on her both biologically (constant pregnancies), socially (take care of children) and professionally (if she is often pregnant, then there is no time for work and money making). Men don't have to take time away from work when their family expands.

1) A woman can have children if and when she wants, she doesn't need to be a baby machine for her husband(s). This situation could easily arise if she was one of many wives to one man.
2) Who said the women are obliged to look after the kids?
3) If you had 4 husbands and 1 wife surely you would be in a much better financial situation according to these rules.

Hi Azy, thank you for dragging me into this conversation: next time you would like to say I am speaking nonsense, please make sure that I am actually taking part of the conversation and if you have any questions or comments concerning what I said, address me directly so that I may further explain my points - it is easier to get your point across when no one is there to debate you. That being said...

1) Certainly women do have a certain amount of control over pregnancy, but you must also keep in mind that birth control isn't always readily available (depending on where one lives or their financial situation) or a safe option (back-alley abortions are often an option but are far from safe). If a man has more options, then chances are the frequency of pregnancies could possibly be lowered (seeking out other(s) while one is at peak fertility, etc).
2) I was talking about most societal contexts, not necessarily western context. I hate to burst your bubble, but females are still more likely to be assigned/take on the task of child care-taker. How many stay-at-home moms do you know? How many stay-at-home dads do you know? There is a major difference even in our "equalitarian" western society.
3) Yes, you would be! (there's no arguing that point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
More along the line of biology, the survival of the species depends on procreation. The easiest way to procreate is to have a higher female:male ratio. It's basic biology and reproduction.

The human race is hardly struggling to survive is it? Even if we did need to boost the population, by marrying more than one woman, you're not increasing the female:male ratio overall, just the ratio in that house.

Azy, please notice I was talking about biology and how reproduction and the body works, not about our current over-population problem. The human race wasn't always made up of 6 billion + people. Things change.

Also, I wasn't talking of increasing the female:male ratio, I was talking of increasing the population numbers. The best way to increase numbers is to maximize the fertility window: one male to many females. Trust me, they use it in breeding all the time because it works.

Perhaps you should go back to the original thread my post was taken from so you can better understand my stance on this whole issue. While I do understand that biologically it helps increase population numbers in a quick and efficient manner, and that in the context of most societies, it seems to be the system that works better than polyandry, I myself would never accept my husband to even conceive of doing something with another woman, much less marry another woman! I am firmly implanted in the "I do not share, I am not to be shared" way of thinking. Others can do what they will, but this rule will never change for me.

 

[Umar001]

Doesn't that whole paragraph seem like a contradiction to you? Why set a number of wives you're allowed if Allah himself knows and states you can't possibly be fair with more than one.

Would that not depend on the way fairness is understood? What we feel is fair treatment may not be what the author of the Qur'an feels it is.

 

[Azy]

Would that not depend on the way fairness is understood? What we feel is fair treatment may not be what the author of the Qur'an feels it is.

What difference does that distinction make when god has dictated that you can't possibly be fair with them. I keep getting reminded that he knows best.

Hi Azy, thank you for dragging me into this conversation

Yeah, sorry about that, I think I got a little worked up when I was posting. Someone else quoted you and I couldn't really see how it was entirely relevant, as a few people here seem to like posting huge chunks of text without explaining their point.

1) Certainly women do have a certain amount of control over pregnancy, but you must also keep in mind that birth control isn't always readily available (depending on where one lives or their financial situation) or a safe option (back-alley abortions are often an option but are far from safe). If a man has more options, then chances are the frequency of pregnancies could possibly be lowered (seeking out other(s) while one is at peak fertility, etc).

It's not a great choice is it, but it still sounds like a case of a man just wanting to have his sexual release and then let the women deal with the outcome. Perhaps if he just kept it in his pants until his wife is ready.

2) I was talking about most societal contexts, not necessarily western context. I hate to burst your bubble, but females are still more likely to be assigned/take on the task of child care-taker. How many stay-at-home moms do you know? How many stay-at-home dads do you know? There is a major difference even in our "equalitarian" western society.

I fully appreciate that, but my point was simply that the only hard and fast rules are the ones made by men in a strongly patriarchal society. If daddy wanted to give mommy a break and look after the kids, that wouldn't be abnormal, but I can't see that happening in middle eastern cultures which folk on this board keep saying treat women more equally than the western world.