Prophet Jesus (pbuh) never drank Alcoholic Wine

[MustafaMc]

I see no evidence in the Bible saying drinking alcohol is sinful.

I agree with you and neither does it say anything about gambling (to my knowledge) even though many Christian will tell you that both are wrong. My dad (Christian) was not particularly religious, but he was dead set against gambling and drinking alcohol. Quoting from the Qur'an, "They ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." 2:219 Given the high potential for addiction and the potentially extreme adverse effects of those addictions, I would have to agree with what the Qur'an says.

 

[TG123]

I agree with you and neither does it say anything about gambling (to my knowledge) even though many Christian will tell you that both are wrong. My dad (Christian) was not particularly religious, but he was dead set against gambling and drinking alcohol. Quoting from the Qur'an, "They ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." 2:219 Given the high potential for addiction and the potentially extreme adverse effects of those addictions, I would have to agree with what the Qur'an says.

Does the Quran also ban taking painkillers? Very high potential for addiction and terrible effects on those who take them.

Does it ban fast food? Have you seen people who eat at MacDonalds every day? Are you aware of the scale of obesity and related deaths?

 

[جوري]

Does the Quran also ban taking painkillers? Very high potential for addiction and terrible effects on those who take them.

rules of Islamic medical ethics are 1) Necessity overrides prohibition that is if there are certain items which are islamically prohibited, under dire necessity they can become permissible. 2) Accept the lesser of the two harms if both can not be avoided. 3) Public interest overrides the individual interest. 4) Harm has to be removed at every cost if possible. Islamic Medical Ethics also upholds the four basic principles of biomedical ethics which are 1) Respect for the autonomy, 2) Beneficence, 3) Nonmaleficence, and 4) Distributive Justice.

http://www.isna.net/Leadership/pages/Islamic-Medical-Ethics.aspx

taking pain killers and taking the edge off are two different categories wouldn't you agree?

 

[TG123]

rules of Islamic medical ethics are 1) Necessity overrides prohibition that is if there are certain items which are islamically prohibited, under dire necessity they can become permissible. 2) Accept the lesser of the two harms if both can not be avoided. 3) Public interest overrides the individual interest. 4) Harm has to be removed at every cost if possible. Islamic Medical Ethics also upholds the four basic principles of biomedical ethics which are 1) Respect for the autonomy, 2) Beneficence, 3) Nonmaleficence, and 4) Distributive Justice.



taking pain killers and taking the edge off are two different categories wouldn't you agree?

Some people choose to suffer in pain rather than take painkillers, so taking a methadone is not a "dire necessity". What do you mean by "taking the edge off"?

 

[جوري]

Some people choose to suffer in pain rather than take painkillers, so taking a methadone is not a "dire necessity". What do you mean by "taking the edge off"?

Pain is subjective although we can have physical signs of it- you're neither the patient nor the doctor so 'some people' per you is inconsequential here!

best,

 

[TG123]

Pain is subjective although we can have physical signs of it- you're neither the patient nor the doctor so 'some people' per you is inconsequential here!

best,

I didn't say "some people" meant me. Stop making assumptions.

You didn't answer my question. What do you mean by 'taking the edge off'?

 

[جوري]

I didn't say "some people" meant me. Stop making assumptions.

You didn't answer my question. What do you mean by 'taking the edge off'?

none questions get non answers.
As for 'taking the edge off' use the dictionary - you seem to exhibit problems with doing minor research whether on this thread or the other!

 

[TG123]

none questions get non answers.
As for 'taking the edge off' use the dictionary - you seem to exhibit problems with doing minor research whether on this thread or the other!

I wanted you to define it, so we are on the same page. Do you mean drinking to avoid problems?

 

[جوري]

There ya go there ya go .. Fantastic!

 

[TG123]

There ya go there ya go .. Fantastic!

Aside from the sarcasm, you mispelled the word "you", but at least we are on the same page now.

I drink rarely, and never do that when I am stressed out. In fact, when you are stressed, that is the time to not drink. Drinking to avoid stress is a classic symptom of alcoholism. None of my friends who drink occasionally drink when they are stressed out or trying "to take the edge off" as you say.

A small cup of wine or beer is good sometimes with a meal. It is just as good as a cup of water or juice.

If you assume people who drink alcohol do it to escape stress, you are making (yet another) false assumption. Some do. Those who do are usually alcoholics. Most of us don't.

 

[جوري]

Aside from the sarcasm, you mispelled the word "you", but at least we are on the same page now.

I misspelled it on purpose and speaking of 'misspelled' haha.. don't you just love irony?

I drink rarely, and never do that when I am stressed out. In fact, when you are stressed, that is the time to *not *drink. Drinking to avoid stress is a classic symptom of alcoholism. None of my friends who drink occasionally drink when they are stressed out or trying "to take the edge off" as you say.

How does this concern me or the topic?

A small cup of wine or beer is good sometimes with a meal. It is just as good as a cup of water or juice.

again point being?

If you assume people who drink alcohol do it to escape stress, you are making (yet another) false assumption. Some do. Those who do are usually alcoholics. Most of us don't.

I have made no such assumption - I don't really care for the reasons. My reply was per your medicinal purposes.

best,

 

[TG123]

I misspelled it on purpose and speaking of 'misspelled' haha.. don't you just love irony?

LOL you got me there.

How does this concern me or the topic?

again point being?

I have made no such assumption - I don't really care for the reasons. My reply was per your medicinal purposes.

best,

Did you not write this:

taking pain killers and taking the edge off are two different categories wouldn't you agree?

In effect, you made the assumption that people who drink do so to escape their problems. That is the case for a minority of those who do so, not most of us.

 

[جوري]

LOL you got me there.

Indeed!


Did you not write this:

taking pain killers and taking the edge off are two different categories wouldn't you agree?

In effect, you made the assumption that people who drink do so to escape their problems. That is the case for a minority of those who do so, not most of us.


[/QUOTE]

in response to this:

Does the Quran also ban taking painkillers? Very high potential for addiction and terrible effects on those who take them.
?

and your point being? I have already listed Islamic medical ethics, which state the conditions when prohibition is usurped.. Do you understand the premise? so we're not wasting posts upon posts on nonsense![/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

 

[TG123]

Indeed!


Did you not write this:

taking pain killers and taking the edge off are two different categories wouldn't you agree?

In effect, you made the assumption that people who drink do so to escape their problems. That is the case for a minority of those who do so, not most of us.

in response to this:



and your point being? I have already listed Islamic medical ethics, which state the conditions when prohibition is usurped.. Do you understand the premise? so we're not wasting posts upon posts on nonsense![/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]
My point is that you made a false assumption about people who drink alcohol, judging the majority by the minority... similarly to how some view Muslims.

Thank you for sharing the Islamic medical ethics info. It seems you believe that alcohol and drugs can be taken only in dire circumstances.


Do you feel the same way about fast food and sweets? Taken in excess, they cause obesity and that contributes to a multitude of social problems and deaths.

 

[جوري]

It seems you believe that alcohol and drugs can be taken only in dire circumstances.

How is alcohol a medication? unless it is used as a solvent which it is rarely!

Do you feel the same way about fast food and sweets? Taken in excess, they cause obesity and that contributes to a multitude of social problems and deaths.

Indeed obesity is frowned upon in Islam:
The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) warned us about the dangers and health hazards of overeating.
He advised us to fill our stomach with 1/3 food, 1/3 for drink, and 1/3 for air.
On the authority of Al-Miqdaam ibn Maadiy-Karib who said: I heard the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saying: “No human ever filled a vessel worse than the stomach. Sufficient for any son of Adam are some morsels to keep his back straight. But if it must be, then one third for his food, one third for his drink and one third for his breath.” [Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasaa'I, Ibn Majah – Hadith sahih]
He also warned us about the perils of overeating.
On seeing a fat man, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said: “If you did not have a paunch (belly fat), it would be better for you. He also said: Overeating does not go with good health.” [Al-Haythami]
Try to remember this general rule: Eat to satisfy your hunger but not till you feel full.“Do not cast yourselves into destruction by your own hands.” (2:195)

___________________________

we have the holy month of Ramadan to teach us how to be patient, how to empathize with those who are hungry all year round and to detox..
so your point being?

 

[Predator]

The Bible prohibits the consumption of wine (Leviticus 10:9, Proverbs 4:17, 20:1).

Do not drink wine nor strong drink (Leviticus 10:9)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Pro&chapter=20&verse=1&version=kjvWine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)

For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. (Proverbs 4:17)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa028.html#7But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink;they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment. (Isaiah 28:7)

Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth. (Joel 1:5)

*****dom and wine and new wine take away the heart. (Hosea 4:11)

According to the Bible, the Prophet Noah got drunk! (God forbid)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=9&verse=20&version=kjvAnd Noah began [to be] an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father,and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid [it] upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces [were] backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=9&verse=24&version=kjvAnd Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. (Genesis 9:20-25)

Prophet Lot commits incest from wine (God forbid)

Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, [and] lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. (Genesis 19:33-26)

Although these stories are false because they teaches blasphemy against the holy Prophets Noah and Lot, they still convey a moral lesson for mankind that alcohol (wine) is the most dangerous substance that should be rejected by the true followers of Jesus.

 

[TG123]

How is alcohol a medication? unless it is used as a solvent which it is rarely!

Where did I write it is a medication?

HIndeed obesity is frowned upon in Islam:
The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) warned us about the dangers and health hazards of overeating.
He advised us to fill our stomach with 1/3 food, 1/3 for drink, and 1/3 for air.
On the authority of Al-Miqdaam ibn Maadiy-Karib who said: I heard the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saying: “No human ever filled a vessel worse than the stomach. Sufficient for any son of Adam are some morsels to keep his back straight. But if it must be, then one third for his food, one third for his drink and one third for his breath.” [Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasaa'I, Ibn Majah – Hadith sahih]
He also warned us about the perils of overeating.
On seeing a fat man, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said: “If you did not have a paunch (belly fat), it would be better for you. He also said: Overeating does not go with good health.” [Al-Haythami]
Try to remember this general rule: Eat to satisfy your hunger but not till you feel full.“Do not cast yourselves into destruction by your own hands.” (2:195)

___________________________

we have the holy month of Ramadan to teach us how to be patient, how to empathize with those who are hungry all year round and to detox..
so your point being?

That wasn't my question. I asked if the Quran bans eating of sweets or fast food.

 

[جوري]

Where did I write it is a medication?

Originally Posted by TG123 It seems you believe that alcohol and drugs can be taken only in dire circumstances.

What circumstance would make drinking alcohol dire in your opinion?

That wasn't my question. I asked if the Quran bans eating of sweets or fast food.

The Quran gives the fundamentals and I have summed those up for you briefly under Islamic medical ethics on the previous page.

best,

 

[TG123]

What circumstance would make drinking alcohol dire in your opinion?

None. You are right here. Comparing it to medical drugs which are necessary was not a good analogy on my part.

The Quran gives the fundamentals and I have summed those up for you briefly under Islamic medical ethics on the previous page.

best,

OK, but does the Quran ban sweets or fast food? Yes or no? It's a simple question.

 

[TG123]

The Bible prohibits the consumption of wine (Leviticus 10:9, Proverbs 4:17, 20:1).

Do not drink wine nor strong drink (Leviticus 10:9)

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)

For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. (Proverbs 4:17)

But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink;they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment. (Isaiah 28:7)

Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth. (Joel 1:5)

*****dom and wine and new wine take away the heart. (Hosea 4:11)

According to the Bible, the Prophet Noah got drunk! (God forbid)

And Noah began [to be] an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father,and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid [it] upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces [were] backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. (Genesis 9:20-25)

Prophet Lot commits incest from wine (God forbid)

Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, [and] lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. (Genesis 19:33-26)

Although these stories are false because they teaches blasphemy against the holy Prophets Noah and Lot, they still convey a moral lesson for mankind that alcohol (wine) is the most dangerous substance that should be rejected by the true followers of Jesus.

Thanks for the post. Will respond to your points later.