Prophet's marriage with Hazrat Ayesha. Need help

[aamirsaab]

So on this basis then, is any muslim on this forum willing to see a young girl in their family married to a 50 year old man?

Well not in the UK since that marriage would be illegal by the laws of this country. However, I believe the age of consent is 13 or something in China, so it is a possibility in today's world. Not that I wish to practice it.

Is there any adult muslim man say 18 years or older who wants to be allowed to marry a young girl?

Not me. I'm far too young (and skint) for marriage right now

 

[Rasema]

We are speaking about a Prophet of Allah and not any man, so your argument in asking us, at this period of time, if we would marry a young 6 old girl is not valid. Thus He,saws, had an exception in certain areas.Besides, who would marry a six year old? Was it for His,saws, benefit. Have you no sence?

I would give all my daughters to the Pophet of Allah. In an instant.

 

[amalteser]

We are speaking about a Prophet of Allah and not any man, so your argument in asking us, at this period of time, if we would marry a young 6 old girl is not valid. Thus He,saws, had an exception in certain areas.Besides, who would marry a six year old? Was it for His,saws, benefit. Have you no sence?

I would give all my daughters to the Pophet of Allah. In an instant.

Quote:Karl
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
If by child marriage you are refering to Aisha R.a. marrying Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) then yes this is sanctioned by Allah. But as far as Muslims marrying women at young age. Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki says this ruling is only for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) not the other men.


You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

It is utterly preposterous to suggest that a prophet should lead by double standards and hypocrisy. This is because these are amongst the greatest sins against Allah. A prophet is meant to LEAD BY EXAMPLE, NOT by hypocrisy, double standards and special privileges! It is only patently logical that if child marriage WAS hypothetically considered "haram" for the "common man", then Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) simply would NOT have married Aisha. Why? Well because he would have been well aware that the common man would have been closely observing his paragon and trying to emulate it. He would not have wanted to risk giving the "wrong" message to his followers, particularly simple followers who could easily have misconceived his "privileged haram" to be halal instead. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was egalitarian and he didn't consider himself to be more deserving of privileges than anyone else. He was constantly stating that he was no more than the messenger of Allah, he did NOT consider himself to be privileged like some self deifying Pharaoh or group of self privileged hypocrites such as the Pharisees.

You attack my sense, yet muslims have different opinions???

And Mohammad had 11 wives, NOT the 4 wives of the koran???

 

[Rasema]

You attack my sense, yet muslims have different opinions???

And Mohammad had 11 wives, NOT the 4 wives of the koran???

You attack my sense, yet muslims have different opinions???

About what exacly? Muslims do not have opinions, but evidence. When there is no explicit evidence then you obviously have different views among the scholars. The science does the same thing.Which psychologist, was it Frojd? who said that children at the age of six or so are the most aggressive in having sexual desires, or something like that. I'll try to research it.

And Mohammad had 11 wives, NOT the 4 wives of the koran???

The Qur’an, in Surah Nisa, chapter 4 verse 3, states that a Muslim is allowed to marry a maximum of only four wives. Another verse in the Qur’an makes Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) an exception to this rule.

In Surah Ahzab chapter 33 verse 52:

“It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things “. [Al-Qur’an 33:52

This verse clearly gives Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the permission to keep all his previous wives but prohibits him to marry any more women except those which his right hand possessed i.e. slave girls.

The Prophet (pbuh) was allowed to keep all his previous wives because no one was allowed to marry the Prophet’s wives (ra) after they were divorced or widowed as they were ummul-momineen (mother of the believers).

People falsely accuse the Prophet (pbuh) of being hypersexual (Maaz-Allah), because he had eleven wives. If you read the life history of the Prophet (pbuh), only two of his marriages one with Khadija (ra), and the other, with Ayesha (ra) were marriages in the normal course. All his other marriages were contracted as a necessity and were based on various considerations.

The first marriage of the Prophet (pbuh) took place when he was 25 years of age and he married Khadija (ra) who was twice widowed, and was 40 years old. If the Prophet (pbuh) was hypersexual, why would he marry a woman who was 15 years older than him and already twice widowed?

Until his first wife, Khadija (ra) was alive, he never took a second wife. Khadija (ra) expired when the Prophet (pbuh) was 50 years age and only after this, did he marry the others. If he married eleven wives for sexual reasons, he should have had multiple wives during his youth. Contrary to this, history tells us that all his marriages with his remaining ten wives took place when he was between the age of 53 and 59 years.

All his wives (ra) were between the age of 36 to 50 years, except for two wives (ra). His reputation had spread far and wide, not only in Arabia, but also in the neighboring countries. Could he not have easily got younger and lovelier girls to marry? Most of his marriages were for political gain and for the spread of Islaam.

In Arabia, no one could carry on the work of reform and upliftment unless he belonged to, or was related to some specific and respectable tribe. Thus, in the interest of his mission, the Prophet (pbuh) needed inter-tribal relationships. He wanted to weld the quarreling tribal and clannish factions into one Muslim ummah, as brethren in faith (Ikhwan fi’d-din).

For instance, his wife Juwayreeyah (ra) belonged to the Banu Mustaliq clan, which was very powerful. The entire clan was a bitter enemy of Islam from the start, and they were finally suppressed by military action. When the Prophet (pbuh) married Juwayreeyah (ra), the Muslims released all their prisoners, saying that they could not keep the prophet’s relatives in bondage. It was due to this marriage that the whole clan of Banu Mustaliq accepted Islam and became peaceful and obedient to the laws of the new Islaamic state.

Maymunah (ra) also came from a very powerful and recalcitrant clan from Najd and was the sister of the wife of the chief of the clan in those days. It was this clan which had brutally murdered seventy members of an Islaamic missionary deputation. The Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage with Maymunah (ra) changed the whole atmosphere and Najd accepted Madinah’s authority under the leadership of the Prophet (pbuh).

Umm Habibah (ra) was the daughter of the Quraysh chief, Abu Sufyan. It was after the Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage to Umm Habibah, that Abu Sufyan never fought against the Prophet (pbuh). This marriage was largely responsible for the conquest of Makkah. Furthermore, Umm Habibah was first married to a certain Ubaydullah and emigrated with him to Abyssinia, where Ubaydullah became a Christian and a drunkard. Excessive consumption of wine killed him since it was a double shock to her that her husband had become a Christian and later died, she was badly in need of solace.

Safiyyah (ra) was the daughter of a very prominent Jewish chief, Huyyah ibn Aktab. In consideration of her family status, she could not be merged into an ordinary household. So the Prophet (pbuh) himself married her. After this marriage, the Jews did not dare to revive their opposition to the Prophet (pbuh) and his mission.

In the case of Hafsah (ra), it was the Prophet’s (pbuh) desire to bind in relationship with those of his great companions (sahabah) who were his advisers and who were trained for future leadership. He had married Abu Bakr’s (ra) daughter, married two of his own daughters to Uthman (ra) and one to ‘Ali (ra). ‘Umar (ra) could not be kept outside this wide circle of relationship. By marrying Umar’s daughter Hafsah (ra), the Prophet (pbuh) forged a strong bond of relationship within the Islamic movement thus strengthening the pillars of the ummah.

The Prophet (pbuh) had married his first cousin, Zaynab (ra), to his freed slave, Zayd ibn Haritha (ra), whom he had adopted as his son. This marriage of Zaynab (ra) with Zayd (ra) was intended to break the family and social barriers, but the marriage did not prove to be successful and ended in divorce. When the Prophet (pbuh) saw that Zaynab (ra) was left alone, he felt his responsibility in the matter. He also had to break another convention, according to which an adopted son became a real son. This difficult problem was solved by the Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage to Zaynab (ra) (as mentioned in the Qur’an, in Surah Ahzab, chapter no 33 verse 37) to annul that pre-Islamic conception and promulgate an Islamic law instead.

Another lady Zaynab (ra), Umm al Masakin (mother of the poor and helpless), daughter of Khuzayma ibn Al-Haith, belonged to the Hawazin clan. Her husband was killed in the battle of Uhud. To rescue her from widowhood, the Prophet (pbuh) took her as his wife.

After the revelation of the verse in Surah Ahzab, chapter 33 verse 52, the Prophet (pbuh) only married Mary the Copt who was a slave girl sent as a present by the Christian Muqauqas of Egypt. Since the Christian Chieftain of Egypt sent Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) a slave girl as a present, he could not refuse this gift as a refusal would have disturbed the political alliance. He could not keep her as a slave girl, since Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) preached that slaves should be freed. The only option left with him was to marry her, since the Qur’an gave him the permission to do so. Later on she became the mother of Ibrahim (ra) who died in his infancy.





http://lastisland.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/why-did-prophet-muhammad-pbuh-have-eleven-wives/

 

[Masuma]

Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim!(In the name of Allah, the most Gracious and the most Merciful)

Wow, you are right we really do have different morals.

I don't know about you, but some of the non-Muslims don't consider homosexuality and extra-marital relations as wrong. Well, we Muslims do! Business men take interest whereas in Islam, it is a war you do with Allah if you take interest!
Bribing and other such crimes are forbidden in Islam. So you can say that here we have differences in our morals!

Please note that I don't say ALL non-Muslims are like this! What I have said is clear; some non-Muslims don't consider these evils as crimes. Now you may say that Muslims too practice these evils. But let me tell you that such people are only NAME-SAKE Muslims! They pay less attention to Islamic teachings. A true Muslim will never consider these crimes as something allowed in Islam. Muslim is one who submits his will to Allah (SWT). So these true Muslims and non-Muslims obviously seem to have differences in their morals! (Some non-Muslims don't even consider these immoralities as wrong!)

Came onto this forum to learn more and have tried to remain open minded but i am finding this very difficult to get my head round.

So which questions regarding Islam are bothering you dear sis? Would you like to share? Maybe I can explain them to you. InshAllah (if God wills)! We can discuss them if you want! If you didn't understand anything in this thread, we can discuss that too.:statisfie

FYI we non-muslims are not all immoral, drunken *****s with no values out to denigrate and disrespect your religion. imsad

And I know that!:statisfie Not all non-Muslims are immoral.

 

[Masuma]

No one is actually sure how old Ayesha was (May Allah be pleased with her).

?

"Not sure?" What do you mean?

But I AM SURE. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim says that she was engaged at the age of 6 and when she was handed over to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), she was 9!

I have edited my OP and have added this hadith there. http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...iage-hazrat-ayesha-need-help.html#post1231867

 

[Masuma]

Brother Karl wrote:You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

We are not scholars but Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki is and he has never seemed to try to please the west. He always spoke his mind. Also, don't forget Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was allowed to marry more then 4 women. There were exceptions for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

@ Brother Karl:
Brother, there were some exceptions which the Prophet of Allah was granted like marrying more than 4 wives but ordinary Muslims can't marry more than 4. So one can also argue on this too that why he was granted exceptions. But please note that I don't say like brother AbdullahSyed that marrying 9 year old girls is allowed or disallowed! Fact is, I don't know. You should too not argue on such things without 100% proof.
Many governments today don't allow marriages below the age of 18!

So if you say that marrying a 9 year old is allowed, then you should have some authentic verses or ahadith supporting it or directing at it. If there are such verses, then believe me, I don't have any problem with that.

So let this issue rest aside till we have some authentic rulings.

@ Brother AbdullahSyed:
Brother, it seems that you believe Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki to be a very reliable authority. He might be, but what I think is this that don't take rulings of only one Shaykh to be 100% authentic! Because it is too normal that he might be wrong. So you should too have some real authentic proofs backing up your beliefs and till you don't have any, it is nice to not support it yet.

Wasalam!:statisfie

 

[Masuma]

... The science does the same thing.Which psychologist, was it Frojd? who said that children at the age of six or so are the most aggressive in having sexual desires, or something like that. I'll try to research it.

Ummmm..., there is one psychologist called Freud S. year (1990) who was an asset of psychological study. He made psychology reach new heights, was very famous actually.

So maybe you were referring to him.

I have read one case study of Freud "Little Hans" in which he tries to prove that even some children near to puberty have sexual desires too. This is what he says. I myself don't know whether he is right in this or not.

Allah knows best!

 

[Raphael]

If there is anything that can put me to sleep faster than hearing someone talk about their latest adventures on Twitter, its this question!

There were many things the prophet was attacked on during his lifetime; His beliefs were ridiculed, he was treated with contempt, and some people were spiteful just for the sake of it!

One thing he was never questioned or confronted about however, was his marriage to Aisha! Not by the pagans, the Jews, or even the Christians at that time!

The question is a trap, and one that Muslims fall into by the masses.

People are a product of their environments, and the cultural norms have moved, such that marriage to children is frowned severely upon, with good cause too! Part of the reason for this, is of course most stories you hear about adult-child relationships are that of an abusive nature. One where an adult, whose sexual deviance, and predatory nature has moved them into forcing a child to do things they do not understand. The relationship is a sexual one, a deviant one, a damaging one.

There are two types of people who ask this question. Those that use it as an insult, whose question should not be dignified with an answer. Then there are those that find genuine suprise that Muslims revere a man who married a child. The Muslims who find this topic a fitna may also fit into this category.

The truth is usually so simple, its right under your nose.

Instead of debating how old Aisha really was, or making attacking videos of child marriages in other scriptures, or just recoiling abusively, the simple answer is to accept the hadith, and respond that cultures were different then.

The prophet married many other women, and none other as young as Aisha. For a man that gained the power he did before his death, he could have had any woman - or girl. The question for those that are truly concerned, is why not?

We have a compendium of sayings from Aisha, and we know her feelings, and thoughts about the Prophet. This was a woman who became a great scholar of Islam because of this relationship, and her affection, and protectiveness for the prophet are clear in her sayings. A far cry from the standard model of child abusers whose only interests are satisfying their sexual desires, or the permanent mental scars of the victims.

To understand something as simple as another culture, requires only sincerity. Nothing more. You could quote various statistics, such as the age of consent in the European countries just a hundred or so years ago, but you would be missing the point completely!

The answer of this querulous question does not come down to the actions of a man that lived a millenia and a half ago, but in the heart of the person asking.


Good Day!

 

[Uthman]

Raphael, your post is the most sensible thing I have read all day.

 

[Raphael]

Raphael, your post is the most sensible thing I have read all day.

JazakAllah brother.

 

[Karl]

"People are a product of their environments, and the cultural norms have moved, such that marriage to children is frowned severely upon, with good cause too!"

There's no 'good' cause to it at all. All it really is is a newly founded morality treacherously instigated and promulgated by misandronistic feminists, homosexuals and Zionists, based on nothing but subjective arguments, preconceptions and out and out bigotry.The "good cause" you are talking about is really just a subterfuge. Ulterior motives are what primarily drive this newly founded secular morality.

Part of the reason for this, is of course most stories you hear about adult-child relationships are that of an abusive nature. One where an adult, whose sexual deviance, and predatory nature has moved them into forcing a child to do things they do not understand.

"Predator", "deviant". You have learned the fine art of the American psycho babbling parlance as empoyed by the "sex abuse industry", lol. It's kind of odd how you first say "forcing a child to do things" followed by "they do not understand". Surely if someone is being"forced" into something, why then does it matter wether or not they "understand" the thing they are being forced into?? If a thief stabs me in the back with a knife and steals my money, do you think it would really make any difference to me whether or not I understood why he did it?

The relationship is a sexual one, a deviant one, a damaging one.

Let's pull that apart then. "A Sexual one": There is no inherent problem in sex per se. "A deviant one": depends what you mean by "deviant". I regard old men who go to bed with each other as deviant. I regard lesbians as deviant. I regard feminazis as deviant, I regard infidelity as deviant. They are all deviant from the path of Islam. If a male and female are not wedded then yes that is deviant because it is zina, but if a man is married to a young girl, then this is blessed by Allah, it is not deviant. "A damaging one": If you mean "traumatic", then that can only really happen if one party is being literally raped.

There are two types of people who ask this question. Those that use it as an insult, whose question should not be dignified with an answer. Then there are those that find genuine suprise that Muslims revere a man who married a child

The two are essentially the same. The former are wolves, the latter are wolves in sheeps clothing.

The truth is usually so simple, its right under your nose.

Clearly then the "truth" that lies under your nose is very different to the one that lies under my nose. When I am confronted with posts like this, I smell nothing but BS.

A far cry from the standard model of child abusers whose only interests are satisfying their sexual desires, or the permanent mental scars of the victims.

There is nothing wrong with satisfying one's sexual desire as long as the two are married first. I don't know why you employ politically correct psycho babble cliches like "child abusers", you'd be better to cut the crap and just use "rapist" instead, that's the traditional word and it makes far more sense. Don't get the idea that only children can fall victim to rapists. Rapists have all kinds of sexual preferences. Some rape females, some rape males, some rape young, some rape the elderly, some rape animals. It would sound silly referring to someone who rapes elderly men as a "elderly man abuser", wouldn't it?

To understand something as simple as another culture, requires only sincerity. Nothing more.

Well I've already mentioned wolves in sheeps clothing, and I am quite aware what a troll is as well;D

 

[Karl]

We are not scholars but Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki is and he has never seemed to try to please the west. He always spoke his mind. Also, don't forget Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was allowed to marry more then 4 women. There were exceptions for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Ahh, but this thing about not to marry more than 4 wives was only a LATER revelation to Muhammed (PBUH). He (PBUH) would not have married more than 4 wives if he was given that revelation beforehand. And since it was only a later revelation suggests that this matter was not of particular importance anyway.

 

[Karl]

Does the religion condone sex (whether ''actual coitus'' or not) with children?

The Quran does not condemn it so therefore it is permissible under Islam. The burden of proof is on the backs of those who wish to try and claim otherwise. I can tell you that many great scholars and leaders of Islam have actually promoted it rather than discouraged it. Ayatollah Khomeini once declared to all Muslims "Do your very best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house, for it is a divine blessing".

Do you think a little girl can ''enjoy exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual love making''?

There are swathes of scientific data to proove that children are highly sexual beings with erotic desires. I can remember so from my own childhood, and those who are honest with themselves will know what I'm talking about. Fact is that many prepubescent girls have extraoardinary sexual drive. I've even received sexual advances in the past from them, but fended them off because I did not want to commit the zina of pre-marital sex.

There are men in all cultures who have convinced themselves this is the case and we have our own names for them.

The kafir have made up endless slanderous labels and name tags for anything they dislike. They have invented slanderous name tags for men who possess the perfectly normal attraction to the natural beauty of young maidens, and they have a whole arsenal of slanderous names for Muslims in general...so do you think I'm going to give rat's arse what the infidels call us or think of us?? Naturally if I don't respect them in the first place, how am I going to be bothered by what they say or think?

All over the forum people state that a woman has a choice whether or not to marry. Do you really believe a girl with a meagre 9 years of life experience has the ability to make her own informed choices on these types of matters.

One's numerical AGE per se does NOT define whether or not they are capable or incapable of something. It is just as subjective and prejudice to claim that a person merely because of their youth is "incapable" of a certain undertaking, than to direct the same kind of prejudice towards someone because of their race. Making a prejudgment against someone just because of their AGE alone is outright AGEISM which is just as bad as racism. There are many other much more relevant criteria to take into consideration in regards to whether someone is deemed "capable" of something than judging them simply by their AGE.

I think it's also important to add too that marriage is first and foremost a contract between husband and wife. It can only be reasonably expected in the case of a very inexperienced young girl that her duties and responsibilities will be something that she would learn at her own rate. It would be ridiculous to drop her right into the deep end of things without teaching her first. There would be house duties that she would need to learn over time either through the guidance of her husband or another one of his wives (if he has more than one) or perhaps some other member of the family such as mothers, aunts or friends. It's all something she can learn at her own pace, so it's really no big deal.

Are they capable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues.

Well I consider such things to be hardly rocket science. Again, your argument is based purely on preconceptions and subjectivity, and you are arguing all this merely on the basis of someone's age itself, that's a pretty vacuous argument. There are other much more important factors that will render the degree of a person's "capability" for something. This is to do with how informed they are on things and their intrinsic degree of intelligence. I have seen enough 7 year olds in my time to put the intelligence of many 45 year olds to shame! Plain fact is that peoples' intelligence levels will vary across the board and is not determinable by age itself. There are many bright spark children and many DUMB adults too. "Worldliness" is not dependant on age per se, but what someone has been exposed to in their life. An 8 year old experiencing the fast life of a big city and with the world at their fingertips (i.e. internet, educational tv programmes etc) is going to be FAR more worldly than an isolated 50 year old farmer who has done nothing in his life other than the same old day to day routines, year in, and year out. You really need to be much more open minded and further sighted than you are being.

Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which a child is incapable of taking.

There you go again with yet more ageist bigotry. I have taken notice of how you have prefixed the word "child" with "a". This implies that you are referring systematically to every living child on the planet, the vast majority of whom you have never even SEEN in your life. So get off your high horse and stop trying to play God!

For your further information, my daughter who is 8 is married to a husband in his fifties. The marriage has worked FINE and they are both very happy, there are NO "complications" about anything, so don't you ever dare accuse my daughter of being an incapable dizzy idiot. As for the age difference, well I see no problem with that because I am not ageist. But for practical reasons I think it's also ok for there to be a wide age gap as long as the husband is not soooo decrepid as to being at death's door. Some men remain healthy and fit even into quite old age.

If you disagree with this then i think it is sooooo important that you openly condemn this.

Well I don't disagree, so you're completely out of luck! As I said, I have absolutely NO time for agesim and bigoted prejudice. And I can tell you that I know a billion times more about the individual nature of my own daughter and what's the best in her interests than you ever will.

 

[Karl]

You are shaped by your own society's definition of normal and abnormal, therefore in a society that considers this to be wrong, you are more likely to reciprocate the same sentiments....

If parents dont want to marry their younger girls, no one can force them to do so. But if they agree, no one is allowed to interfere into the marriage of a younger girl even with a aged man

Good points and well said sister Rasema.

And those Muslims who do not believe A'isha was young probably have the same upbringing. And when they learn about something they find hard to believe, they reject it outright.

And that's why the Quran explicitly states that Muslims should not live in kafir countries, so that their minds do not become corrupted with kafir attitudes.

 

[Karl]

So on this basis then, is any muslim on this forum willing to see a young girl in their family married to a 50 year old man?

Yes certainly! My 8 year old daughter is happily married to her husband who is in his 50's. To this day I have absolutely no regrets. I am a very proud father.

Is there any adult muslim man say 18 years or older who wants to be allowed to marry a young girl?

It's fascinating how you Americans always rely more on legal semantics than common sense to define the age of "adulthood". My race hit puberty at about 8-10 on average and we are fully fledged young adults by age 12, not the grand old age of 18 that you treat like some kind of "magic" number , so either you are relying on legal semantics or your race is WAY different to mine. Hmmm, also 666 is the number of Satan...interesting that 6 + 6 + 6 =18, need I say more? lol.

 

[Karl]

Which psychologist, was it Frojd? who said that children at the age of six or so are the most aggressive in having sexual desires, or something like that. I'll try to research it.

I think you might be talking about Freud. You are absolutely right that children are inherently sexual beings, and this is one reason why so many Muslim scholars and leaders throughout the ages have recommened early marriage as a measure against zina. The longer a girl is restrained from her romantic and sexual desires the more likely she is to commit zina. This is why Ayatollah Khomeini considered it to be so important for girls to marry as soon as they can. There have also been swathes of evidence from sexologists of contemporary times to prove it too, and you will be most surprised that this research has come from mavericks in West itself, (take for example the Rind study and those such as professor John Money at John Hopkins, and Kinsey etc). The reason why these peoples' voices are not heard in the West is because such truths are heavily censored and legally/politically suppressed by the infidels. So many people who voice such truths are often outcasted and lose their jobs etc.

 

[Karl]

@ Brother Karl: But please note that I don't say like brother AbdullahSyed that marrying 9 year old girls is allowed or disallowed! Fact is, I don't know. You should too not argue on such things without 100% proof.

Brother An33za, the onus of proof lies on anyone claiming something to be "disallowed", seeing they are the ones trying to make such a claim in the FIRST place. It is only logical that what is allowed under Islam would be anything the Holy Quran does not explicitly condemn. If the Holy Quran openly and explicitly condemns something, then naturally that is disallowed under Islam. However if the Quran does not make any condemnation of something, then it is only obvious as the day is long that it's permissible.This is just common sense. Therefore the marriage of young women or girls of ANY age is permissible under the laws of Islam, crystal clear, plain and simple.

Many governments today don't allow marriages below the age of 18!

That's because they are godless usurpers. I am aware that not only do "age of consent" laws exist in the West, I have heard that these tyranical laws have been enacted by corrupt sycophantic puppet governments of around 17 "Muslim" states (all as a result of pressure and bullying by western powers). This is an utter outrage because not only is the concept of "Age of Consent" in blatant violation to Sharia, it is also in violation against parents' God given right to raise their own offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. The very principle of AoC is in direct violation of the fundamental principle of parental rights and the age old maxim "a man's house is his castle". AoC laws represent an implied declaration by the state that parents' offspring are appropriated by the socialist state right from the time they are born. They are therefore born as "state property", the parent's sole rights are usurped by the totalitarian socialists and they are forcibly demoted to mere "foster parents". The selfrighteous arrogant secularists and busybody socialists are bonafide plundereres of private property and this is one good reason why the fight against them must never end.:raging:

So if you say that marrying a 9 year old is allowed, then you should have some authentic verses or ahadith supporting it or directing at it. If there are such verses, then believe me, I don't have any problem with that.

As I said before, the Holy Qur'an focuses only on what is forbidden, not what is allowed. It works on a similar basis as the 10 commandments of Moses. (example "thou shalt not steal" etc). It is only logical that the Qur'an was formatted in that manner as well, because if it listed every single aspect of life right down to the most smallest and trivial details of what was allowed, one would die of old age before they could finish reading the Qur'an! I also repeat again, the onus of proof remains on anyone attempting to declare something as "haram"!

 

[Raphael]

All it really is is a newly founded morality treacherously instigated and promulgated by misandronistic feminists, homosexuals and Zionists

Ah yes of course, anyone who finds the sexual abuse of children must be a feminist, homosexual, or a fanatic supporter of the Israeli state. You must be clearly fond of these groups considering they are the only ones with any sense of justice according to your skewed outlook?! :hmm:

It's kind of odd how you first say "forcing a child to do things" followed by "they do not understand". Surely if someone is being"forced" into something, why then does it matter wether or not they "understand" the thing they are being forced into??

It seems your impressive understanding of the human psyce is only second to your love of children. The action is loaded, because it involves the bleeding of a young mind. The coercion of a child towards a sexual action is morally bankrupt because of the exploitation of their naivety. I never thought I would have to explain something so basic to anyone over the age of 10.

Let's pull that apart then. "A Sexual one": There is no inherent problem in sex per se.

Perhaps you should read a statement in context. Any relationship that is purely sexual, is deviant, regardless of marital status. Any husband who views his wife as purely a relief for his desires, with no considerations for her feelings, is not a good husband in my opinion. But I do understand there are some backward Muslim tribes who hold this view. I'm just surprised their members have internet connection.

Clearly then the "truth" that lies under your nose is very different to the one that lies under my nose.

Well I am thankful to Allah for that!

There is nothing wrong with satisfying one's sexual desire as long as the two are married first. I don't know why you employ politically correct psycho babble cliches like "child abusers", you'd be better to cut the crap and just use "rapist" instead, that's the traditional word and it makes far more sense. Don't get the idea that only children can fall victim to rapists. Rapists have all kinds of sexual preferences. Some rape females, some rape males, some rape young, some rape the elderly, some rape animals. It would sound silly referring to someone who rapes elderly men as a "elderly man abuser", wouldn't it?

Righttt. :clever:

 

[muslimah_81]

I think anyone that has a problem with the marriage of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) should look into the relationsip they had.
I think they had a beautiful relationship and loved each other dearly.
Any non muslims that question Aisha's age probably need to address things a lot closer to home first.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/4764417.stm

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/wes...accused-of-raping-schoolgirl-116451-25043975/