Prove Allah exists

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What 'secular viewpoint'? The issue is an important general ethical one, with significant differences opinion between atheists/humanists as with as with theists.

Well - as far as I view it - secular people, aside from being hypocrite, cannot view people in a coma or with
different mental or physical states as on the same level of them. Even if they say so and morally debate about it for as long as possible.

This is for the simple reason that if you see life as a purely physical thing and do not acknowledge the fact that
you have a soul you would see these people as less fortunate than you and hence not equal. That is the simple
truth of it.
 
Of course, most things can be explained by alternatives to God, in many cases rather more convincingly [/I].

Funny. I do not think I follow. I have two magnets on my table and when I get them closer they get attracted
to each other - could you please explain me why it happens? I have not seen an answer yet...in spite of the
glorious pattern of evolution of "the supreme human knowledge of physics"...

Funny...people think they know everything but when you really ask for answers
(after you exhaust the popular science slogans) you always get the "I am not an expert in this field" answer..."I am more into multidimensional quantum chromatic string wave theory kinda reasearch - magnets is not my thing".

Or maybe why magnets get pulled together is not important or interesting enough - but yet again if this is the place where you can "squeeze in" questions - I would say that you have a rather wide space going on there.
 
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Well - as far as I view it - secular people, aside from being hypocrite, cannot view people in a coma or with
different mental or physical states as on the same level of them. Even if they say so and morally debate about it for as long as possible.

This is for the simple reason that if you see life as a purely physical thing and do not acknowledge the fact that
you have a soul you would see these people as less fortunate than you and hence not equal. That is the simple
truth of it.

Secular simply means 'apart from religion', or words to that effect. It has no commitment regarding acceptance of ontologies that exclude any sort of spiritual dimension, such as a 'soul'. It is quite possible to be 'secular' in regard to a great many moral decisions even if you are religious, in that you do not believe religious views should (necessarily) determine the results of any deliberations. Often, as religious views differ markedly, a 'secular' approach is the only way to settle a dispute between religious people.

Alas, I am no physicist either and you will need to seek your explanation of electromagnetism elsewhere. I was not aware, however, that the teaching of this phenomenon at schools and universities around the world usually invoked God to explain it?
 
Just get a translated Holy Quran in English and analyse it with these scientific believes you believe in and you will understand more clearly hopefully. Also think to yourself what is this life and where does you soul go to when you die does it just vanish in thin air? What gave a human body a life a soul?

But please don't ask this question for a different purpose to start a controversial debate that can affect people. If you are genuine and honest and really want to ask this question you wouldn't had come here for an answer but somewhere else outside of the internet. So if you have dodgy intention for asking this question then you have problems.

Anyways all the best.

P.E.A.CE
 
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Secular simply means 'apart from religion', or words to that effect. It has no commitment regarding acceptance of ontologies that exclude any sort of spiritual dimension, such as a 'soul'. It is quite possible to be 'secular' in regard to a great many moral decisions even if you are religious, in that you do not believe religious views should (necessarily) determine the results of any deliberations. Often, as religious views differ markedly, a 'secular' approach is the only way to settle a dispute between religious people.

Alas, I am no physicist either and you will need to seek your explanation of electromagnetism elsewhere. I was not aware, however, that the teaching of this phenomenon at schools and universities around the world usually invoked God to explain it?


1. For me secular means a person who does not believe in religion. My understanding in politics is very limited
and I simply do not understand it. I just said that non-religious people cannot treat people in a comma or in different
physical\mental states than them as equal - even if they really want to believe they do.

2. So, to the best of my understanding you are also not a theologist but you seem to have no problem to talk about that. Anyway - you have just proved my point and gave me the "I am not an expert answer" you would be surprised
to know that I have not yet found an "expert" maybe it means that they do not exist. I should open a post "prove that an expert in physics exists" - that would be fun :) and also much more straightforward....

3. I do not know what teaching you refer to in universities and schools because as far as I know all they teach
there is a few mathematical formulas which explain how magnets get attracted to each other - i.e a model of
the movement that they will make when one puts them close together (which I can see well enough with my eyes)
- However, you would be surprised to know that humanity, at least not in the circles of western academic science, has no explanation or a shade of a clue as to why two magnets attract each other.

In my eyes it is a very fundamental phenomena...do you not think?

4. But - there is a simple answer to why it is like that - something many people fail to notice. Science is absolutely not interested to give you answers for anything. Indeed physics is not here to explain anything and
that is what people do not understand. People naturally want to know the answers to "why" questions (like
why am I here, why does this make me sad, why does this makes me happy - this kind of stuff) - science
cannot care less about this - science is just about how how how. How does this work, how does your brain
work, how will you react if I pinch you, how will a stone fall from this and this height....in my eyes this is very
boring - because if a how question never in the end leads to an answer to a why question - then who needs it?

5. The problem is that we are brainwashed by all sort of "popular science shows and media" to think that science
can give us answers to why questions and in fact make it into our new godling - but actually science is just one big
waste of time. Personally, if I am not engaged in answering why questions and helping my fellow friends to have
a happy life - I would have preferred to die at the age of thirty or before that and not extend my life until I'm a thousand years old - simply because then life would have been a total waste of time.

6. However, do not get me wrong I absolutely do not think that anybody is "hiding" from us the answers to the "why" questions - far from it - everything is in plain sight. I think that the main reason is that people simply do not want to know and feel uncomfortable with these kind of things as answering a "why" question involves with being honest and this would require people to go through things they simply do not want to deal with. So they prefer to play all important and uninvolved with being "scientists" and waste their time and ours with analyzing how this and this would happen.
 
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Proof of Allah/God/Jesus/Buddha/insert diety here? Hmmm, well, I've always been interested in the First Casue argument as put forward by St Thomas Aquinas- everything in the Universe had a cause- even the Universe has a cause- so it would be rational to attribute such a cause to said deity. Does God have a cause? Of course not- He does not conform to the logic He created for the natural Universe to follow, and therefore, it can be said God has no cause.
 
Peace,
Pray sincerely to Allah to guide you to the straight path.
 
A meaningless request as, if God did exist, he could be be responsible for any possible directly observable phenomena. Everything can be explained by the God hypothesis, which is one reason many people find it so attractive, and it is of course impossible to disprove a thesis that, by definition, explains everything there is.

Of course, most things can be explained by alternatives to God, in many cases rather more convincingly IMHO, and there is good reason to suspect that many of those that currently can't will eventually follow the pattern of history and fall into place. 'Everything', though? I very much doubt it.. and in that space religion will always exist, theistic or otherwise. Hence attempting to prove or disprove the existence of God is a totally futile pursuit except as an exercise in argumentation, as surely has been proved by the total failure of far greater minds than ours to do so over the course of the last two millennia or so.

Put another way, this sort of argument between theists and atheists is ultimately futile as while, if being intellectually honest, they might have to accept each other's arguments, that is pretty much irrelevant as they can never accept each others starting assumptions.

true, although sometimes one has to look beyond a merely academic viewpoint and ponder the truth of a matter from ones personal way of thinking and own nature.

and although humans have explained many, if not most observable phenomenon, it does not in anyway provide an "alternate hypothesis". both explanations co exist without contradiction. At least in Islam anyway.
 
Simple question (or is it?)
Prove Allah exists.
No scripture, no theoretical nor pragmatic arguments. Show me some EMPIRICAL evidence!

how can one possibly prove that god exists whilst being regardless of any method that God Himself has described/informed us about Himself.
in other words, there is no possible way to prove that god exists except via the means in which he Has given us (eg holy scriptures, etc), wherein which He informed us of Himself.

an open heart and mind and a willingness to at least try to understand concepts of belief is a necessary component in believing in the existence of god. without it, any attempt of trying to understand will be rendered useless.

it is also necessary to accept and understand that the only proof to matters of the unseen/things that cant be proven scientifically (though science may at times conform to certain beliefs), is through the acceptance of the heart. that is all that is required to accept Belief, hence the term 'Faith.'
 
Let me get this straight ... you've come on a random message board, and asked a bunch of random Muslims to prove to you, some random person, that Allah exists?

I'd think that if anyone on here could do that, they would already be the most sought after man or woman in the world. Or they'd be in seclusion by the powers that would like to suppress said knowledge.

Take a look at the post i've quoted, by the mother of Sufyaan.

how can one possibly prove that god exists whilst being regardless of any method that God Himself has described/informed us about Himself.
in other words, there is no possible way to prove that god exists except via the means in which he Has given us (eg holy scriptures, etc), wherein which He informed us of Himself.

an open heart and mind and a willingness to at least try to understand concepts of belief is a necessary component in believing in the existence of god. without it, any attempt of trying to understand will be rendered useless.

it is also necessary to accept and understand that the only proof to matters of the unseen/things that cant be proven scientifically (though science may at times conform to certain beliefs), is through the acceptance of the heart. that is all that is required to accept Belief, hence the term 'Faith.'

This pretty much sums it up. I really think you fail in understanding the whole issue of faith and belief. And i don't really feel like explaining it to you.

Let's look at it this way. What happens if you are right? Well the muslims wasted their lives praying, fasting, reading an amazing book and living by a code of conduct that says to treat parents well, feed the poor, fight oppression, protect yourself from sexual misconduct and live simply. Oh well, most i'd say would be pretty content to say they hadn't wasted their lives. Maybe they missed out on some clubbing and pork (or whatever). Fine you win.

But what happens if we are right? You are playing with fire ...

Either way, whether you intended to or not with this thread, you just prove Islam even more. With this debate/thread you increased the belief of the believers even though you may detest that.

Mission accomplished?!?! George Bush would be proud?!?!

Oh and in regards to the mentally ill and their sins? Islam has you covered:

Hadrat Ali ibn Abi Talib (r.a.) reported that the Prophet (saws) said: "The pen is raised for three groups [of people]—(that is, they will not be responsible for their actions): the insane until they become sane, those who are sleeping until they awaken, and the young until they reach the age of puberty."

Related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and at-Tirmidhi.

Paz, amigo.
 
I dont believe intelligent life exists elsewhere till I find the evidence and I believe we will never find the evidence. Hence I believe Prophet Muhammad pbuh is the last messenger in this universe. I have that faith. You have your faith that intelligent life exists elsewhere. But your position is a weak one compared to mine as you are taking a positive position with no concrete evidence.

I never said there was intelligent life on other planets. I just said I BELIEVE there are. I never said I KNOW there are.

I have 3 reasons to believe there is intelligent life on other planets:

1. The size of the universe. There are 100 thousand million stars in our galaxy alone. Beyond our galaxy there are many many many more.
The hubble deep field image was a tiny portion of the sky, yet the tiny image it took had over 10,000 galaxies in it.

If Allah created the entire universe, all the planets, stars, and other celestial objects in it and only put life on this one planet ... then I think Allah is not the most intelligent creator.
What a waste of space. Believing that the universe was created for us is a very self-centered belief. Humans have always been anthropocentric creatures!

Watch this video. It was made by a Muslim.
Type the following into google and hit "I'm feeling lucky":
watch?v=LeBuXnCe2Mg

2. There is a theory that life came from Mars.

www . newscientist . com/article/mg19325885.200
If it were true (which it very well may be) then it would mean that there are planets other than Earth that are capable of harboring life.

3. Hominids. The hominids were sentient beings, but they weren't human. That proves that intelligent and sentient life has existed besides humans. The Neanderthals for example, they had art, music, buried their dead, etc. They did a lot of things that humans do. But they weren't human. The Neanderthal genome was recently mapped and it proved that there were not humans. That is 100% proof that humans are not the only intelligent/sentient life that has existed or exists in this universe.
 
Let's look at it this way. What happens if you are right? Well the muslims wasted their lives praying, fasting, reading an amazing book and living by a code of conduct that says to treat parents well, feed the poor, fight oppression, protect yourself from sexual misconduct and live simply. Oh well, most i'd say would be pretty content to say they hadn't wasted their lives. Maybe they missed out on some clubbing and pork (or whatever). Fine you win.

But what happens if we are right? You are playing with fire ...

Either way, whether you intended to or not with this thread, you just prove Islam even more. With this debate/thread you increased the belief of the believers even though you may detest that.

lol

Pascal's wager is such a fail.
Just because you believe in god, does not mean you believe in the right god (or gods.)
How many religions, gods, and goddesses have the human species invented in the thousands of years of our existence? An innumerable amount.
They can't all be right, can they? Many of them certainly contradict each other.

So, statistically, what are the chances that you are following the right religion? The right sect of a religion?

"treat parents well, feed the poor, fight oppression, protect yourself from sexual misconduct and live simply"

If you think only Muslims do that, than you are completely deluded.
If you NEED Islam to do those things, then I REALLY feel bad for you.
If you are only doing those things to fulfill your faith in hopes of getting into heaven, then you are a very sanctimonious and insidious person.
 
well if you want evidence just look at those that use this world as proof,

physics
math
chemistry
biology
phylosophy

for every theory proved there is understanding of universal laws that govern the entire universe, except for the things which cant be explained or the theories with holes in them. i guess gods a better mathamatician, chemist, biologist, physicist and phylosopher than anyone thats existed.... or been created whatever.
 
@ Free thinking:
First of all as pointed out, you are here just for an argument, (and please don’t try to say no as everyone can easily see it here.) If you really wanted guidance or help, then you would have been trying more to understand people’s points!

You want us to make a “disbeliever” BELIEVE in the existence of God??? That doesn’t even make sense! No matter how many arguments we give you, you’ll still stuck to your point as some people’s hearts are sealed and they would never receive guidance. But still I pray to Allah to guide you to truth!

Now you say that God doesn’t exist, then how do you explain the existence of this universe and everything in between? Who then created all of this? You are not a child and so must have at least some of your theories explaining the origin of the universe and all of us, right? Or did you remain so ignorant and never even bothered as to how everything came into existence?

I think you must have at least some of your beliefs explaining these big questions. So would you mind them sharing?



May Allah give you guidance!
 
@ Free thinking:

May be this might not work as you seem less keen to UNDERSTAND things but still lets give it a try.

PROVING THE EXISTENCE OF ALLAH (SWT) TO AN ATHEIST

by Dr. Zakir Naik


CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’.

So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.
LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.

Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.

(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)


QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE

The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.

Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.

If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.

SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?


THEORY OF PROBABILITY


In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.

A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.


CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN

The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.

QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE

Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.

But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.


SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD

Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).

Surah Fussilat:

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

[Al-Quran 41:53]


Now this time try to UNDERSTAND if you are really here for it! :hmm:
 
ooopsi one more thing! You mentioned in the OP that you don't want proofs from religious books etc. So that means you want us to prove God's existence to you by your CRITERION to judge things! If your criterion to judge things is science, then okay we'll inshAllah prove God's existence to you through it.
So what is your criterion to judge things with? Science?

You should understand that different people have different ways of arriving at truth. Some would accept historical records to be sufficient evidence for God's existence, some would go for science etc. Every person has his/her own criterion to judge about things. So what is your through which we can prove God's existence to you?

Let us all save our precious time here because we might be giving you proofs of science etc and you would simply say at end that my criterion was history or some other thing! So tell us what do you take as the ultimate authority, proving you the veracity of things?

And atheists are the most unjust because the beloved Allah out of His loving mercy still take care of them and they totally deny His existence!:cry: Oh Allah! We celebrate your praise and we would even die for You! :cry:
 
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Now you say that God doesn’t exist, then how do you explain the existence of this universe and everything in between? Who then created all of this? You are not a child and so must have at least some of your theories explaining the origin of the universe and all of us, right? Or did you remain so ignorant and never even bothered as to how everything came into existence?

Why do you assume it's a "who" ??

I think saying "We don't know how the universe was created / what created it, therefore, GOD DID IT!" is sheer intellectual laziness.
 
Simple question (or is it?)
Prove Allah exists.
No scripture, no theoretical nor pragmatic arguments. Show me some EMPIRICAL evidence!

Well I can't give you an answer to this simple question. So you win ! hahaha.

But why all of you atheists are thinking this way : you need concrete, logical, empirical, scientific evidence to admit something exists. This won't work with every thing.
Now let's forget Allah's existence. Can I ask you one more simple question :
Can you give me a clear proof (logical, or empirical) that you really exist ? well I see these posts that probably you wrote, so probably you exist, but I'm really confused and I don't "believe" you really exist. So can you give me a clear evidence that you exist ?

May be you'll die before answering this question. Or may be you'll change your way of proving the existence of things :-\
 
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