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Greetings Pygoscelis,
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...-philosophical-theological-response-evil.html
And if their evasion is difficult for you, then if you are able to seek a tunnel into the earth or a stairway into the sky to bring them a sign, [then do so]. But if Allah had willed, He would have united them upon guidance. So never be of the ignorant. [Qur'an 6:35]
There need not be any mystery or confusion. God directed us to believe in Him by means of the various signs around us and within us. He told us He has created the heavens and the earth, life and death, for the purpose of testing man. Whoever obeys Him, He will reward him, and whoever disobeys Him, He will punish him. The real mystery is what will people believe and follow if they reject what is clear and what resonates with the natural disposition and human intellect.
The fact that He sent Messengers and Scriptures for our guidance does not suggest a problem with power. For instance, how many times has the Prime Minister visited your house personally to tell you what is required of you? Yet I doubt you felt the need to criticise his power as a result of that.
I would have thought, if respect is holding you back, you wouldn't have made a statement about random mythical beings in the first place.I have been trying not to give reasons for my lack of belief, out of respect for the forum, but you are making points and accusations that deserve a response.
That's because this is a superficial way to look at it. Pain, suffering and trial are sometimes needed to bring about a greater good. Sometimes a diseased limb needs to be removed to save the whole body. A response to the atheistic claim of the problem of evil can be found here:So you say. Everything from earthquakes and tornadoes to young children dying from disease to 99% of the known universe being completely hostile to life make me think otherwise. If there is/are God(s), I can't bring myself to believe that he/she/it/they is/are all powerful, all just, or all benevolent to humans or life in general.
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...-philosophical-theological-response-evil.html
This is where it gets really interesting to me. If God had us all know that he exists, and had us all know everything else he wishes us to know, such as what he wants and expects from us, etc (and he wouldn't need prophets or books to do that if he is all powerful - he could just make it so), are you are saying that would eliminate the "test" (which I see no reason for, but that's another matter) and render our existence pointless? Are you saying that the test is to see if we can figure out the mystery about him and what he wants? Does he intend or allows all of the strife and confusion from competing and warring religions, so he can reward those who get the right answer? Is the test about solving the mystery and not about behaving well or obeying /rebelling once we do know what he wants of us?
And if their evasion is difficult for you, then if you are able to seek a tunnel into the earth or a stairway into the sky to bring them a sign, [then do so]. But if Allah had willed, He would have united them upon guidance. So never be of the ignorant. [Qur'an 6:35]
There need not be any mystery or confusion. God directed us to believe in Him by means of the various signs around us and within us. He told us He has created the heavens and the earth, life and death, for the purpose of testing man. Whoever obeys Him, He will reward him, and whoever disobeys Him, He will punish him. The real mystery is what will people believe and follow if they reject what is clear and what resonates with the natural disposition and human intellect.
The fact that He sent Messengers and Scriptures for our guidance does not suggest a problem with power. For instance, how many times has the Prime Minister visited your house personally to tell you what is required of you? Yet I doubt you felt the need to criticise his power as a result of that.
The judgement of dishonesty in an individual's heart is for God. Our task is simply to convey the message. And the truth is a Straight Path. In comparing religions, it is possible to discern truth from falsehood - the monotheism emphasised in Islam is a stark contrast to the Trinitarian concept of Christianity. You may have noticed the numerous converts from Christianity on this forum and the recurring theme of Christian creed not making any sense to them.Christians have been saying this to me most of my life. I accept that both you and they are genuine in your belief that those of us who seek shall be guided to the Truth, but you and they (and earnest people from other religions) have such very different answers and what that is, and that makes me take great pause. Are your answers right and theirs wrong, and if they would only honestly genuinely seek guidance, they would be Muslims like you? Do you insist on their dishonesty when they tell you that they have spent their lives genuinely seeking such guidance? Do you insist on my dishonestly when I tell you that I have genuinely sought such guidance and have come to the conclusion that there is very likely no such supernatural guide? It seems implied.
It is possible for a person's predisposition to become corrupted. The Prophet :saws: said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.”I have no such predisposition to believe in him and him alone.
Instead of making our own demands, is it not wise to at least examine the proof and message that He has sent? On the one hand you complain about confusion, yet on the other you make excuses for not even wanting to receive guidance. The Qur'an is the Words of Allaah, so I'm not sure why you say He 'can't speak for himself'.The fact that Gods have sent human messengers... or rather the fact that people have claimed to be human messengers for Gods... is a point of evidence that doesn't look the same to me as it does to you. I would presume that an all powerful God could certainly make me know whatever I was intended to know, and that an all powerful God would not be restricted to written word, human language, or human messengers, prone to all of the faults therein. When you show me text purporting to be from God or a person claiming to speak for God, my skeptical radar immediately goes off and I immediately have to wonder why this purported all powerful God can't speak for himself, or chooses not to; creating all of the confusion of competing religions.
The point is not whether you feel despair or arrogance. The point being made was that it is expected not everyone will believe in the Qur'an. It's rather strange you keep iterating what I 'need' to believe, yet become uptight any time someone says you 'refuse' or 'reject' the message of Islam.Reading holy texts I don't believe in neither causes me great despair nor increases my arrogance. That goes for the Quran as much as it does the Egyptian book of the Dead or the Tao Te Ching or the Book of Mormon. These books can be fascinating from a sociology and cultural standpoint, and I have collected many of them over the years, but they don't particularly alarm me in any way. Again, do you feel the need to find me dishonest in saying that? You may be reading despair and arrogance into my words right now. I submit that you are likely to do so no matter what I say or how I say it, and you would reach that same conclusion, because you go in needing to believe that. I have walked on eggshells in this forum and other religion based forums for years, carefully measuring my words so not to give offence, and invariably somebody will be offended.
The more this discussion is transpiring, the more difficult I find that to believe.I have.
If you had worded things in this way, perhaps I wouldn't have even replied. But there seemed to be an implication earlier that there are no reasons presented at all for belief.Again, you missed my point in quoting that. My point was that you can not make yourself believe something that you see no reason to believe. I know that you find your reasons for believing in your God to be convincing, and I can see that you are confused as to why I don't find them remotely convincing. That is fine. That means you have a strong faith. All I ask is that you recognize that I don't find them at all convincing, and that I am not dishonest in saying that.
The same could be said of yours to validate the lack thereof.I may be asking too much, as your posts above show that projecting particular beliefs, reactions, and traits on non-believers may be a basic requirement of your belief system.