question for a christian

[جوري]

And that is why the apostle Paul is frequently called the apostle to the Gentiles. In the Christian view, Jesus (PBUH) was sent to the lost sheep of Israel and Paul was sent to the Gentiles.




If you don't believe that Christianity was meant for the Gentiles, I assume, then, that you are saying that Muhammad's (PBUH) message was the one for the Gentiles? (Since it was addressed to all mankind.) I'm just trying to understand your point...



:wa:

yes, That is the universal message for all man-kind and the only one that Allah swt promised to safeguard its scriptures from corruption-- you need to know that I believe that most people received a messenger (otherwise their trials would be on the day of judgment)

:wa:

 

[bibleblevr]

hello all. am not here to turn this thread into a debate just want to ask 2 questions which i need some answers for and then the thread can simply be closed.

• i would like to know if interest (usary) is forbiden in christianity
• and if eating pig is forbidden

if they are forbiden can u tell where it says so from the king james version of the bible. if its not forbiden then no problem we just leave it there.

thank you all

No these things are not forbidden. They were forbidden in the Jewish law, But Christians are not under the Mosaic law anymore:
Galatians 3:24:
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Jesus fulfilled the law and we are in a sense out of school. We do however need to examine what each law was trying to teach us. Laws about usury were to prevent people taking advantage of each other. laws on pork were to keep us health, because pigs at that time where dangerous to eat. This teaches us to respect our bodies and care for them.

Here it is in the jewish law:

Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.
Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
Isaiah 65:3-4
A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable [things is in] their vessels;
Isaiah 66:16-17
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

laws on usury can be found here: Exodus 22:25-27, Leviticus 25:36-37 and Deuteronomy 23:20-21.

God bless

 

[Italianguy]

No these things are not forbidden. They were forbidden in the Jewish law, But Christians are not under the Mosaic law anymore:
Galatians 3:24:
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Jesus fulfilled the law and we are in a sense out of school. We do however need to examine what each law was trying to teach us. Laws about usury were to prevent people taking advantage of each other. laws on pork were to keep us health, because pigs at that time where dangerous to eat. This teaches us to respect our bodies and care for them.

Here it is in the jewish law:

Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.
Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
Isaiah 65:3-4
A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable [things is in] their vessels;
Isaiah 66:16-17
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

laws on usury can be found here: Exodus 22:25-27, Leviticus 25:36-37 and Deuteronomy 23:20-21.

God bless

hmmmmmmmm:hmm:

 

[Ramadhan]

In summary, there are two possibilities:

1. God in the bible has severe split/multiple personalities

OR

2. The bible has been changed/corrupted/added/removed by unknown authors/parishees/priests etc.

take your pick.

 

[Italianguy]

In summary, there are two possibilities:

1. God in the bible has severe split/multiple personalities

OR

2. The bible has been changed/corrupted/added/removed by unknown authors/parishees/priests etc.

take your pick.

Those aren't the only 2 options. Why would you say that? They have televised the same thing about Islam and the Qur'an. Watch "inside the Qur'an" It is scholary Muslims who say the Qur'an has been changed, and Muslims have confirmed this, as well as liquidity in the Hadiths. (not my words bro).

There are plenty of reasons

Catholics have most of it right, until....they think a man, priest can forgive your sins(well if thats true, Then Jesus crucifixtion was for nothing) so i can't follow Catholicism anymore.

Eastern Orthodox ^ditto. with some extras.

And then protestants, (which I am.....that may change) We seem to have changed and or interpreted what the Bible says in order to make it easier to follow Christ....because truthfully, we could never do it, not excluding myself! Protestants also seem to think they can do anything they want, then just pray for forgiveness as well they speak all the time of hell, but all think they are going to heaven no matter what....so why even care if there is a hell, not like their going anyway??

Just my oppinion anyway. God bless all. And thank you for all of my Christian friends here replying as well, my reponses shouldn't be the only ones veiwed.

So i don't believe the Bible is corrrupt at all....the people who read it and preach wrong are! Same goes for your Qur'an. Not everyone in high status among our faiths are right, we just believe them instead of finding out for our selves.

Christians....What do you think about what Pat robertson said about the Haitians???? People like him are making us look really badddddddd:heated:

 

[جوري]

Those aren't the only 2 options. Why would you say that? They have televised the same thing about Islam and the Qur'an. Watch "inside the Qur'an" It is scholary Muslims who say the Qur'an has been changed, and Muslims have confirmed this, as well as liquidity in the Hadiths. (not my words bro).

No Muslim scholar or non-scholar who is Muslim would say the Quran has been changed..if you have different copies then produce them, before writing out of whims or show us the 'televised' scholars so we'd examine their scholarship!

13: 9 Behold, it is We Ourselves who have bestowed from on high, step by step, this reminder:9 and, behold, it is We who shall truly guard it [from all corruption].10

all the best

 

[Italianguy]

No Muslim scholar or non-scholar who is Muslim would say the Quran has been changed..if you have different copies then produce them, before writing out of whims or show us the 'televised' scholars so we'd examine their scholarship!

13: 9 Behold, it is We Ourselves who have bestowed from on high, step by step, this reminder:9 and, behold, it is We who shall truly guard it [from all corruption].10

all the best

I said that wasn't my opinion.

Watch the tv special I am sure it is on dvd or youtube? I saw it on tv. Even Zainab was watching it at the same time....although she wasn't happy with those veiws in it.

I understand what you are trying to say, again , not my veiw of it. Thats why I am here. To learn from people like you. You have helped me exponentialy and I continue to learn from all here.

I was just trying to find the verse in the Qur'an you have listed. I can't find it? I have been reading it for some time now....Amazing to say the least.

And they may have spelled it differently on the show. It may have been "Inside the Koran" My copy says "Qur'an" on the front? Is there a difference?

I was told i can find a free copy? A freind of mine wants to study it as well. I payed $40 for mine, but he doesn't have allot of money. How would he go about doing that? Or is that just for reverts?

God bless.

 

[Italianguy]

I like sis Skye....she keeps me on my toes.

 

[جوري]

I said that wasn't my opinion.

Watch the tv special I am sure it is on dvd or youtube? I saw it on tv. Even Zainab was watching it at the same time....although she wasn't happy with those veiws in it.

I understand what you are trying to say, again , not my veiw of it. Thats why I am here. To learn from people like you. You have helped me exponentialy and I continue to learn from all here.

I was just trying to find the verse in the Qur'an you have listed. I can't find it? I have been reading it for some time now....Amazing to say the least.

And they may have spelled it differently on the show. It may have been "Inside the Koran" My copy says "Qur'an" on the front? Is there a difference?

I was told i can find a free copy? A freind of mine wants to study it as well. I payed $40 for mine, but he doesn't have allot of money. How would he go about doing that? Or is that just for reverts?

God bless.

it is your opinion, and I am starting to think that Zainab might be a name for your pet cat.
bring me the TV show let't all have a look at it here.. (I say that in a non-hostile manner)
Thanks!

all the best

 

[Italianguy]

it is your opinion, and I am starting to think that Zainab might be a name for your pet cat.
bring me the TV show let't all have a look at it here.. (I say that in a non-hostile manner)
Thanks!

all the best

Why would you say thats my opinion? I just said it wasn't. If you believe it, I have to as well until proven otherwise....correct?

I will do my best to provide some kind of link. I have a hard time knowing how to search for that stuff....besides googleing.

And Zainab is not a pet cat:hmm: She is a good woman, friend of my wife and famly friend. And a devout Muslim. You shouldn't call her names Skye, I have not done so to you nor anyone else here.

Do you say such things to get a rise out of me? To get me to show hostility? I will not do so.

God bless.

 

[جوري]

Why would you say thats my opinion? I just said it wasn't. If you believe it, I have to as well until proven otherwise....correct?

I will do my best to provide some kind of link. I have a hard time knowing how to search for that stuff....besides googleing.

And Zainab is not a pet cat:hmm: She is a good woman, friend of my wife and famly friend. And a devout Muslim. You shouldn't call her names Skye, I have not done so to you nor anyone else here.

Do you say such things to get a rise out of me? To get me to show hostility? I will not do so.

God bless.

because you haven't provided me with the evidence from the TV of said 'Islamic scholars' all the talking in the world won't change that, never has, never will. Plato and voltaire and abe lincoln could all come back from the great beyond and plead your case with all the eloquence that humankind has ever mustered, but all the talking still doesn't translate to any evidence from TV with Muslim scholars..

like the last time when you said that face wash is haram and didn't want to link us to the website because well the guy who provided the 'evidence' was banned even from the other forum..

I didn't even go by previous history, just what I know of the Quran, which I have studied cover to cover!

so we can beat around the bush and about zainab and your wife or you can bring me the piece that you saw on TV with Muslim scholars to show us where the Quran has changed!

all the best

 

[Italianguy]

because you haven't provided me with the evidence from the TV of said 'Islamic scholars' all the talking in the world won't change that, never has, never will. Plato and voltaire and abe lincoln could all come back from the great beyond and plead your case with all the eloquence that humankind has ever mustered, but all the talking still doesn't translate to any evidence from TV with Muslim scholars..

like the last time when you said that face wash is haram and didn't want to link us to the website because well the guy who provided the 'evidence' was banned even from the other forum..

I didn't even go by previous history, just what I know of the Quran, which I have studied cover to cover!

so we can beat around the bush and about zainab and your wife or you can bring me the piece that you saw on TV with Muslim scholars to show us where the Quran has changed!

all the best

Actually this time I think I will end it here(as I was told to). Many others here said they saw it was on, at the same time I was watching so maybe they would be able to provide the link. Thanks for all of your help. God bless.

 

[جوري]

Actually this time I think I will end it here(as I was told to). Many others here said they saw it was on, at the same time I was watching so maybe they would be able to provide the link. Thanks for all of your help. God bless.

oh? who are the 'many others?' I can believe that it will end here, as you will extricate yourself from the topic for not being able to back it up, but not because there is any semblance of truth in what you have written!--

all the best

 

[Italianguy]

oh? who are the 'many others?' I can believe that it will end here, as you will extricate yourself from the topic for not being able to back it up, but not because there is any semblance of truth in what you have written!--

all the best

Good night Skye. God be with you.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.. It is scholary Muslims who say the Qur'an has been changed, and Muslims have confirmed this,

if anyone believes that Quran has been changed , then s/he is not a Muslim.
Because God says in Quran :

Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).

( سورة الحجر , Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #9)

Memorizing is one of the ways how Quran was preserved as it was revealed to the last Prophet pbuh. Millions memorized Quran and each adult Muslim know and recite several verses from memory in daily prayers. If anyone wants to change any single word from Quran , Qurane Hafizz ( those who have Quran in memory ) will identify the changes immideatley.

For free Quran and CD , u may write here .

Innovative Audio Insights
P.0. Box 23683 Alexandria, VA 22304


http://www.islamtomorrow.com/order/

 

[Italianguy]

Salaam/Peace



if anyone believes that Quran has been changed , then s/he is not a Muslim.
Because God says in Quran :

Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).

( سورة الحجر , Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #9)

Memorizing is one of the ways how Quran was preserved as it was revealed to the last Prophet pbuh. Millions memorized Quran and each adult Muslim know and recite several verses from memory in daily prayers. If anyone wants to change any single word from Quran , Qurane Hafizz ( those who have Quran in memory ) will identify the changes immideatley.

For free Quran and CD , u may write here .

Innovative Audio Insights
P.0. Box 23683 Alexandria, VA 22304


http://www.islamtomorrow.com/order/

Well, thank you for the info and the link

And thanks for straightening that out for me.

God be with you.

 

[Supreme]

I think what Italianguy means is that there were once different version of the Quran, until it was compiled by Uthman and the others destroyed. Italiaguy, do you concede that pork and usury are indeed not forbidden to Christians?

 

[Grace Seeker]

13: 9 Behold, it is We Ourselves who have bestowed from on high, step by step, this reminder:9 and, behold, it is We who shall truly guard it [from all corruption].

all the best

That is like a Christian quoting 2 Timothy 3:16-17 -- "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Such verses, be they from the Qur'an or the Bible embolden those who already believe the respective scritpures, but they don't speak to unbelievers in the slightest.

 

[جوري]

That is like a Christian quoting 2 Timothy 3:16-17 -- "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Such verses, be they from the Qur'an or the Bible embolden those who already believe the respective scritpures, but they don't speak to unbelievers in the slightest.

ah, but the difference is, history and the copies we have of the Quran are a testament to that safeguarding-- whereas with Christianity you can't get passages from the book to reconcile with each other let alone a protestant book to agree with a coptic one. and are a compilation of words hundreds of years after the fact of the matter from unknown authors! Therein lies the difference..

all the best

 

[جوري]

I think what Italianguy means is that there were once different version of the Quran, until it was compiled by Uthman and the others destroyed. Italiaguy, do you concede that pork and usury are indeed not forbidden to Christians?

there were 'no' different versions of the Quran. the Quran was written in scrolls and in people's memories all along, Uthman (RA) compiled it into four books to be sent to different regions for the purposes of da3wa..

if you want to engage this topic, I suggest you join the 25 page thread, I am not going to whittle myself away over a topic that is discussed in more than one place just to appease the christian desire that all books be lowered down to one common denominator! ..

all the best