question for non-muslims

Ummu Sufyaan

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okay, in islam when we Muslims are struck by some calamities or are facing hardships, etc certain supplications prescribed which have some kinda handsome reward behind it :statisfie:-[ ...so by saying these in times of harship, we hope for a reward, which kind of helps to reduce (well atleast for me) the severity of the harship...get me?

but as non muslims such rewards aren't sought, because they arent prescribed:)

so my question is: how do you non Muslims go through hardships..i mean whats your motivation to keep you patient, etc...
 
so my question is: how do you non Muslims go through hardships..i mean whats your motivation to keep you patient, etc...

You realize that to answer that question you are actually asking me to bear witness to my faith. I am happy to do so, but I wouldn't want someone to accuse me of proselytizing.
 
You realize that to answer that question you are actually asking me to bear witness to my faith. I am happy to do so, but I wouldn't want someone to accuse me of proselytizing.

I don't think there is any danger of that happening Gene.. no offense!

peace
 
You realize that to answer that question you are actually asking me to bear witness to my faith. I am happy to do so, but I wouldn't want someone to accuse me of proselytizing.

Gene, I suspect I know what your answer will be. I think it would be a good thing if you do post it, to help clear up some of the misconceptions we have about each other. I do understand that if your reply is taken out of context of this thread it would be blatant prozelytizing. But, in the interest of this thread and this question I believe that in the interest of general knowledge it needs to be answered and honestly answered by a Christian.

I ask all mods to take no action regarding your answer on this thread. If I see it has gotten out of hand I will close the thread myself, with no infractions against any member.

In the event I am not available, I ask any mod who thinks it is out of hand to simply close the thread and I will review it when I can. (I am currently on the road again, with occasional breaks from driving I will be entering the lower Rockies soon and expect to intermittently loose internet connection on the laptop.)
 
so my question is: how do you non Muslims go through hardships..i mean whats your motivation to keep you patient, etc...

Good question! I don't know. In the end the hardship we suffer is the same, but religion might indeed provide comfort, especially when you lose family members or friends. Atheists might not have a benevolent deity to fall back on, but I would think that other religions, such as Christianity, offer the same level of comfort to their believers.

The humanist response would of course be to put your faith in fellow human beings at such times of hardship and not in a (from our perspective) non-existent deity. Putting energy in a fantasy is not going to help. But not all atheists are humanists of course.

More broadly the non-believers perspective would IMHO be that this one life is all we got, so we better make the best of it and live it to our fullest. We are in control of our own life, not at the mercy of a deity that is "testing" us. Nevertheless, like religious people I would think that most non-believers believe that to a large extend it is our own actions and choices that determine how we end up in life, whether we find happiness or not. In my opinion life is a constant quest to improve yourself, not to please a deity, but because of the belief that good actions and good behavior are the path to personal happiness, as it will be reciprocated and simply because we as social and empathic creatures feel better when doing good.

All said and done though, I do think religious people who believe in divine intervention and an afterlife are at an advantage when dealing with hardship. Note though that from my perspective it is a choice between believing in a fantasy (ie. being misguided and believing there is deity out there that is looking out for you) or facing the cold hard truth. Mind you, I don't really see anything wrong with embracing a fantasy if it really shields me from pains I would otherwise not be able to handle (or would I?). But it simply isn't an option when you don't believe.

But lets be honest here, I don't know! I've never been a Muslim, so I can't really compare! Are religious people happier because their religion helps them overcome times of hardship? I don't know! Does it mean non-religious people have a higher chance of falling into, say, a depression after a major set back? Or maybe people who think they need more comfort to deal with hardships are also more likely to become religious, exactly because they seek that 'comfort', they seek something that many atheists simply don't seek. Again, I don't really know. In the end how someone deals with hardship is so incredibly depended on the individual in question, it depends on someones character and their personal situation, both of which are about a lot more than someones religious beliefs.
 
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B4 I embraced Islam I smoked my body weight in skunk dailly, after 19 years of trying to stop self anaesthetising I converted and realised I no longer wanted to block out hardships and pain. Allahs love and serving Him is more than enouh. :sl:
 
okay, in islam when we Muslims are struck by some calamities or are facing hardships, etc certain supplications prescribed which have some kinda handsome reward behind it :statisfie:-[ ...so by saying these in times of harship, we hope for a reward, which kind of helps to reduce (well atleast for me) the severity of the harship...get me?

but as non muslims such rewards aren't sought, because they arent prescribed:)

so my question is: how do you non Muslims go through hardships..i mean whats your motivation to keep you patient, etc...
I think to some extent it depends on the hardship.

But I like a quote from the Dalai Lhama (even though I'm not a Buddhist):

"If there is a problem and you can do something to change it, then why worry? You have the power to make it better, so do it.
And if there is a problem and you can do nothing to change it, then why worry? It is out of your hands, so don't stress yourself out."

I also think it's important to maintain perspective. I live in modern America: whatever problems I have are nothing compared to someone living in Afghanistan, who has to worry about starving or even getting blown up on a daily basis.

Something else that helps me through rough patches is the fact that I'd rather be alive now than at any point in history. I think the world is getting better, and I'm really curious to see what happens next.
 
I think to some extent it depends on the hardship.

But I like a quote from the Dalai Lhama (even though I'm not a Buddhist):

"If there is a problem and you can do something to change it, then why worry? You have the power to make it better, so do it.
And if there is a problem and you can do nothing to change it, then why worry? It is out of your hands, so don't stress yourself out."

An excellent quote! In the end you have to rely on your own strength and invest in yourself.

I also think it's important to maintain perspective. I live in modern America: whatever problems I have are nothing compared to someone living in Afghanistan, who has to worry about starving or even getting blown up on a daily basis.

Something else that helps me through rough patches is the fact that I'd rather be alive now than at any point in history. I think the world is getting better, and I'm really curious to see what happens next.

I share that sentiment, I'm also quite optimistic about our future. I notice that many Muslims on this forum feel differently though, you notice that "end of time" thinking is quite popular. Maybe because of Islamic doctrine there is always a focus on the rear-view-mirror, on the golden age when the Prophet was still alive. I suppose from that perspective it has only been going downhill from there on. I get the impression that non-believers are more focused on the future and less on a supposed glorious past.
 
You most definatley do not have to rely on your own strength, the fundamental point of religion is to accept strength from the creator. And all of time is equally glorious. For a supposed thinker you have very narrow blinkers, you protest too much and I think you are out to discredit Islam. Its your choice and hellfire is eternal. Enjoy. Allahu Akbar
 
The Christian attitude towards suffering and hardship is all about putting trust in God. People of faith will get diseases, suffer injury, etc just as everyone else. We look to God to give us the strength to make it through.

I don't believe many Christians expect a reward as a result of hardship, I think it is more about learning things about ourselves and our relationship with God. I suppose that could be seen as a "reward" but I think of it more as a lesson. Of course you may die from a disease, but that doesn't mean something special didn't occur before your death. A new outlook or a new understanding.
 
okay, in islam when we Muslims are struck by some calamities or are facing hardships, etc certain supplications prescribed which have some kinda handsome reward behind it :statisfie:-[ ...so by saying these in times of harship, we hope for a reward, which kind of helps to reduce (well atleast for me) the severity of the harship...get me?

but as non muslims such rewards aren't sought, because they arent prescribed:)

so my question is: how do you non Muslims go through hardships..i mean whats your motivation to keep you patient, etc...
Is religion your only motivation?
I find belief helps but it surly is not a major motivator.
 
thanks you for your replies...

Is religion your only motivation?
I find belief helps but it surly is not a major motivator.[/QUOTE]
for me yh, religion is my main motivator, but not my only :)

You most definatley do not have to rely on your own strength, the fundamental point of religion is to accept strength from the creator. And all of time is equally glorious. For a supposed thinker you have very narrow blinkers, you protest too much and I think you are out to discredit Islam. Its your choice and hellfire is eternal. Enjoy. Allahu Akbar
Agreed!!!
 
certain supplications prescribed which have some kinda handsome reward behind it :statisfie:-[ ...so by saying these in times of harship, we hope for a reward, which kind of helps to reduce (well atleast for me) the severity of the harship...get me?
Interesting. Could you describe these supplications. Is this just general praying and the reward is heaven or specific rituals designed to get a certain reward here on earth (i.e. getting you out of your hardship).

For me, the reward for getting through a hardship is a better life for me and my family. So that's a huge motivation.

Thanks.
 
You most definatley do not have to rely on your own strength, the fundamental point of religion is to accept strength from the creator. And all of time is equally glorious. For a supposed thinker you have very narrow blinkers, you protest too much and I think you are out to discredit Islam. Its your choice and hellfire is eternal. Enjoy. Allahu Akbar

Err imsad. What exactly did I say that upset you so much? Perhaps I can learn something from it.

Keep in mind that this thread explicitely asked for a non-Muslim perspective though.
 
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All of it, maybe my problem though, Find I misinterpret text, hard to get true emotion within statements. I offer my apologies if I am wrong. Peace
 
Err imsad. What exactly did I say that upset you so much? Perhaps I can learn something from it.

Keep in mind that this thread explicitely asked for a non-Muslim perspective though.

I find this reaction common. A lot of believers lash out when you make the assertion that you don't need God to be good or that people can be strong enough to get through hardship without turning to religion. I think some may see it as a threat to their worldview.
 
I find this reaction common. A lot of believers lash out when you make the assertion that you don't need God to be good or that people can be strong enough to get through hardship without turning to religion. I think some may see it as a threat to their worldview.

wrong it seemed like wording was derogatory to Muslims, I have offered apologies. And what you are saying is nothing to do with the comment, of course people do not need God to be strong, I said people ask God for strength, like I am now. some people just like to attack any point for the sake of it
 
All of it, maybe my problem though, Find I misinterpret text, hard to get true emotion within statements. I offer my apologies if I am wrong. Peace

I apologize and I will attempt to be more tactful in the future. Obviously there are many people here who passionately believe in a God. Its just that my beliefs are as 'obvious' to me, which might mean I sound a bit too demeaning from time to time.
 
I apologize and I will attempt to be more tactful in the future. Obviously there are many people here who passionately believe in a God. Its just that my beliefs are as 'obvious' to me, which might mean I sound a bit too demeaning from time to time.

Peace and respect look forward to discussion with you in future.
 
Children need to depend. Grown ups who are not spiritual need to depend. [By spiritual I mean the crux of religious teachings - to become free from emotional dependence.] When we are on the path of spirituality, the more we progress, the lesser will be our dependence on the external (for emotional sustenance) and the lesser will we turn to God for anything, for we would welcome everything as a means of understanding it. We need not be cry babies, shrieking to God, help, help.
 

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