Note: Not ARGUING, despite as it appears by the tone.
Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you
Wa alaykum salam,
OK then, knight in shining armour for all sisters, tell me what I meant by 'harsh'?
Let me define 'harsh'. It's obvious you've misunderstood. There was a reason I put it in quotes.
Somebody that has the ability to MAINTAIN WISDOM AND MERCY but NOT BACKING DOWN TO HER WILL when she is in the wrong and be FIRM against any fitnah that may arise.
Men have control for a reason. Lovey dovey crap does not always work (NOT THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE ITS PLACE, in case you misconstrue). Man has a responsibility to be the shepherd and guide the wife and the household.
Saying that above, DOES NOT MEAN that I support: wife beating, arguments, looking down and judging her, being obsessive/dominating/always finding fault in her etc. It DOES NOT MEAN that you don't show love to her NOR does it mean you don't be gentle to her. ALL THIS HAS ITS PLACE IN MARRIAGE and without it, there is not such thing as marriage.
Indeed, Prophet Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam has said the best of you is he who is kindest to his wife. I would fully follow and encourage this command.
No. What I mean is, if the man is not going to ever take a stand and take on the duty Allah has imposed upon him head-on but choose to relinquish his power to the lady and 'let her wear the pants' or run some wishy washy 'joint command' household that is common nowadays then that is frankly new aged nonsense and it is PRECISELY THE REASON WHY THE DIVORCE RATE IS SO HIGH. Women don't know their role and men don't know theirs. Women trying to BE men and take on THEIR responsibility and MEN LETTING THEM is a PROBLEM left unchecked which causes all these marital breakups. You can't have two
Alpha males in one household, each competing for power. Conflict in such a case is INEVITABLE.
Men need to take responsibility and know their role as protecter/guider.
Women need to accept that the man has this God given duty and not feel as though she has been hard done by whenever the man is being 'firm' (OBVIOUSLY NOT TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE (physcical/emotional/otherwise ETC) with her.
even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc.
If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii)
Are you telling me, that if your wife were to go against the command of Allah, you would not even feel anger toward her in your heart? Perhaps you love her too much to feel anger at her specifically, you'd feel anger at the
act that she did instead, right?
I personally would feel anger toward her. This anger is cos I would love her and WANT her to be a good muslim. I want good for her and if I see her doing something wrong, I'd be angry at her specifically for not being good on the deen.
Let's walk through a scenario.
Hypothetical pushover man that doesn't take his duty of guiding and protecting the family from fitnah
seriously:
*Wife does persistent sin*
[First chance of rectifying her] Husband to wife one night in bed: 'Oh honeyyy, can I have a word please?
hew Pleaseee, I need to have a word about some of your behaviour which I think goes against Islam.
mg: I don't want to hurt your feelings thoughhh :-[ but you did xyz the other day and that was wrong, you do it all the time actually. Pwomise me you won't do it again, pweaseee. :-[ We need to fear Allah :statisfie'
Wife: Awww shooo nice of you to have concern. OK sunshine. :statisfie
Husband: yayyy!!! :statisfie
*Wife, however, persists in the same sin*
[Second chance of rectifying her] Husband frowns to himself. Talks to his wife again after having been fed up for a bit:
Husband: Honey :-[ Please you pwomised you wouldn't do it again. :-[
Wife: aww sooo sorry, you have my word pumpkin pie :statisfie
*wife goes on to do her sin again and again*
This goes on for a bit longer, 3,4,5 times where he has the chance to rectify her. He comes to her like a mouse each time and she works her magic and the 'argument' dissipates with her not taking this pushover guy seriously.
Surprise suprise, divorce happens cos the guy's fed up.
I give you the first 1, 2, 3 times of gentle tip-toing around. That is FINE. But only a FOOL would continue in this manner if she is obviously not going to respect you and recognise your role as guider.
Anyway, here is what I'd do
1, 2 and heck even 3, let's say I behaved as above.
[Fourth chance of rectification] Husband to wife: Look, you've been messing around too much now. I've given you plenty of chances of change. Enough is enough. Stop taking the pee. Fear Allah and realise what you are doing is a sin.
I'd remind her constantly until she is fully agreed and I would raise my voice if I have to.
I.e. The 'harsh'/'firm' approach. Have I beaten her? Nope. Have I said something WRONG? NOPE. Am I right to 'chastise' her this way? YES. Is it my DUTY to chastise her? YES.
Yeah I know, there are different scenarious that could come up and you probably would find someone that would be religious to start with and wouldn't contemplate sin etc but please entertain the above as a
hypothetical situation (it doesn't have to be true to real life to illustrate what I'm saying).
Now any Allah fearing woman WOULD take on board what is said. But what you have nowadays, is the typical stupid 'oohh how DARE he talk to me in that voice!!, just who does he think he is?! He's not my father. ^o)'.
THIS is the problem. Women usually can't fathom a guy telling him what to do. THEIR EGO gets the better of them, despite the guy being right in what he says, they don't want to hear any of it. She'll run off to her parents house crying he's so mean to me and blah blah blah, I want divorce!!! She can't handle it.
No no, she wants an EQUAL partnership and can't tolerate being told she is wrong by someone she perceives as her JOINT leader in the household. That's how many sisters are raised. Don't give me that different fiqh for different locations thing here, that is definitely not applicable - men are men and women are women, despite the location. In fact, this is precisely the reason why divorce rates are so high.
Married life is half iman, so I've heard. It takes a lot of sacrifice on BOTH parts. BOTH have to display patience, forgiveness, overlook faults when necessary (NON-DEENI, of course), be kind, caring, loving for a succesful (wordly and otherworldly success, mind you) marriage.
If EITHER goes into the arrangement with an ego (i.e. man is dominating 'Allah has given me the right and you have to do EVERYTHING I say blah blah' and woman is a self-absorbed pampered daddy's girl 'you have noo right to tell me off for anything mister! Only my father does and he never told me off EVER!!' ), then there is obviously going to be a problem from day one. Neither knows their right and neither is Islamically focused.
Sometimes it takes a special and wise kind of guy to be the MAN and say what NEEDS to be said. Not what she WANTS TO HEAR and not in the manner the wife WANTS it to be said. I.e. the manner that she'll ignore cos it's only coming from his dear soppie other half who couldn't ever 'hurt' (KEEP IN MIND, HER IDEA OF HURT IS SOMETHING SILLY LIKE BEING TOLD OFF FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY REASONABLE) her so she can go against what he says without consequence.
the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.
Fair enough. This is I agree with. If you're a muslimah that wants a lovey dovey husband that will give you all the love and attention you want and treat you as his EQUAL and let you RUN THE HOUSEHOLD and a guy that doesn't take his responsibility of guiding away from sin seriously, don't marry a 'harsh' guy that will tell it like it is and not take any compromise when it comes to deen.
I completely agree, there with you, Muraad. The sister would be better off with the clean shaven, pants dropped below the ankle hip new youngster that knows what it's like to live in the west so his way is obviously the more correct one, 'what do these bearded fools know? I'm going to treat my wife like a pwincess yaaay. :statisfie'
KEEP IN MIND,
I'm not talking about wordly nonsense. I.e. Guy becomes harsh for something that is not deen related. I am
against that, unless there is a real negative consequence of wife doing some act (not a sin, anything at all), there is no need to be harsh.
I would however, give more respect to my position of guider when it comes to deen and not tolerate being pushed over. Why? The deen is bigger than petty husband/wife squabbles.
Now also read my reply to umm sufyan, for more insight into what my position is lest you persist in misunderstanding, which she obviously has done:
and you can’t half tell, that some men use the exact same excuse against their wives with ill intent.
“he has right over you in obedience, he can tell you were to go and who to see, and guess what, he can forbid you from seeing your family because he has authority over you, so you better listen to him...” “what the hell is wrong with you fussy lady? i work my guts off for you, how dare you, where do you get off expecting that im going to a sweetheart"
You have to be kidding yourself that brothers who prevent wives from seeing their family and friends (yes even if their family and friends aren’t the best of influence), do so because they sincerely care about their wives. i mean if they do, then a round of applause and credit to them, but its unrealistic to believe that men always use their authority because he truly cares for her. As if some brothers don’t use that authority excuse for the wrong reasons.
Tell me how this is relevant to what I posted? People will abuse, that's a given. Do you honestly think I suggested she go find a person that will abuse Allah's law? What's your point? Keep your emotions on tap. No need to bring in MISPLACED examples when I didn't even suggest otherwise.
Did I say go for the guy that will be as you described? A 'petty/quarrelsome' loser of a guy?
OF COURSE there are people that abuse their position of power. Not everyone does, however.
Sisters ought to marry a guy who knows his responsibility and whose duty is to ALLAH first and foremost. Not to his parents, not to his family/friends, not to his children and not to his wife! At least that way we can be sure he will guide you to jannah and not let you guide him due to any deficiency in you.
A guy that is not going to tolerate any unbecoming conduct in deen and will not allow you to
walk all over him.
Prince charming gentle soppy mouse too-afraid-to-tell-you-what-you-need-to-hear-and-in-THE-MANNER-IN-WHICH-YOU-NEED-IT-SAID-FOR-YOU-TO-TAKE-IT-SERIOUSLY will give you all you want in the DUNYA but won't be of any advantange to you in the hereafter. He's not going to take the appropriate measures to save you from sin (even if he wants to, he wouldn't be able to be firm enough to convince you).
The women of medina used to have to have to upper hand in their household and when the qurash saw this, they thought that maybe they were being too hard on their wives...so they adopted the way of the ansar men.
So im sorry, i don’t fully buy that women who aren’t “yes sir no sir” challenge a husbands/mans ego or that it is a sign of subservience to her.
no, i don’t agree that a wife should be overally bossy to the extent where she is disrespectful of him, etc. But at the same time, a husband should be understanding and sensitive towards his wife and her emotion needs (such as seeing her family) without the ill thoughts that she is trying to walk all over him.
More irrelevant stuff. Did I say she has to be a yes sir/no sir woman? Go on, read my posts again. Did I say he has to be insensitive to her needs? On the contrary woman are too emotional and men NEED empathy. Give her space, show her compassion etc, that's FINE.
YET IT IS ALSO PART OF WISDOM TO SHOW FIRMNESS,
WHEN NEEDED. All other times he can be the gentlest soul in the world to her, though not to the extent that he bows to her every petty demand.
Being possessive and dominate is not good. Being understanding and sensitive is. You can give up a bit of your ego to please your wife...it doesn’t mean it makes you less of a man. You can get the both of best worlds, imo.
I AGREE. This is not even my position.
A man that humbles himself and treats his wife with a foot massage when she's tired, brings her chocolates and flowers to cheer her up, tells her kind soothing words, behaves sweetly with her, pampers her with his love for her is COMMENDABLE and I would ENCOURAGE such behaviour but the moment the wife 'steps out of line' and the lovey dovey method of guiding her back does not work/does not bear any fruit, then the man needs to bring out his authority to guide her with wisdom and if a firm voice is what's required then so be it and I'm not saying he should beat or traumatise her, lest you guys come out with some statistics about domestic/'emotional' violence <_<.
Anyways. I'll stop here. I've said a lot. I've used caps too which some might assume for anger. I'm not 'arguing' nor being a troll. I feel passionate about this matter hence the tone. No bad feelings.
