Question Re: Islam & Christianity

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

when your religions say they are The Truth, doesn't that automatically mean that other beliefs are untrue?

Yes. The truth is one. But that doesn't mean we are to disrespect or abuse others; instead, our kindness and gentle advise will aid others in recognizing the truth.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

So, while you're on earth, if you're working to do everything you can for Allah by obeying his words (and even if you could do everything "good" possible) you still could be eternally separated from God? Does it seem like your life's work is pointless sometimes?

No of course not; it is our righteous deeds which draw us closer to God, and God has promised to reward the righteous.

39:20 But for those who are concious of their Lord, for them will be lofty mansions, built one above another: beneath them flow rivers (of delight): (such is) the Promise of Allah. Never does Allah fail in (His) promise.

Some Christians have the misconception that salvation in Islam is just a currency of good and bad deeds, which is not true. Ultimately, it is God's Mercy that allows one to enter paradise. The good deeds are the means by which we come closer to God and attain His Mercy.

Regards

 

[- Qatada -]

re Unlike the jews and christians who believe they will go to paradise without a doubt

May I disagree here? To my knowledge Catholic Christians (the world's largest grouping) do not believe in guarenteed salvation. They think they are saved by faith and good works. Evangelicals on the other hand mostly do believe that "once saved, always saved" relying on various verses in the bible to back up their claim. But I don't believe Jesus taught that!

Hey.


That's exactly what us muslims believe, we believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is also a Messenger of God, like the previous prophets. He came to bring the message of worshipping God alone without any associates;


[Qur'an 19:88] They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"!

[19:89] You have uttered a gross blasphemy.

[19:90] The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble.

[19:91] Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son.

[19:92] It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

[19:93] Every single one in the heavens and the earth is a servant of the Most Gracious.

[19:94] He has encompassed them, and has counted them one by one.

[19:95] All of them will come before Him on the Day of Resurrection as individuals.


And also:


"And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Ressurection):

‘O ‘Issa, son of Marium! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?’’

He (‘Issa) will say: ‘Glory is to You (Alone)! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You surely, have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and (unseen).’

‘Never did I say to them except what You (Allah) commanded me to say: ‘Worship Allah, My Lord and Your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things.’

‘If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily, You, only You, are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.’

Allah will say: ‘This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: Theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) – they shall abide therein forever.’ Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. That is the great success (Paradise).

To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things."


Al-Ma’idah (5:116-120)


The Truth about Jesus (Part One): The Muslim Nation is More Worthy of Jesus Than All Others
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=547


Peace.

 

[glo]

I agree too. I have friends who are practicing Christians and practicing Muslims, and I admire the devotion and piety of each. Which makes my spiritual indiscision a little confusing!

Pax

What does your heart say?
God says that if you seek him you will find him.

Peace.

 

[- Qatada -]

Yep, glo is sooo right

On the authority of Abu Harayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (PBUH) said: Allah the Almighty said:

I am as My servant thinks I am (1). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.

(1) Another possible rendering of the Arabic is: "I am as My servant expects Me to be". The meaning is that forgiveness and acceptance of repentance by the Almighty is subject to His servant truly believing that He is forgiving and merciful. However, not to accompany such belief with right action would be to mock the Almighty.

It was related by al-Bukhari (also by Muslim, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn-Majah).

Then do ye remember Me; I (Allaah) will remember you. Be grateful to Me, and reject not Faith. (Qur'an 2:152)



Peace.

 

[Paul Williams]

My heart? It says God exists and cares for me, though its important i follow his way. But my head is confused. I've read the Qur'an and the NT...But I'm only a finite, limted human being - how on earth can i come to a certain conclusion about an issue that has divided countless people since the 7th century?

 

[glo]

Hey.

That's exactly what us muslims believe, we believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is also a Messenger of God, like the previous prophets. He came to bring the message of worshipping God alone without any associates;

I don't usually copy and paste, but it is too late in the evening to start writing a long post. :X

Here it goes, some explanation on the Christian view of salvation through faith/ good works (The have sentences in bold are highlighted by me, for emphasis, because to me they demonstrate the Christian thinking very clearly):

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"


Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation - the split between the Protestant church and Catholic church. This question is a key difference between Biblical Christianity and most of the "Christian" cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?


The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard to reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). In reality, Paul and James did not disagree at all. The only point of disagreement some people claim is over the relationship between faith and works. Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).


Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their life is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)! James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works.

Recommended Resource: Faith Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine of Justification by R.C. Sproul.

Here is the source I took this from:
http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html

Blessings.

 

[Paul Williams]

I don't want to start a big debate on Christian theology and the Bible (life being too short!) - I just want to say that i have a different understanding of Paul and James. Reading Acts 21 I see that James (the head of the Jerusalem church) was very much a follower of the Law - see especially vv20 onwards. Paul on the other expressed some very strong views about the laws redundancy see Galatians 3:25. So I would read the debate about justification be faith/weorks diferently. Paul and James disagree profoundly about the continuing role of the law in a Christian's life. Indeed I would go so far as to say that James was a proto-muslim in many respects.

 

[glo]

My heart? It says God exists and cares for me, ...

That's a good start, don't you think?
And believe me, God knows your heart, so you are in a good place!

Your words remind me of the story of Elijah, when he fled from Jezebel and hid in a cave. He prayed to God for help ...

The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD , for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD , but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
(Kings 19: 11-13)

Be patient! You may just find God where you least expect him.

Peace.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Paul

My heart? It says God exists and cares for me,

That is the point I started from when I was about fifty, and a friend said if you believe there is a God you have to do something.

He did not say what I had to do, but if God exists he has to be the greatest thing in this univiverse.

in the spirit of searching for God

Eric

 

[glo]

I don't want to start a big debate on Christian theology and the Bible (life being too short!) - I just want to say that i have a different understanding of Paul and James. Reading Acts 21 I see that James (the head of the Jerusalem church) was very much a follower of the Law - see especially vv20 onwards. Paul on the other expressed some very strong views about the laws redundancy see Galatians 3:25. So I would read the debate about justification be faith/weorks diferently. Paul and James disagree profoundly about the continuing role of the law in a Christian's life. Indeed I would go so far as to say that James was a proto-muslim in many respects.

If Paul and James offer different perspectives, which one do you favour yourself?
You are right, perhaps this is the topic for another thread ...?) :rollseyes

 

[Paul Williams]

If Paul and James offer different perspectives, which one do you favour yourself?
You are right, perhaps this is the topic for another thread ...?) :rollseyes

For me, I am very interested in the earliest Christian movement (after Jesus ascended to Heaven but before Paul comes on the scene). I'm moving in the direction of the view that says Jesus did not teach Justification by Faith...

I love the story of The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke chapter 18:

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I think that teaching says so much about Jesus. I am not sure Paul would have approved of the implications of this parable.

If one reads the story of Zacchaeus the tax collector in Luke 19 (a wonderful story!) Jesus says to him that 'Today salvation has come to his house' because Zacchaeus gives half of his possesions to the poor. Again, very unPauline!

What do you think?

Paul

 

[*Hana*]

For me, I am very interested in the earliest Christian movement (after Jesus ascended to Heaven but before Paul comes on the scene). I'm moving in the direction of the view that says Jesus did not teach Justification by Faith...

....If one reads the story of Zacchaeus the tax collector in Luke 19 (a wonderful story!) Jesus says to him that 'Today salvation has come to his house' because Zacchaeus gives half of his possesions to the poor. Again, very unPauline!

What do you think?

Paul

Peace Paul:

Yes, Paul, I agree with 100%! The teachings of Jesus, pbuh, and His disciples were quite different from Pauline doctrine.

I was just skimming through this thread actually, but noticed you mentioning your confusion. I had the same feeling when I was a Christian and searching for the truth. It's tough. But, you know, I started in about the same place you are now....early Christianity. In time I was able to clear my head of what I had been taught and read and studied with an open mind. I questioned EVERYTHING in both Christianity and Islam. Through common sense and logic I moved closer towards Islam. God says in the bible He is not the author of confusion....yet the more I studied the more I was confused. For me, the thought that my salvation was based on my acceptance of the trinity was more than scarey. My salvation was based on something that no one has ever been able to explain. :? Seems a little unfair, and as we all know, God is the most just.

I didn't just read the Qur'an and embrace Islam either. I would read, argue, search, ask questions....just as I did with the Bible. The difference for me was the logic found in the Qur'an. Because I don't read Arabic it was necessary for me to read the translations and meanings of the Holy Qur'an in english, which also meant it was necessary to ask for clarification of surahs from native arab speakers. I would ask 5 or 6 people....not just one.

After 3 years of this, for me, I could no longer deny the truth of Islam, Alhamdulillah. We all have to search in a way that is best for us as individuals. For me, it was the use of logic. (I'm a stickler for things being logical lol). In the end, Allah, swt, guides who He wills. But, for sure guidance won't just fall in your lap. Waiting for the right moment won't work. He will guide, but it's up to you to follow. You've been guided here so far, but it's your choice to follow and continue your search.

May Allah, swt, continue to guide you and bring you closer to the truth. Ameen

Peace,
Hana

 

[Paul Williams]

thank you for your kind words....

Paul

 

[snakelegs]

Hey.
That's really surprising, because we as muslims believe that it is in the fitrah of man to believe in One God (monotheism) and even if you were to ask an innocent child, does God have children, the child would most likely say no.
Continued...
Peace.

actually as a child i didn't either believe in god or not believe in god.

 

[snakelegs]

What does your heart say?
God says that if you seek him you will find him.

Peace.

if both muslims and christians had this attitude, there wouldn't need to be any conflict between them.
consensus here does seem to be that there is no reason why the 2 religions have to clash with each other as long as you can both respect the other path. but again, how can you respect it if you feel a need to change the other person?

 

[snakelegs]

eace:

We can live peacefully with each other without biting each others heads off if thats what you mean but we can never accept to follow each others ways .

eace:

makes sense to me as long as one didn't try to dominate each other - there is no need to agree in order to live together peacefully.

 

[*Hana*]

if both muslims and christians had this attitude, there wouldn't need to be any conflict between them.
consensus here does seem to be that there is no reason why the 2 religions have to clash with each other as long as you can both respect the other path. but again, how can you respect it if you feel a need to change the other person?

Peace snakelegs:

I can only speak for me, but I never feel the need to change another person. It is my duty to invite others to Islam, but I know it is only Allah, swt, that will guide. So, I never become angry (as long as the other person isn't bashing my faith....I don't like that and will usually end the conversation). In the end, I guess it's all a matter of personal choices. There are good and bad everywhere and although there are many that don't share my religious beliefs, it doesn't make them bad people and vice versa.

But, unfortunately, many of us do judge the other based on religion, colour or nationality, etc., I don't think this can ever be prevented and we can only be responsible for how we, as individuals, behave towards others.

Peace,
Hana

 

[snakelegs]

The logical consequence of belief in God is submission to Him. This is what Islam means. Islam is not just 'another religion' it is a complete way of life containing a message that has been preached by every Prophet - worship One God and do good deeds so as to come near to Him. So it is not just a matter of 'belonging to a religion' the issue is accepting the way of life and the moral conduct which God has ordained for us. Once we recognize (in accordance with our natural human disposition) the One Creator and Sustainer of our universe, then we submit to His way and accept the message that He has revealed to us because it tells us how we can come closer to Him. How can you have a relationship with God if you know nothing of Him nor of what He wants from you? The purpose of God's revelation is to instruct human beings on how to live their life and come closer to God, worshipping Him in the most perfect manner that is most pleasing to Him.

Regards

i understand that this is the position of islam. makes sense from your standpoint.

 

[Goku]

At the moment we are all co-existing sort of ...but a clash is inevitable between Europe and the ME.. God tells us so all through the Bible.

Where? Can you quote the passages please.