Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!

[Malaikah]

^In that case why dont you just saw thank you God for making me a man? :? (it's not like the only thing he didnt make you is a female gentile or slave...)

 

[rav]

^In that case why dont you just saw thank you God for making me a man? :? (it's not like the only thing he didnt make you is a female gentile or slave...)

may do say 'praised are you Hashem for making me a man, free, and a jew' it is all a matter of how you wish to say. i personally believe some say it opposites because they wish to look at what could have been... like what if G-d made me a women, slave, or non-jew? my life would be so different because i would not be obligated to follow the holy Torah, i would not have the same traditions responsibilities if I was a women (or for a women if i was a man) and if i was a slave then i wouldnt be able to worship Hashem.

It is all pespective. the basic part of it is to be thankful for the place Hashem put you, and the role he put you in.

it is a very interesting debate on which perspective it should be looked at like "praised are you Hashem who made me..." or "praised are you Hashem who did not make me..."

may people have very strong opinions about it.

 

[rav]

it's not like the only thing he didnt make you is a female gentile or slave

those are however in direct corralation with your ability to worship him. and the role you were chosen to worship him.

plus, we do not just recite those three, we thank him for many things like health, ect.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Correct, but it is not an insult, it is thanking G-d for putting someone in thier role. My wife says thank you for not making me a man. .[/B]

We regularly heard criticism by mainstream media that how Islam is an anti-women religion. I wonder , why no media ever tells us that Jewish holy book has such verse ? Why this double
standard ?


Another question : I read in a Jewish site about gentile/convert Jew that " When he starts studying about Jewish commandments and observing Jewish holidays, he is stepping out of his role as a righteous gentile and entering the role of a Jew.


.............A gentile can become a Jew through conversion but a righteous gentile is righteous in his own right and is forbidden to try to over-step his role


So, does not mean that born Jews & convert Jews are not equal ?


http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/short.html

 

[IzakHalevas]

We regularly heard criticism by mainstream media that how Islam is an anti-women religion. I wonder , why no media ever tells us that Jewish holy book has such verse ? Why this double
standard ?

I think you critisism is not valid. We are not thanking G-d for not making us the opposite sex, we are thanking him for our roles.

Are me and my wife both sexist since she says:

"Praised are you Hashem who did not make me a man"

and I say

"Praised are you Hashem who did not make me a woman"

Is Judaism sexist towards both genders then?

The media does not cover it because Judaism is equal, men and women are both thankful for the roles they are put in on this earth.

So if the media were to cover these verses than they would obviously have to cover both basically saying Jews praises G-d for not mkaing them men, if they are women and not making them women if they are men.

There is no sexism, just a concept which someone who does not hold a huge amount of brain power cannot decipher.

.............A gentile can become a Jew through conversion but a righteous gentile is righteous in his own right and is forbidden to try to over-step his role


So, does not mean that born Jews & convert Jews are not equal ?

Just to let you know I am a convert to Judaism from Turkey!

When one converts they are exactly equal to regular Jews.

Read this for Judaisms opinion of converts:

"Dearer to G-d than all of the Israelites who stood at Mount Sinai is the convert. Had the Israelites not witnessed the lightning, thunder, and quaking mountain, and had they not heard the sounds of the shofar, they would not have accepted the Torah. But the convert, who did not see or hear any of these things, surrendered to G-d and accepted the yoke of heaven. Can anyone be dearer to G-d than such a person?"
Tanhuma (ed. Buber),
Lekh Lekha 6:32

 

[Abu Zakariya]

I think the point that the sister was trying to get across is that even though some aspects of Islam can be explained in the same way you just explained the prayer you say in which you thank God He didn't make you a woman, they still try to make it seem as if there are some aspects of Islam that are sexist. For instance, men aren't allowed to shake hands with strange women. Recently, the mainstream media here where I live (in Sweden) has claimed that this is since in Islam, women are considered impure (najjis) by nature. This myth has been spread on Swedish national television! However, in Islam, women aren't allowed to shake hands with strange men. Does this mean that men are impure by nature? So this is simply a lie, just like some people lie when they try to make it seem as if this aspect of Judaism is sexist. I think the Jews on this forum have made a good job explaining this issue.

I have seen books here in Sweden which mention that Jews say that particular prayer and have tried to make it seem as if this would make Judaism a sexist religion.

I think that the media should be responsible and stop spreading myths about both Islam and Judaism, since we have seen that the demonization of both Jews and Muslims have recently led to genocide here in "enlightened" Europe (even thought, in the case of the Jews, it was of course far worse what happened to them in terms of number of killed people).

Anyway, I'd like to ask a question. Can a righteous gentile that follows the seven laws ever reach a high status and be more noble than a Jew?

 

[IzakHalevas]

For instance, men aren't allowed to shake hands with strange women.

Same in Judaism.

think the point that the sister was trying to get across is that even though some aspects of Islam can be explained in the same way you just explained the prayer you say in which you thank God He didn't make you a woman

Of course, the media wishes to basically attack islam sometimes, and that is because of its anti-religious secular nature.

However, in Islam, women aren't allowed to shake hands with strange men. Does this mean that men are impure by nature? So this is simply a lie, just like some people lie when they try to make it seem as if this aspect of Judaism is sexist. I think the Jews on this forum have made a good job explaining this issue.

Thank you. I completly agree with your statement.

Anyway, I'd like to ask a question. Can a righteous gentile that follows the seven laws ever reach a high status and be more noble than a Jew?

Yes. A righteous gentile who follows the seven laws can be what we call a "tzadik" or rightous man the same as a Jew. The only difference is that Jews must follow 613 laws while gentiles 7. Many would see it as a burden to follow all these laws and would choose 7 which gets you to heaven of course. These people are never ready to convert because they cannot see beyond this which is following more of G-d's law is an honor, which is why I converted, although, I would have been fine following the 7 laws before.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

I think you critisism is not valid. We are not thanking G-d for not making us the opposite sex, we are thanking him for our roles.

Are me and my wife both sexist since she says:

"Praised are you Hashem who did not make me a man"

---is that prayer mentioned in the Jewish holy book ?







The media does not cover it because Judaism is equal, men and women are both thankful for the roles they are put in on this earth.


------ Media love to bash Islam ... at that time they don't think that "Muslim men and women are both thankful for the roles they are put in on this earth."



Just to let you know I am a convert to Judaism from Turkey!


--- Are u allowed to perform all the religious acts just like a born Jew or some Rabbis think that u r ''over-stepping '' ur role ?

in Islam, women aren't allowed to shake hands with strange men.

--it's not that in Islam only ' women aren't allowed to shake hands with strange men ' . Men & women both must not shake hands with each other to avoid the tempatation. Not only with strangers ....it's applicable to known persons , too. God told us in Quran to avoid those acts which can lead us to adultery. So, keep a safe physical distance from each other is a must.

 

[IzakHalevas]

Shalom Muslim Woman, you wrote:

---is that prayer mentioned in the Jewish holy book ?

Depends which prayer book you use. Or are you refering to if that prayer is mentioned in the scriptures?

------ Media love to bash Islam ... at that time they don't think that "Muslim men and women are both thankful for the roles they are put in on this earth."

That is not my problem, and I do sympathize with you since I know Islam is not sexist.

--- Are u allowed to perform all the religious acts just like a born Jew or some Rabbis think that u r ''over-stepping '' ur role

Of course.

--it's not that in Islam only ' women aren't allowed to shake hands with strange men ' . Men & women both must not shake hands with each other to avoid the tempatation. Not only with strangers ....it's applicable to known persons , too. God told us in Quran to avoid those acts which can lead us to adultery. So, keep a safe physical distance from each other is a must.

Okay.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

Shalom Muslim Woman, you wrote:


Depends which prayer book you use. Or are you refering to if that prayer is mentioned in the scriptures?

-----regarding Jewish holy book a man needs to thank God for not being a woman. Do women must say that "Praised are you Hashem who did not make me a man" ? Is it a command to do so or ur wife says it out of her own will ?

That is not my problem, and I do sympathize with you since I know Islam is not sexist.

Of course , it's not ur problem . Media only condemn Quran for having few verses on war . Media remain silent & never mention that Jewish holy books tell that u have to destroy a city of idol worshippers including cattles.

I m not attacking ur holy book , i m criticising the double standard of the media.

Are u allowed to perform all the religious acts just like a born Jew or some Rabbis think that u r ''over-stepping '' ur role

Of course.

Of course to what ? Rabbis think , u r over-stepping ur role ? To my knowledge , some commandments are reserved for Jews only.

 

[IzakHalevas]

-----regarding Jewish holy book a man needs to thank God for not being a woman. Do women must say that "Praised are you Hashem who did not make me a man" ? Is it a command to do so or ur wife says it out of her own will ?

We are told to do neither. What we are told to do is praise G-d for putting us into the role he chose us. Now as you know it can be said many different ways.

Of course , it's not ur problem . Media only condemn Quran for having few verses on war . Media remain silent & never mention that Jewish holy books tell that u have to destroy a city of idol worshippers including cattles.

I m not attacking ur holy book , i m criticising the double standard of the media.

Okay... :uhwhat

Of course to what ? Rabbis think , u r over-stepping ur role ? To my knowledge , some commandments are reserved for Jews only.

As in of course I can practice whatever I want. The only things I cannot is the rituals Kohen and Levites do, which were the priests and people can trace there lineage back to. Since 95% of Jews are not Levite or Kohen I as a convert cannot perform rituals that around 95% of born Jews cannot either. But that is it.

 

[Muslim Woman]

salaam;

if i was a slave then i wouldnt be able to worship Hashem.

----why ? What's the problem ?



Salman Al-Farisi was a slave, originally from a Persian town called Ram-Hurmuz (Al-Bukhari).

Being a salve or a non-Arab did not stop the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) from holding him in high esteem and saying that Salman was one of the members of his household (At-Tabarani).

Around the World in One Day

We are told to do neither. What we are told to do is praise G-d for putting us into the role he chose us. Now as you know it can be said many different ways.

---- A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave. Shabbath 86a-86b.

http://www.convertstoislam.org

how it's not an insult to women ? As a sister mentioned earlier , why not just thank God for being a man , why mention thank for not being a slave /gentile /woman etc ?


New Question: Jews men can marry 3 years old girl? Sanhedrin 55b

 

[IzakHalevas]

----why ? What's the problem ?



Salman Al-Farisi was a slave, originally from a Persian town called Ram-Hurmuz (Al-Bukhari).

Being a salve or a non-Arab did not stop the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) from holding him in high esteem and saying that Salman was one of the members of his household (At-Tabarani).

True, but slaves in most times were generally forced to take on the faith of their master. When they did not they usually were killed. Not only this, but when Jews were slaves of Romans they were denied to be allowed to Pray the three times a day. So we praise Hashem for not putting us in a position where we cannot praise him all 3 times a day.

---- A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave. Shabbath 86a-86b.

I do not think you understand the Gemora/Talmud. Most of the opinions are debates between Rabbi's and then the courts decide which one is right.

There is another passage in the Talmud which says, women must Praise G-d for creating them as no other gender, as free people, as jews.

There is another opinion that men should thank G-d for all the roles he put them in and that is it and not specify. There are millions of opinions! There was one Rabbi who had that opinion.

His side one that a Man and Women are obligated to Praise hashem for putting them in there role.

The Majority of Siddurim do not have the prayer "for not making me a women", the majority have "for making me a man" and for women "for making me a women".

Jews will say "for not making me a women sometimes, but this is not because women are any less than men, but because as men they are in the role where they were given special traditions to follow, just like women have special traditions they follow to that men cannot.

The prayer has no meaning to be sexist although from the outside I can see how you would think this.

New Question: Jews men can marry 3 years old girl? Sanhedrin 55b

NO!!!!!!!! ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!!! These are completly false and baseless accusations/attacks on the Talmud!

The accusation here is quite nefarious. It implies that Judaism permits pedophilia, has no respect for women, and generally advocates loose sexual morals. To those familiar with the Talmud, this claim is patently ridiculous. However, the majority of people — particularly those making this claim — know little to nothing about the Talmud, its contents, or its methodology. On our website The Real Truth About The Talmud, we elaborate on these issues. However, for now, we will focus on the accusation at hand. It is, in fact, easily verified as being incorrect.

The Text
Talmud Ketuvot 11b (The citation mentioned is evidently in error. Talmud Yevamot 11b has no relevant passage)

Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav: A male child who has relations with a female adult causes her to be like one who was injured with a stick... Rava said: This is what was meant - an adult male who has relations with a female child has not done anything because less than this [three years old] is like sticking a finger into an eyeball.


While those unused to these Talmudic discussions might be taken aback by the use of euphemisms, the discussion here relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins. It has nothing to do with what acts are allowed, encouraged, forbidden, or discouraged. It is, indeed, ironic that this passage has been manipulated from its original context of a financial discussion into one of a religious discussion. While there are numerous talmudic passages of a religious nature, this one discusses dowries and not forbidden and permitted relations!

The Talmud relates that a virgin is entitled a higher dowry. While the tell-tale sign of virginity is the release of blood due to the breaking of the hymen on the wedding night, there are occasions when the hymen has already been broken such as when the woman suffered an injury. The Talmud here quotes Rav Yehuda in the name of Rav that a sexual act with a male minor is not considered to be a loss of virginity because one of the participants is not fully active. While the female's hymen may have been broken, she has not engaged in what can be classified as a sexual act (although it is certainly child abuse).

The Talmud continues and quotes Rava as saying that a sexual act between a male adult and a female under the age of three is also not considered a loss of virginity (although it is child abuse). Since the girl is too young for her hymen to be broken, she is still considered a virgin.

Nowhere is the Talmud permitting such behavior. Sex outside of a marriage is strictly forbidden (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4, Hilchot Na'arah Betulah 2:17; Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 26:1, 177:5) as is this obvious case of child abuse. The Talmud is only discussing ex post facto what would happen if such a case arose.

That non-marital sexual relations is prohibited is stated explicitly by Maimonides in the following passage from his ground-breaking legal code Mishneh Torah:

Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4

Whoever has licentious relations with a woman without marriage bonds is lashed by biblical mandate.


The claim that the Talmud, or normative Judaism, permits sexual relations with a minor is almost entirely incorrect. The slight truth in it is that, in certain societies in history, people were sometimes married as young as ten. While this was most recently done in Czarist Russia in order to avoid being drafted into the Czar's army (which was made especially difficult for Jews), it is not currently done. However, even in that case, marriage is required before having sexual relations. Judaism as a religion prohibits sexual relations, indeed even minor touching such as holding hands, outside of marriage.

It is certainly true that there are individual Jews who do not follow the teaching of the Talmud. That is their personal choice, just like many Catholics choose to use birth control and have premarital relations despite their religion's teaching against it. This does not mean that Catholicism permits premarital relations and it does not mean that Judaism (and the Talmud) does either. The personal choices of people whether to follow completely their religion does not reflect on what their religion teaches. Similarly, the fact that certain Muslims drink alcohol and frequent prostitutes does not mean that their religion permits it. It means that these individuals choose to defy their religion.

We leave it to others to deduce why some people would make baseless accusations against the Talmud and, by implication, Judaism and Jews.

 

[Silver Pearl]

:salamext: and Greetings,


Warning: I can understand that you're all eager to learn and thanks must be passed on to Iza's for his hardwork. So please people if you want to ask a question, don't extract it from anti-jewish websites. It is fine to inquire but be aware of the person's feelings and phrase your questions in a gentle manner so not to offend one another. If a topic has been dealt with search for it please, note that its Iza doing all the answering here and I'm sure he'll get a bit annoyed if he keeps answering the same things again and again.


Please respect one anther and surely that will divert the discussion to better terms Inshallah (God willing) rather than this thread turning into insulting war zone. I'm sure that is not the intentions of our members

Thank you and Jazakallah khayr.

 

[lavikor201]

rav,

Would you consider yourself an expert on Gemora?

 

[rav]

rav,

Would you consider yourself an expert on Gemora?

not nessesarily, i know enough to get by about the shisha sedarim, but i consider myself more knowledgable in knowing what is issur and what is not, especially when it becomes complicated and also bs"d a talmid chochom.

 

[Umar001]

NO!!!!!!!! ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!!! These are completly false and baseless accusations/attacks on the Talmud!

The accusation here is quite nefarious. It implies that Judaism permits pedophilia, has no respect for women, and generally advocates loose sexual morals. To those familiar with the Talmud, this claim is patently ridiculous. However, the majority of people — particularly those making this claim — know little to nothing about the Talmud, its contents, or its methodology. On our website The Real Truth About The Talmud, we elaborate on these issues. However, for now, we will focus on the accusation at hand. It is, in fact, easily verified as being incorrect.

The Text
Talmud Ketuvot 11b (The citation mentioned is evidently in error. Talmud Yevamot 11b has no relevant passage)

Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav: A male child who has relations with a female adult causes her to be like one who was injured with a stick... Rava said: This is what was meant - an adult male who has relations with a female child has not done anything because less than this [three years old] is like sticking a finger into an eyeball.


While those unused to these Talmudic discussions might be taken aback by the use of euphemisms, the discussion here relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins. It has nothing to do with what acts are allowed, encouraged, forbidden, or discouraged. It is, indeed, ironic that this passage has been manipulated from its original context of a financial discussion into one of a religious discussion. While there are numerous talmudic passages of a religious nature, this one discusses dowries and not forbidden and permitted relations!

The Talmud relates that a virgin is entitled a higher dowry. While the tell-tale sign of virginity is the release of blood due to the breaking of the hymen on the wedding night, there are occasions when the hymen has already been broken such as when the woman suffered an injury. The Talmud here quotes Rav Yehuda in the name of Rav that a sexual act with a male minor is not considered to be a loss of virginity because one of the participants is not fully active. While the female's hymen may have been broken, she has not engaged in what can be classified as a sexual act (although it is certainly child abuse).

The Talmud continues and quotes Rava as saying that a sexual act between a male adult and a female under the age of three is also not considered a loss of virginity (although it is child abuse). Since the girl is too young for her hymen to be broken, she is still considered a virgin.

Nowhere is the Talmud permitting such behavior. Sex outside of a marriage is strictly forbidden (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4, Hilchot Na'arah Betulah 2:17; Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 26:1, 177:5) as is this obvious case of child abuse. The Talmud is only discussing ex post facto what would happen if such a case arose.

That non-marital sexual relations is prohibited is stated explicitly by Maimonides in the following passage from his ground-breaking legal code Mishneh Torah:

Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4

Whoever has licentious relations with a woman without marriage bonds is lashed by biblical mandate.


The claim that the Talmud, or normative Judaism, permits sexual relations with a minor is almost entirely incorrect. The slight truth in it is that, in certain societies in history, people were sometimes married as young as ten. While this was most recently done in Czarist Russia in order to avoid being drafted into the Czar's army (which was made especially difficult for Jews), it is not currently done. However, even in that case, marriage is required before having sexual relations. Judaism as a religion prohibits sexual relations, indeed even minor touching such as holding hands, outside of marriage.

It is certainly true that there are individual Jews who do not follow the teaching of the Talmud. That is their personal choice, just like many Catholics choose to use birth control and have premarital relations despite their religion's teaching against it. This does not mean that Catholicism permits premarital relations and it does not mean that Judaism (and the Talmud) does either. The personal choices of people whether to follow completely their religion does not reflect on what their religion teaches. Similarly, the fact that certain Muslims drink alcohol and frequent prostitutes does not mean that their religion permits it. It means that these individuals choose to defy their religion.

We leave it to others to deduce why some people would make baseless accusations against the Talmud and, by implication, Judaism and Jews.

Hi IzakHalevas,

I like this thread and I am pleased that you and others have decided to take it upon yourself to educate and answer questions and also search for answers yourselfs, which is a good thing, I am also pleased that the website, islamicboard.com, has allowed this thread, which in some ways is a suprise to some non-Muslims.

Anyhow, I do sympathise with the feeling of anger towards accusations which are false, I also do not wish to bring about such feelings, but I do have honest questions, with regards to the above, I took a look at the refutation provided, which is speaking with regards to a particular saying of someone, a saying found in Ketuvot 11b whilst if we look at the question given by Sister Muslim Woman we see she gives reference to Sanhedrin 55b

New Question: Jews men can marry 3 years old girl? Sanhedrin 55b

So, this makes me wonder that maybe, it is possible that Ketuvot 11b is as the article says 'nothing to do with what acts are allowed, encouraged, forbidden, or discouraged.' But rather talking about 'financial discussion'. Which is all well, but it leaves the passage Muslim Woman asked about still un answered, does 'Sanhedrin 55b' give such a statement as asked by Muslim Woman?

I hope this does not offend you, I think that if you see why some of us might be confused or tricked by other people you might understand why we ask, the whole Talmaud thing is not an easy thing to follow, from what I have found, unless alot of dedication is given, sometimes non-Jews dont have the time as such to dedicate that much, so when we hear such things we are alarmed, so I hope there is a reply to the Sanhedrin 55b.

Eesa.

Also, Rav,

in the talmud and midrash references to the prophet moshe can be found.

I did kind of ask, I'm not sure if you missed it, if you did here's my question:

'..how would these be verified, I mean for a Jew I'm guessing you dont need any 'verification' for the Torah, but what about stuff outside the Torah. Including quotes from Moses, peace be upon him, and quotes from Rabbis of old.'

Thanks for your patience

Eesa.

 

[rav]

took a look at the refutation provided, which is speaking with regards to a particular saying of someone, a saying found in Ketuvot 11b

yes, i was actually wondering about that to. i think he may have confused the accusations because the 'child sex lie' is so common. the marriage one, is nothing to care about, because it was not an accepted opinion in the talmud.

let me explain:

there are almost always two opinions of rabbis areguing over a matter in the talmud. you will have one rabbi say one thing, while another says another thing. of course only one way can be decided, and the conflict of what to do when rape occurs and someone is not a virgin anylonger (especially a girl) is a very complicated one.

i am not sure if this opinion was even accepted to be honest but it be first explain what it is about, and why it is taken out of context:

Jews set limits of what could be labeled intercourse. If any man had intercourse with a female over three years, she was no longer considered a virgin. This standard (3-years) had already been set because of the question of virginity and rape.

Huge importance was placed on the purity of a new bride. A Jewish man that followed tradition expected his new wife to be a virgin and if he asked beforehand, he was supposed to be told whether she is or not. If a bride was found to not be a virgin on her wedding night, the husband could divorce her.

Many, many laws and stipulations are spread throughout the Talmud about how to determine virginity and the many exceptions that could be made in questionable areas (some of these covered later). One situation was the unfortunate possibility that a little girl may have been raped or injured.

Since very young girls are still developing physically, it was determined that the genitalia of those three and under would eventual heal if raped or injured and, in effect, still be virgins. It DOES NOT endorse or encourage Jews to marry children. In the very extreme case of who you could marry, proof of virginity could only be done if the bride is over three years old. So basically, is she is raped after 3 years old, then it gets complicated because she cannot heal and might not be considered before marriage.

So basically, if a girl is raped, and she is under three, she may heal and then be considered a virgin.

Therefore she can marry when she turns three because she will be considered a virgin again.

In conclusion, i have never heard of a jew marryign a 3 year old, there are some cases where a boy and a girl have an arranged marriage at three, so many might condiser them to be married but they aren't even aloud to be alone together until there actual wedding day.

hope this does not offend you, I think that if you see why some of us might be confused or tricked by other people you might understand why we ask, the whole Talmaud thing is not an easy thing to follow

believe me, it is tough for everyone to follow. it is easy to quote a radical person in the talmud who argued in favor of something and lost because his idea was dumb. what many do not realize is that all words in the talmud are not law, there are many arguments between the rabbis and only ONE opinion can be law.

did kind of ask, I'm not sure if you missed it, if you did here's my question:

'..how would these be verified, I mean for a Jew I'm guessing you dont need any 'verification' for the Torah, but what about stuff outside the Torah. Including quotes from Moses, peace be upon him, and quotes from Rabbis of old.'

i am not aware of sources outside of the jewish holy books that quote the prophet moshe.

 

[rav]

i will ask someone more knowledgable in the talmud if there are any other opinions on that section.

i believe the argument of a three year old if raped and if she is still a virgin and can be married ect is the correct opinion although i am unsure if it is anything more than an opinion in the talmud by "R. Joseph"

 

[rav]

another opinion:

The Talmud strongly opposed formation of the marriage bond by sexual force (at any age) and punished those who acted in such manner (Kidushin 12b). Sanhedrin 55b says IF a girl is raped – if she is younger than 3 she is still considered a virgin for the sake of later marriage. If she is older then 3 it is considered RAPE and one of the compensations is that her father may demand the perp marry her as well as pay all the criminal penalties.

Remember that the man is not allowed to have sex with a 3 year old – we are discussing what happens if someone DOES. The Talmud goes on to say that the father's right to marry off his daughter was to be used for her benefit. The age and manner of marriage is to a large extent a societal variable but at Kidushin 41a the rabbis taught: "It is forbidden for a man to betroth his daughter while she is young [but rather he should wait] till she has grown and says 'This is the one I want [to marry]" and this teaching is repeated elsewhere in the Talmud.

Right in line with the distortion of "it is ok to marry 3 year olds" is one lifted out of "Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old."

Gee, what happened to 3?

This is about boys, not girls and the Talmud doesn’t say what your quote would indicate. Read what Leviticus has to say about homosexuality regardless of age.

Leviticus says that if a man lies with another man, both must be killed. What Sanhedrin 54b says is that if one of the participants is under nine years old, he is not considered a "man" - and so it is not required that the child be put to death.

Do you think the Jews should put a 9 year old victim of homosexual rape to death? Would that be better to your way of thinking????

There are many anti-Jewish sites who perpetrate lies about Talmud so they can hate the Jews and feel good about themselves. Somehow they forget Jesus was a Jew and abided by the Jewish laws.

This is exactly what Hitler did. He dehumanized the Jews. It is easy to hate a caricature.