Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!

[Grace Seeker]

I appreciate the response. I agree that who started "it" is irrelevant. What is relevant is how one responds to whatever "it" is.

I even understand the sense of needing to protect one's self -- certainly that was the USA's response after 9/11 (which explains going after Al Qaida, not Iraq, but I'm getting off topic). Though, I'm not sure that I see said positions as biblically based as you do, but that may be the difference in a Jewish interpretation of the Bible and Christian. I cannot shake Jesus' commentary:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Now, honestly, I cannot find in scripture any place where it is written "hate your enemies", so perhaps Jesus is commenting on the popular understanding of the time, not on the Torah. Or perhaps, as I am learning here, he is commenting on the Oral Law. In any case, it sounds strikingly familiar to the point of the article you cited:

[Leviticus]19:18 instructs us, "Rebuke your neighbor." In other words, love, as expressed by the Bible, is not uncon-ditional.

Certainly the ethic of Jesus differs from many of the other ethics presented whether it be one of returning "eye for eye, tooth for tooth", the self defense model, or Rabbi Michael J. Gotlieb's rebuking is a form of love model. Of course, rebuking can be a form of love. And indeed I think when one reads all of Leviticus 19:17 that we can see the Rabbis point that love is not about an emotion, that it is an action:

Leviticus 19
15 " 'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16 " 'Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
" 'Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am the LORD.

17 " 'Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.

18 " 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

And so, we behave toward our brother, our neighbor in ways that build them up rather than tear them down. And we even rebuke our of love, not out of hate in one's heart.

But I gotta love Jesus' ethic who says this applies not only to one's brother or one's neighbor, but even one's enemies. And who also went so far as to say that even the despised Samaritan was to be considered a neighbor in the context of these verses. Yes, I see that it is a different ethic than what you feel is necessary to keep as Jews. Thank-you for the education.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Muslim Woman,

.....

Salaam/peace;

99.9% of the time children throwing rocks do not get killed or hurt.

-- ……I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport,"


---Chris Hedges, a reporter for the New York Times.


…will the memory of the atrocities against these "un-Chosen" people be extinguished?


Source: The Israeli Holocaust Against Arab Children

why should we care what you think?

---I m not asking to care about what I think. I mentioned already that I m interested to know about religious view.

So , u are sure that the way Jews are treating Muslims is approved by the God Almighty ?

You got greedy, and G-d decided to punish you.

---how do u know God decided to punish us ? God told u so ?

How do u know it’s not a test & if Muslims pass the test ,we will be rewarded ? How do u know God is not testing Jews if they can come back to the right path & don’t repeat the mistakes they did in the past ?



If it’s a test , then I think , many Jews are failing miserably ….. they are happy what wealth & power they are getting in this world ……they are not thinking about the hereafter .



If u r right & it’s the punishment for us , then I think , it’s better to get punishment in this life rather than receive it on the Last Day as a sinner.

So, if really we are greedy , I would love to be punished here but I don’t have courage to think about any punishment on the Last Day.


God is angry with me on the Day I need Him most………uhhhhhh , no , no , let Him punish me/us here for years. Insha Allah , I /we will be patient .

If you have a question about Judaism ask it, but do not keep ranting on about Judaism and a soldier possibly killing a child who continued to throw rocks at innocent civilians.

---- if Judaism supports it , then ok , I won’t ask anymore .

If it does not , then I ask to give some verses that tell Jewish soldiers to treat non-Jews kids more humanely.

Stop asking us these questions about what a Rabbi supports. Who cares what a Rabbi supports!

---Geeeeee , I thought Rabbis are the most learned persons about the holy Book…….so what they support are supposed to be correct by ur religious laws .


So ,u don’t care about Rabbis opinion…….hehe ….. off topic but which Rabbi converted u ? he will be happy to hear that ?

It is what G-d supports

---- God supports killing of kids ? Are r referring to any specific verse from ur Book ? Can it be Deut ?


May be , Jewish soldiers read Deut a lot & they believe it’s ok to kill children even if their parent are not idol worshippers.

 

[IzakHalevas]

So , u are sure that the way Jews are treating Muslims is approved by the God Almighty ?

It would not be aproved if Hamas wanted peace and condemned violence.

---- if Judaism supports it , then ok , I won’t ask anymore .

If it does not , then I ask to give some verses that tell Jewish soldiers to treat non-Jews kids more humanely.

Judaism teaches to defend yourself. Circumstances vary on how you do that.

So ,u don’t care about Rabbis opinion…….hehe ….. off topic but which Rabbi converted u ? he will be happy to hear that ?

I assume your views come from the fact that Muslims rely to much on there Imam's and to less on what they think is G-d's word.

If u r right & it’s the punishment for us , then I think , it’s better to get punishment in this life rather than receive it on the Last Day as a sinner.

I was angry when I said it and I do not mean to lump all Muslims together, just the bad people.

 

[Malaikah]

I was wondering, who was the last prophet recognised by the Jews?

 

[Malaikah]

I didn't want to take the other thread off topic, so I choose to ask this here:

Of course, but Jewish laws on putting people to death to not exist anymore, because the Jewish courts do not exist anymore. When the Moshiach comes he will reestablish this.

Wait, so Jews who leave Judaism get the death penalty? Am I understanding correct?

Do they also spend eternity in hell?

 

[IzakHalevas]

I didn't want to take the other thread off topic, so I choose to ask this here:

Wait, so Jews who leave Judaism get the death penalty? Am I understanding correct?

Do they also spend eternity in hell?

No people who blasphemied, like cursing G-d's name, or raping an animal in front of 4 witnesses, and then tells the witnesses right before he does it that he does not care what the punishment is, after they warn him would be "judged" and could possibly get the death penalty by the courts. I know, the Jewish legal systemalmost never carried out any executions.

You cannot leave Judaism when you convert properly or are born into it. You are simply a Jew who follows the laws or does not. G-d then judges you based on your situation, who taught you, why you didn;t follow them, etc.

Judaism does not believe in eternal hell except for the really bad people, and we do not know if they are in hell eternely or they just are gone, like bye bye forever. lol.

I was wondering, who was the last prophet recognised by the Jews?

I believe they are Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi

 

[IzakHalevas]

To Grace Seeker: Jsus's logic and teachings are at serious fault in this situation. To "love your enemies" goes against the Tanakh. Do you not believe the Tanakh (Old Testament) to be the word of G-d?

 

[snakelegs]

weren't some of the harsh punishments in the tanakh mitigated by the oral tradition, by making all kinds of stipulations and conditions that made them hard to actually carry it out?
i think somewhere it says in the torah: "do not hate your enemy in your heart."

 

[rebelishaulman]

weren't some of the harsh punishments in the tanakh mitigated by the oral tradition, by making all kinds of stipulations and conditions that made them hard to actually carry it out?
i think somewhere it says in the torah: "do not hate your enemy in your heart."

Well, they did not just create these conditions. These conditions were part of the oral law. There are many laws in the Torah that we would not be able to understand if it was not for the Oral Law.




The תורה שבעל פה (Oral Tradition) is a key part to understanding the laws of the Torah. The written Torah is only a piece of the puzzle that makes up Halacha (Jewish law). For example it says in the Torah:

If the place the L-rd, your G-d, chooses to put His Name there, will be distant from you, you may slaughter of your cattle and of your sheep, which the L-rd has given you, as I have commanded you, and you may eat in your cities, according to every desire of your soul.​

(Deuteronomy 12:21)​

I welcome you to look throughout the entire Torah for the way G-d commanded us to do this. You will not find it. Many commandments are vague and refer to the "way I commanded you", yet he commanded us to do this, in the Oral Tradition. We learn [from here] that there is a commandment regarding slaughtering, how one must slaughter. [Since this commandment is not written in the Torah we deduce that] these are the laws of ritual slaughtering given orally to Moses on [Mount] Sinai. — [Sifrei ; Chul. 28a]

Now back on topic, to capital punishment:

A Sanhedrin that puts a man to death once in seven years is called destructive. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah says: a Sanhedrin that puts a man to death even once in seventy years. Rabbi Akiba and Rabbi Tarfon say: Had we been in the Sanhedrin none would ever have been put to death.
(Mishnah, Makkot 1:10)

Rabbinic law developed a detailed system of checks and balances to prevent the execution of an innocent person, and these were so restrictive as to effectively legislate the penalty out of existence. The law requires that:

• There must have been two witnesses to the crime, and these must conform to a prescribed list of criteria. For example, females and close relatives of the criminal are precluded from being witnesses according to Biblical law, while full-time gamblers are precluded as a matter of Rabbinical law.
• The witnesses must have verbally warned the person that they were liable for the death penalty
• The person must then have acknowledged that he or she was warned, and yet then have gone ahead and committed the sin regardless.
• No individual was allowed to testify against him or herself.

 

[taqi]

WE muslims will make our plc in islam.

To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.
"adalat" we hv the same belief
To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.
we donot speak of god in a impious mannerTo refrain from practicing idolatry. (some Jews say Christians pray to jesus fall in this category.)
only ALLAH is worthy of worship.
To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.
"guna ey kabeera" one of sins thts not forgiven,even afta istagfar(askin 4 forgivness) To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man. (unless self defense, like somone will kill you if you don't.)
Killing of innocent,nope not allowed in islam 2:thumbs_do To refrain from robbing ones fellow man. (no stealing)
yet another act tht is considered as a sin in islam:thumbs_do :thumbs_do To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal..
Cant do tht either,since i wont be halal tht way i guess.
NOW u knw y my jew brother
mybe now we should get along just finekay:

 

[taqi]

WE muslims will make our plc in hevean.***

 

[Grace Seeker]

To Grace Seeker: Jsus's logic and teachings are at serious fault in this situation. To "love your enemies" goes against the Tanakh. Do you not believe the Tanakh (Old Testament) to be the word of G-d?

Well, I've always thought it was. There are times when Jesus would quote from the Tanakh and say, "It is written ____________, but I say unto you ________________." I usually saw him as expanding upon the Tanakh from merely a set of rules to establish an overriding principle. And in a few cases it seems like Jesus was attempting to correct what he perceived as mis-application of the Tanakh by his contempories.

But if you are telling me that the Tanakh and Jesus' teachings actually run in opposition to each other, then I'll stay with Jesus' teaching on this.

I have a hard time believing that when G-d gave Moses the Torah, that he intended Deuteronomy 10:19 to be referring to Jewish converts. I think G-d meant strangers, aliens, non-Jews, and other foreigners who were in their midst. I think the Jews were to look back on their own experience as being outcasts in Egyptian society and remember what that was like, and learn to treat other people better than they had been treated. I think that is the clear intent of that passage. That people would do all sorts of linguist acrobatics to make it say something else saddens me, for I think you sincerey believe what you have been saying that it is about prosyletes and converts. And I don't think that some Christian preacher is going to change your mind on this; I'll not even try. But I also think you are sincerely wrong. After all these years of trying to learn from and connect with the Hebrew portion of the Bible, to learn that this is how modern day Jews read these passages has been a blow to me. The G-d I understand Jesus to have worshipped and taught about, and the one I have learned about in the last few pages of this thread seem to be so different to me. I feel a loss of kinship I once felt for people who share so much of the same sacred history that I do. But it has taken a shock here. At least I am now better informed, and I thank you for that.

 

[rebelishaulman]

Well, I've always thought it was. There are times when Jesus would quote from the Tanakh and say, "It is written ____________, but I say unto you ________________." I usually saw him as expanding upon the Tanakh from merely a set of rules to establish an overriding principle. And in a few cases it seems like Jesus was attempting to correct what he perceived as mis-application of the Tanakh by his contempories.

The Torah says this:

You shall remember what Amalek did to you on the way, when you went out of Egypt, how he happened upon you on the way and cut off all the stragglers at your rear, when you were faint and weary, and he did not fear G-d. [Therefore,] it will be, when the L-rd your G-d grants you respite from all your enemies around [you] in the land which the L-rd, your G-d, gives to you as an inheritance to possess, that you shall obliterate the remembrance of Amalek from beneath the heavens. You shall not forget!
(Deuteronomy 25:17-19)

This passage does not give the impression of "loving your enemy". May I ask you if you believe that the Tanakh is still currently the unchanged word of G-d. We need to get your view on that known, before I can exactly understand your view point. Jesus went further then merely interpreting verses, but changing the meaning, or completely neglecting them.

I have a hard time believing that when God gave Moses the Torah, that he intended Deuteronomy 10:19 to be referring to Jewish converts. I think God meant strangers, aliens, non-Jews, and other foreigners who were in their midst.

Why do you have a hard time believing this? Do you think conversion to Judaism did not occur in the time of Moshe? Do you think issues of what tribe a convert would be in, his inheritance and other things did not have to be addressed?

For example:

<DIV class=TanachPosukText>Exodus 12:48 - And should a proselyte reside with you, he shall make a Passover sacrifice to the L-rd. All his males shall be circumcised, and then he may approach to make it, and he will be like the native of the land, but no uncircumcised male may partake of it.

<DIV class=TanachRa****ext><SPAN class=TanachRa****itle>

 

[rebelishaulman]

I'm sorry I had a huge answer, and some weird thing happened with my post so I will have to re-post the second part of my post:

Exodus says:

12:48 When a proselyte joins you and wants to offer the Passover sacrifice to G-d, every male [in his household] must be circumcised. He may then join in the observance, and be like a native-born [Israelite]. But no uncircumcised man may eat [the sacrifice].
12:49 The same law shall apply both for the native-born [Israelite] and for the proselyte who joins you.'

If the word "Ger" meant a non-Jew in this verse, then the Torah would be saying that Jews and Non-Jews have the same law applied to them. Halacha says that Jews must follow 613 laws, and Non-Jews 7 laws, which is why it is referring to a convert. It is forbidden for a non-Jew to keep the Sabbath for example. So in this case, it is impossible that the Torah is saying that non-Jews must follow the same laws as the Jews.

I have a hard time believing that when God gave Moses the Torah, that he intended Deuteronomy 10:19 to be referring to Jewish converts. I think God meant strangers, aliens, non-Jews, and other foreigners who were in their midst. I think the Jews were to look back on their own experience as being outcasts in Egyptian society and remember what that was like, and learn to treat other people better than they had been treated. I think that is the clear intent of that passage. That people would do all sorts of linguist acrobatics to make it say something else saddens me, for I think you sincerely believe what you have been saying that it is about prosyletes and converts. And I don't think that some Christian preacher is going to change your mind on this; I'll not even try.

You have every right to view it in this light, but I believe it to be a wrong translation of the verse, and Judaism has held this position way before the creation of Christianity. If we said that all the verses referring to converts were referring to non-Jews, then halacha would make no sense. We would have no laws for converts, we would be told that Non-Jews cannot marry High priests although but can marry another Jew, yet it says already that non-Jews cannot marry Jews anyway. So of course it is referring to converts. Our entire Halacha on converts refers to the verses that you believe to be speaking of non-Jews. You have every right to view it how you want but just accept Judaism takes a different stance.

The God I understand Jesus to have worshipped and taught about, and the one I have learned about in the last few pages of this thread seem to be so different to me.

I thought you believed Jesus to be G-d. How could he have worshiped himself then?

feel a loss of kinship I once felt for people who share so much of the same sacred history that I do. But it has taken a shock here. At least I am now better informed, and I thank you for that.

Christianity and Judaism are different religions. I hope you do not view Judaism in a negative light after learning we view verses to mean converts instead of non-Jews. If you do though, then oh well, it certainly would not be the first time a Christian viewed Judaism in a negative light. I remember my grandfather telling me stories of the locals in Russia storming into his town to burn the houses of the "Christ killer", there crime, not being Christian. So hatred and negative views on my religion because of our views on the text is not new to me. I just really hope your "lost feeling towards a people who share so much with you" aren't turned into negative feeling because of the way we have always viewed the Torah.

 

[north_malaysian]

Wow... more and more Jews coming to this forum.... cool!!!!!

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

To any Jew:

Can it be possible that many Jews believe they have monopoly over God’s mercy ?


rebelishaulman:

I hope you do not view Judaism in a negative light after learning we view verses to mean converts instead of non-Jews.

---is it ok to jump in ? :giggling:

It's wonderful to know that ( at least that i understood here ) , some or many Jews believe good Muslims will go to heaven. :smile:


But , i m confused about treating non-Jews , specially the kids.

Is there not a single verse in Torah that we can show to Israeli soldiers ? :uuh:

Many little kids who even don't throw stones are sometimes murdered. What can be done about that regarding Torah ?



Not a single incident is there where Prophet Moses (pbuh ) told soldiers not to kill non-Jews kids i.e. babies ?

.....Judaism teaches to defend yourself. Circumstances vary on how you do that.

----Judaism teaches that good Muslims will go to heaven.

So , i guess , some Jews believe while defending themselves , it's better to send Muslim kids to heaven at a time , so they don't have to suffer in this world anymore kay:

I assume your views come from the fact that Muslims rely to much on there Imam's and to less on what they think is G-d's word.

--huh . Read ur own holy book. U will find how Jews were arrogant & repeatedly disobeyed God.

 

[IzakHalevas]

--huh . Read ur own holy book. U will find how Jews were arrogant & repeatedly disobeyed God.

Yes and they were punished and the people who chose to stay with G-d were rewarded. I choose to stay with G-d.

Is there not a single verse in Torah that we can show to Israeli soldiers ?

Of course there are! Israeli soldiers act like animals some times and they should be punished! I expect nothing less than complete morality from Jewish soldiers. If the hurt someone who did not intend on hurting them they are acting against G-d's ways!

 

[Malaikah]

Yes and they were punished and the people who chose to stay with G-d were rewarded.

Hey, thats really cool. But what I don't get is why is it that when the Quran talks about those Jews who disobeyed God (by working on the Sabbath, for example) and about how they were punished (e.g. turned into pigs/apes), people get offended and call the Quran anti-semitic, even though the same is mentioned in your holy book (though perhaps with out the transformation)?

Could you do me a favour and provide me with some passage from your book as an example of Jews who were punished for disobeying God?

 

[IzakHalevas]

Hey, thats really cool. But what I don't get is why is it that when the Quran talks about those Jews who disobeyed God (by working on the Sabbath, for example) and about how they were punished (e.g. turned into pigs/apes), people get offended and call the Quran anti-semitic, even though the same is mentioned in your holy book (though perhaps with out the transformation)?

Could you do me a favour and provide me with some passage from your book as an example of Jews who were punished for disobeying God?

I'll look into it and get you some when I get back from work. In reality these verses are looke down upon as anti-semetic because so many Islamic preachers call the Jews "apes and pigs" so much, so who are we Jews to say there religion does not preach that?

If I may ask a question, in the Quran the Jews were punished for breaking the Sabbath, so I assume the Quran recongnizes the Sabbath as a huge commandment (1 of the 10 commandments). Why do Muslims not observe it then?

 

[IzakHalevas]

Easy. Quran is the Final Testament. It mentioned that Sabath was for Jews , not for Muslims . After the coming of the Final Holy Book , no one needs to observe it anymore

That makes no sense when the Torah speaks that it is eternal but whatever.

Rav, Lavikor, IzakHalevas, what is your desire in this regard?

I don't care.