Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!

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Then what does Yebamoth 59b actually say?

One interp: It says: It says that in the Mishna Cohen gadol may not marry one who lost her hymen as the result of a blow (the dog for example attacking her)

"It once happened at a village that while a young lady was sweeping the floor there was a wild ferocious dog that attacked her from the rear (intercourse against her will occured during the attack)."

So the discussion is about this women and can she marry a cohen after an attack like this where A woman who had intercourse with a beast (by accident in the dogs case) can she marry a cohen? Some may say yes, and others may say no.
 
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Is this what you are refering to?

Question: Is it true that sixty-nine "weeks" of the Seventy Weeks countdown of Daniel 9 starts in 444 B.C.E. and ends with the death of Jesus (30/33 C.E.)?

Answer: Christian commentators prefer to start the Seventy Weeks countdown with 444 or 445 B.C.E. because it brings their calculations closer to the time period in which Jesus died (30/33 C.E.). A far better starting date is the decree of Cyrus (537 B.C.E) upon which all subsequent grants of approval were based (Isaiah 44:28). A correct reading of the passage and some simple arithmetic dispels any attempt to claim 444 B.C.E. as a starting date and Jesus' death in 30/33 C.E. as a terminus.

First, the seven weeks and the sixty-two weeks are really two separate periods and speak of two separate "anointed" ones. Second, even if we were to count 483 years from 444 B.C.E. we get to the year 38 C.E. Jesus is crucified in the period ranging from 30 to 33 C.E. But, the text of Daniel 9:26 says, "And after the sixty-two weeks an anointed one shall be cut off." This shows that if we use 444 B.C.E. as a starting date the alleged second "anointed one" was "cut off" in the period following the year 38 C.E. (that is, "after the sixty-two weeks"). There would be no connection to anyone "cut off" prior to that year. Thus, there is no reference here to Jesus.

Question: Is the Seventy Weeks countdown of Daniel 9 computed according to a 360-day "prophetic year"?

Answer: There is no "prophetic year" of 360 days alluded to anywhere in the Bible. It is a nineteenth century Christian invention developed through imaginative use of the Genesis flood narrative.

Some post-biblical sectarian literature and the apocryphal books of Jubilees and Enoch advocate a calendar consisting of 364 days, divided into twelve months of thirty days each. At the end of each three-month cycle a thirty-first day was added to the month. But, this is still not a 360-day "prophetic year."

Obviously, the calendar used in the Daniel 9 countdown has nothing to do with the nineteenth century development of a spurious 360-day "prophetic year."

Question: I have noticed that there are many differences between Jewish Bible translations of Daniel 9:25-26 and several different Christian Bible translations. What should be the correct readings of the disputed words and phrases?

Answer:In our study of the different translations we will compare the Hebrew text with that of the King James Version of the Bible. It contains the grossest errors, which are, in whole or in part, duplicated by other Christian versions of the Bible.

First, the King James Version puts a definite article before "Messiah the Prince" (9:25). The original Hebrew text does not read "the Messiah the Prince," but, having no article, it is to be rendered "a mashiach ["anointed one," "messiah"], a prince," i.e., Cyrus (Isaiah 45:1, 13; Ezra 1:1-2).

The word mashiach is nowhere used in the Jewish Scriptures as a proper name, but as a title of authority of a king or a high priest. Therefore, a correct rendering of the original Hebrew should be: "an anointed one, a prince."

Second, the King James Version disregards the Hebrew punctuation. The punctuation mark 'atnach functions as the main pause within a sentence. The 'atnach is the appropriate equivalent of the semicolon in the modern system of punctuation. It thus has the effect of separating the seven weeks from the sixty-two weeks: ". . . until an anointed one, a prince, shall be seven weeks; then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again . . ." (9:25).

By creating a sixty-nine week period, which is not divided into two separate periods of seven weeks and sixty-two weeks respectively, Christians reach an incorrect conclusion, i.e., that the Messiah will come 483 years after the destruction of the First Temple.

Some Christians claim that there is something called a "prophetic year" of 360 days, thus shortening the interval between the beginning of the 483 years which they claim began in 444 B.C.E., and the date of the crucifixion of Jesus. They do this in order to make the dates coincide, but the claim of a "prophetic year" is without any scriptural foundation.

Third, the King James Version omits the definite article in Daniel 9:26, which should read: "And after the threescore and two weeks. . . ." By treating the sixty-two weeks as a distinct period, this verse, in the original Hebrew, shows that the sixty-two weeks mentioned in verse 25 are correctly separated from the seven weeks by the 'atnach. Hence, two anointed ones are spoken of in this chapter, one of whom comes after seven weeks (Cyrus), and the other after a further period of sixty-two weeks (Alexander Yannai).

Fourth, the words v'ayn lo (9:26) are incorrectly translated by the King James Version as "but not for himself." They should be translated as "he has nothing" or "he shall have nothing." There are Christian commentators who maintain this phrase has both meanings, but that claim cannot be supported grammatically.
 
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The Torah is not anti-christian because there was no christianity before the Torah. The Talmud is what you are refering to. If you have a grip on history, you would find that thousands of little genocides and massacres have been commited against the Jews by Christians, so who hates who? When did the Jews kill thousands of Christians? Christianity seems to be much more anti-Jewish than Judaism is anti-Christian.

Have mercy on me. I'm a white, male, American Christian. I feel so guilty for enslaving black people, oppressing women, imperialistically exploiting the world, and committing genocide on the Jews. Basically I'm a piece of trash. Can't think of one thing people like me have ever done right, except, oh yeah, STOP HITLER!

Seriously, I know there is a mixed baggaged past when it comes to the actions of Christians over the centuries. But, I can't think of any group whose hands clean. Isn't what is more important how we try to treat each other now?
 
Have mercy on me. I'm a white, male, American Christian. I feel so guilty for enslaving black people, oppressing women, imperialistically exploiting the world, and committing genocide on the Jews. Basically I'm a piece of trash. Can't think of one thing people like me have ever done right, except, oh yeah, STOP HITLER!

Seriously, I know there is a mixed baggaged past when it comes to the actions of Christians over the centuries. But, I can't think of any group whose hands clean. Isn't what is more important how we try to treat each other now?

I'm not trying to put you down, but I am explaining that in the Talmud you may find a few harsh verses against Christians, but these verses are specifically towards Christians who were herding them into ghetto's and making them pay a tax to pray, while at the same time continuisly raiding there town destroying houses.
 
Have mercy on me. I'm a white, male, American Christian. I feel so guilty for enslaving black people, oppressing women, imperialistically exploiting the world, and committing genocide on the Jews. Basically I'm a piece of trash. Can't think of one thing people like me have ever done right, except, oh yeah, STOP HITLER!

Seriously, I know there is a mixed baggaged past when it comes to the actions of Christians over the centuries. But, I can't think of any group whose hands clean. Isn't what is more important how we try to treat each other now?

lol, "opressing" women? That is the last thing Christianity leads the world in... :exhausted
 
lol, "opressing" women? That is the last thing Christianity leads the world in... :exhausted

hah i hate to say this, but in all honesty i think the only religion that treats women equally is the baha'i faith and buddhism. all other religions seem to have opression of women here and there.

thankfully judaism has still been pretty women friendly.. they even have women rabbi's here in america (at reform temples.. i know there's a synagogue here that has a girl rabbi.)
 
hah i hate to say this, but in all honesty i think the only religion that treats women equally is the baha'i faith and buddhism. all other religions seem to have opression of women here and there.

thankfully judaism has still been pretty women friendly.. they even have women rabbi's here in america (at reform temples.. i know there's a synagogue here that has a girl rabbi.)

Sometimes I ask my sister whether she felt oppressed whenever she wants to go out shopping she has to don her hijabs and what not, I get this hard stare from her. Then she replied, "Don't ask stupid questions."

I met this girl in campus where in the beginning she didn't wear hijaab and was used to wearing make ups and sexy clothing. Then suddenly she changed. She lost the make up, and starts to wear clothes that hide much of her physical features, but she looks rather pure and innocent once again. Like a woman who got her virgin back. I asked her does she feel oppressed wearing this way and she replied she felt rather oppressed having to keep up with all th trends in clothing and the make up taking much of her time when she'd rather be doing useful things like studying or work at her own store and still remain happy and pretty.
 
Iam sure in this 100 hundred page long thread this question must have been raised, if not then here it is.

In the jewish religion they are given the prophecy that the jews must wait for the mesia (spelling?). My question how long are the jews going to wait it has been two thousand years.

What is the jewish prespective on this?
 
hah i hate to say this, but in all honesty i think the only religion that treats women equally is the baha'i faith and buddhism. all other religions seem to have opression of women here and there.

thankfully judaism has still been pretty women friendly.. they even have women rabbi's here in america (at reform temples.. i know there's a synagogue here that has a girl rabbi.)

Buddhism? Not all sects allowed women to be bhikkus (monks)... And I never heard a female dalai lama yet...
 
hah i hate to say this, but in all honesty i think the only religion that treats women equally is the baha'i faith and buddhism. all other religions seem to have opression of women here and there.

thankfully judaism has still been pretty women friendly.. they even have women rabbi's here in america (at reform temples.. i know there's a synagogue here that has a girl rabbi.)

Well traditional Judaism does not believe in women Rabbi's because we believe that women and men are equal but have different roles in life.

Sometimes I ask my sister whether she felt oppressed whenever she wants to go out shopping she has to don her hijabs and what not, I get this hard stare from her. Then she replied, "Don't ask stupid questions."

I met this girl in campus where in the beginning she didn't wear hijaab and was used to wearing make ups and sexy clothing. Then suddenly she changed. She lost the make up, and starts to wear clothes that hide much of her physical features, but she looks rather pure and innocent once again. Like a woman who got her virgin back. I asked her does she feel oppressed wearing this way and she replied she felt rather oppressed having to keep up with all th trends in clothing and the make up taking much of her time when she'd rather be doing useful things like studying or work at her own store and still remain happy and pretty.

Nice post.

Iam sure in this 100 hundred page long thread this question must have been raised, if not then here it is.

In the jewish religion they are given the prophecy that the jews must wait for the mesia (spelling?). My question how long are the jews going to wait it has been two thousand years.

What is the jewish prespective on this?

The Moshiach will come when G-d wills it. We are willing to wait much longer. Remember, that the Moshiach must fufill every prophecy, incuding world peace. if he is killed (dies) in the process it is written that he was sent to test the masses.

Buddhism? Not all sects allowed women to be bhikkus (monks)... And I never heard a female dalai lama yet...

I am not sure if Budhists believe that someone may be reincarnated as the opposite sex. It would be a good question for a Budhist, but I am not sure if one can be reincarntated according to Budhism from male to female. If not, that explains why there will not be a female Dalai lama.
 
The Moshiach will come when G-d wills it. We are willing to wait much longer. Remember, that the Moshiach must fufill every prophecy, incuding world peace. if he is killed (dies) in the process it is written that he was sent to test the masses.
doesn't the tanakh say that the authorities will kill the messiah? i could have sworn i saw a verse on that.

anyways can you show me a verse that says that if the messiah is killed in the process he was sent as a test?
 
doesn't the tanakh say that the authorities will kill the messiah? i could have sworn i saw a verse on that.

No. I have never heard of such a thing, if it says anything of that sort I would love to see the verse.

anyways can you show me a verse that says that if the messiah is killed in the process he was sent as a test?

"But if he did not suceed in all this or was killed/died, he is definitly not the Moshiach promised in the Torah... and G-d only appointed him in order to test the masses.
(Mishneh Torah, Hilchos Melachim 11:4)
 
"But if he did not suceed in all this or was killed/died, he is definitly not the Moshiach promised in the Torah... and G-d only appointed him in order to test the masses.
(Mishneh Torah, Hilchos Melachim 11:4)

I don't recognize this as being from the Tanakh. Are verses like these understood to be on par with the Tanakh as G-d's word?
 
isaiah 53.
http://www.chaim.org/isaiah53.htm


2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.


another site that talks about isaiah 53 and other verses like it...http://www.isaiah53.net/
 
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I don't recognize this as being from the Tanakh. Are verses like these understood to be on par with the Tanakh as G-d's word?

The Mishneh Torah (משנה תורה), subtitled Yad ha-Chazaka (יד החזקה), is a code of Jewish law by one of the most important Jewish authorities.

isaiah 53.

Here are some responses:


The one prooftext in the Christian arsenal that they are most confident will turn any Jew to Christianity is the 53rd chapter of Isaiah. The prophet speaks of someone called the Lord’s "servant," one who is characterized as one who suffers.

The reality is that this passage can indeed be construed as messianic, but it does not speak of the Messiah, as Christians want it to be. Indeed, if you go into Christian chat rooms, you’ll find people with handles like "Servant" and "Isaiah53." This chapter is speaking about the nation of Israel. The fact of the matter is, some Christians agree with the Jews about the subject of Isaiah 53, as we shall see in Part III.

Did Isaiah Identify the Servant?
Numerous times throughout the Book of Isaiah the servant is called by name. The following is a sampling:
Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. [9] [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away. (KJV)

[44:1] Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: [2] Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. (KJV)

[44:21] Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou [art] my servant: I have formed thee; thou [art] my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. (KJV)

[45:4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. (KJV)

[49:3] And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. (KJV)​
So, we see that the identity of G-d’s servant is plainly evident.
The chapter divisions did not exist until about four hundred years ago. Therefore, it’s important to examine this chapter in its context, and not just cut off the page, all by itself.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. [2] Shake thyself from the dust; arise, [and] sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion. [3] For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money. [4] For thus saith the Lord G-D, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. [5] Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day [is] blasphemed. [6] Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore [they shall know] in that day that I [am] he that doth speak: behold, [it is] I. [7] How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy G-d reigneth! [8] Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion. [9] Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem. [10] The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our G-d. [11] Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean [thing]; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD. [12] For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the G-d of Israel [will be] your reward. [13] Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. [14] As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: [15] So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for [that] which had not been told them shall they see; and [that] which they had not heard shall they consider. (KJV)​
Take this chapter all by itself, and it's fairly obvious that it speaks of Zion, of the nation of Israel. This portion of scripture sets the stage for chapter 53.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? [2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of G-d, and afflicted. [5] But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [12] Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (KJV)​
Now, according to Christians, the topic of Isaiah 52 is temporarily suspended from the nation of Israel to then speak exclusively about the Messiah. Before we get into the in-depth issues of mistranslation, there are a couple of things that need to be addressed.
1) This chapter of Isaiah makes no mention of the Messiah himself. We know how to identify the future king, because he's called the king, the branch of Jesse, or is referred to as David himself. The reason why Christians cling to this chapter so dearly as proof that the Messiah is to suffer is because it is one of those very few places where they can attempt to do so. The actual breadth of Messianic prophecy is quite exhaustive, and you don't find the notion of a king suffering in them, but you have this chapter, which can be twisted to that end.

2) There is a great deal of circular reasoning involved here. People start with Jesus being the Messiah, Jesus suffered, Isaiah 53 is about one who suffers, so Isaiah 53 must be about the Messiah!
Now, a breakdown of the verses themselves, in Part II that follows, or skip to Part III.


Part II: http://www.messiahtruth.com/isai53b.html

The Veil of Lies

Now that you’ve seen the analysis and breakdown of what Isaiah 53 was truly about, let's see how Christians respond to this. Not all Christians will tell these tall tales, and I think I need to make that disclaimer from the beginning. However, the evangelical community still clings to this portion of scripture for dear life and is willing to tell some rather offensive lies to protect it.
Israel? Didn’t You Hear About How Rashi Made That One Up?

This is a rather well-worn argument is that the Jewish view of Isaiah 53 had always been about the Messiah in particular, but Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo ben Yitzchak, the greatest Medieval Torah and Talmud commentator), who was completely opposed to Christian interpretations of the Bible, created a new interpretation of Isaiah 53. This is believed to have been fabricated by an apologist of the nineteenth century. Jews had never interpreted Isaiah 53 as being about a suffering Messiah. If it was, then Christians must think Peter was a foolish fellow, since he obviously must have not been learned the Tanach when he displayed astonishment after Jesus foretold that he would die.

Who tells this lie? Evangelical Christians tell this lie. Jews for Jesus tells this lie. The Chosen People Ministries tells this lie. All it takes is one lie of this nature for you to be proven untrustworthy. They tell these lies in spades. Numerous tall tales of this sort are told, trying to create the picture that Jesus was in the beliefs of the rabbis, and then a large quantity of quotes, sometimes taken out of context, other times fabricated, are presented, and the evangelist will say, "Don’t you see? The rabbis were saying this all along!" These are the same evangelicals who will also denounce the views of the rabbis when they prove an inconvenience. There wasn’t exactly a huge movement among Jews to jump into baptism pools in the first millenium of the Common Era. One would think that if it was made up by Rashi, then this would not have been the case. Instead, any examination of a history text will show that Christians persecuted Jews during the first thousand years of Christianity (and afterward!), and that the Jews resisted Christianity, even at the expense of their lives.

The fact of the matter is that this lie can be proven such by relying on Christian texts. In the third century, the early church father Origen wrote a volume entitled Contra Celsum, a criticism of a pagan scholar who spoke against Christianity. Origen told of a time when he had approached a group of Jews, and tried using Isaiah 53 as a tool aimed at evengelizing them. "Those whom the Jews regarded as learned" explained to Origen the Jewish interpretation of the fourth Servant Song, and it took place nearly a thousand years before Rashi lived. For proof, see this Catholic website, with Contra Celsum translated online, chapters 54 and 55.

There are also other references, such as the Talmud, which explain the Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53, which date back long before Rashi as well, but you need only present one proof in this case to prove that Christian missionaries lie about this, and the irrational lengths to which they will go to defend their untenable views.
Don’t You Know They’re Hiding it from the Haftarah?

First, let us establish what the Haftarah is. Every Sabbath the Jews read from the Torah. Less than two hundred years prior to the beginning of the Common Era, the Greeks ruled over the Jews, and had forbidden the reading of Torah. To the Jews, whose lives revolve around the sacred Law, this presented a terrible dilemma. However, they made due by reading portions from the Prophets, which either had a message that was similar in tone with the week’s normal Torah reading, or had the tone of a current annual holiday. An important point is that the Jews do not read the entire Bible on a yearly schedule. Only the Torah is completely read each year. The Haftarah makes up less than 10% of the entire Bible. Isaiah 53 was not chosen to be part of the Haftarah because it lacked a theme that matched a holiday or weekly Torah reading. After the Torah was allowed to be read once again, the Jews continued the Haftarah reading, and it remains a tradition to this day. Most compelling in arguing that the Jews are hiding Isaiah 53 from the Haftarah is that the Haftarah is mentioned in the New Testament!

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, [Ye] men [and] brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (KJV)​
After reading "the law and the prophets." The law is the Torah, and the prophets make up the Haftarah. What is the claim made by evangelicals that the Jews are hiding something in excluding Isaiah 53 from the Haftarah? It’s a lie.
Here’s a New Concept!

To make this issue all the more interesting, some Christian scholars agree with the Jewish interpretation! Go to your local bookstore and find the Bibles. One will find a pleasant surprise at finding the Revised Standard Version Oxford Study Edition Bible, and read the commentary it listed for Isaiah 53. RSV tells us that Isaiah 53 is about national Israel. New Revised Standard Version and New English Bible echo this analysis.

So, after these three short analyses, one must ask the question: how soon until the evangelical community sees that the world is not flat?
 
A. PRELIMINARY ISSUES
Before engaging in an examination of Isaiah 53 itself, some preliminary issues must be considered. First is the issue of circular reasoning. Even if we interpret the chapter as the Christians do (forgetting for a minute the mistranslations and distortions of context which will be noted below), the most that could be said is this: Isaiah 53 is about someone who dies for the sins of others. People may have seen Jesus die, but did anyone see him die as an atonement for the sins of others? Of course not; this is simply the meaning which the New Testament gives to his death. Only if you already accept the New Testament teaching that his death had a non-visible, spiritual significance can you than go back to Isaiah and say, "see - the Prophet predicted what I already believe." Isaiah 53, then, is in reality no "proof" at all, but rather a contrived confirmation for someone who has already chosen Christianity.

Second (and consistent with all Jewish teaching at the time), Jesus' own disciples didn't view Isaiah 53 as a messianic prophecy. For example, after Peter identifies Jesus as the Messiah (Matt. 16:16), he is informed that Jesus will be killed (Matt. 16:21). His response: "God forbid it, lord! This shall never happen to you" (Matt. 16:22). See, also, Mk. 9:31-32; Mk. 16:10-11; Jn. 20:9. Even Jesus didn't see Isaiah 53 as crucial to his messianic claims - why else did he call the Jews children of the devil for not believing in him before the alleged resurrection (Jn. 8:39-47)? And why did he later request that God "remove this cup from me" (Mk. 14:36) - didn't he know that a "removal of the cup" would violate the gentile understanding of Isaiah 53?

And third, even if we accept the gentile Christian interpretation of Isaiah 53, where is it indicated (either in Isaiah 53 or anywhere else in our Jewish Scriptures) that you must believe in this "Messiah" to get the benefits?

B. CONTEXT
Since any portion of Scripture is only understood properly when viewed in the context of God's revelation as a whole, some additional study will be helpful before you "tackle" Isaiah 53.

Look at the setting in which Isaiah 53 occurs. Earlier on in Isaiah, God had predicted exile and calamity for the Jewish people. Chapter 53, however, occurs in the midst of Isaiah's "Messages of Consolation", which tell of the restoration of Israel to a position of prominence and a vindication of their status as God's chosen people. In chapter 52, for example, Israel is described as "oppressed without cause" (v.4) and "taken away" (v.5), yet God promises a brighter future ahead, one in which Israel will again prosper and be redeemed in the sight of all the nations (v.1-3, 8-12).

Chapter 54 further elaborates upon the redemption which awaits the nation of Israel. Following immediately after chapter 53's promise of a reward for God's servant in return for all of its suffering (53:10-12), chapter 54 describes an unequivocally joyous fate for the Jewish people. Speaking clearly of the Jewish people and their exalted status (even according to all Christian commentaries), chapter 54 ends as follows: "`This is the heritage of the servants of the L-rd and their vindication is from Me,' declares the L-rd."

C. ISAIAH 53
In the original Hebrew texts, there are no chapter divisions, and Jew and Christian alike agree that chapter 53 is actually a continuation of the prophecy which begins at 52:13. Accordingly, our analysis must begin at that verse.

52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - the Messiah is not. Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God, as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54. ALSO: Given the Christian view that Jesus is God, is God His own servant?

52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we have heard?" Quite clearly, the nations and their kings will be amazed at what happens to the "servant of the L-rd," and they will say "who would believe what we have heard?". 52:15 tells us explicitly that it is the nations of the world, the gentiles, who are doing the talking in Isaiah 53. See, also, Micah 7:12-17, which speaks of the nations' astonishment when the Jewish people again blossom in the Messianic age.

53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the L-rd been revealed?" In Isaiah, and throughout our Scriptures, God's "arm" refers to the physical redemption of the Jewish people from the oppression of other nations (see, e.g., Isa. 52:8-12; Isa. 63:12; Deut. 4:34; Deut. 7:19; Ps. 44:3).

53:3 "Despised and rejected of men." While this is clearly applicable to Israel (see Isa. 60:15; Ps. 44:13-14), it cannot be reconciled with the New Testament account of Jesus, a man who was supposedly "praised by all" (Lk. 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25), who would later acclaim him as a prophet upon his triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt. 21:9-11). Even as he was taken to be crucified, a multitude bemoaned his fate (Lk. 23:27). Jesus had to be taken by stealth, as the rulers feared "a riot of the people" (Mk. 14:1-2).

53:3 "A man of pains and acquainted with disease." Israel's adversities are frequently likened to sickness - see, e.g., Isa. 1:5-6; Jer. 10:19; Jer 30:12.

53:4 "Surely our diseases he carried and our pains he bore." In Matt. 8:17, this is correctly translated, and said to be literally (not spiritually) fulfilled in Jesus' healing of the sick, a reading inconsistent with the Christian mistranslation of 53:4 itself.

53:4 "Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of G- D and afflicted." See Jer. 30:17 - of God's servant Israel (30:10), it is said by the nations, "It is Zion; no one cares for her."

53:5 "But he was wounded from (NOTE: not for) our transgressions, he was crushed from (AGAIN: not for) our iniquities." Whereas the nations had thought the Servant (Israel) was undergoing Divine retribution for its sins (53:4), they now realize that the Servant's sufferings stemmed from their actions and sinfulness. This theme is further developed throughout our Jewish Scriptures - see, e.g., Jer. 50:7; Jer. 10:25. ALSO: Note that the Messiah "shall not fail nor be crushed till he has set the right in the earth" (Isa. 42:4).

53:7 "He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth. Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so he did not open his mouth." Note that in the prior chapter (Isa. 52), Israel is said to have been oppressed and taken away without cause (52:4-5). A similar theme is developed in Psalm 44, wherein King David speaks of Israel's faithfulness even in the face of gentile oppression (44:17- 18) and describes Israel as "sheep to be slaughtered" in the midst of the unfaithful gentile nations (44:22,11).

Regarding the claim that Jesus "did not open his mouth" when faced with oppression and affliction, see Matt. 27:46, Jn. 18:23, 36-37.

53:8 "From dominion and judgement he was taken away." Note the correct translation of the Hebrew. The Christians are forced to mistranslate, since - by Jesus' own testimony - he never had any rights to rulership or judgement, at least not on the "first coming." See, e.g., Jn. 3:17; Jn. 8:15; Jn. 12:47; Jn. 18:36.

53:8 "He was cut off out of the land of the living."

53:9 "His grave was assigned with wicked men." See Ez. 37:11-14, wherein Israelis described as "cut off" and God promises to open its "graves" and bring Israel back into its own land. Other examples of figurative deaths include Ex. 10:17; 2 Sam. 9:8; 2 Sam. 16:9.

53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them." Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear, to anyone familiar with Biblical Hebrew, that the oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual. The Hebrew word "lamoh", when used in our Scriptures, always means "to them" never "to him" and may be found, for example, in Psalm 99:7 - "They kept his testimonies, and the statute that He gave to them."

53:9 "And with the rich in his deaths." Perhaps King James should have changed the original Hebrew, which again makes clear that we are dealing with a collective Servant, i.e., Israel, which will "come to life" when the exile ends (Ez. 37:14).

53:9 "He had done no violence." See Matt. 21:12; Mk. 11:15-16; Lk. 19:45; Lk. 19:27; Matt. 10:34 and Lk. 12:51; then judge for yourself whether this passage is truly consistent with the New Testament account of Jesus.

53:10 "He shall see his seed." The Hebrew word for "seed", used in this verse, always refers to physical descendants in our Jewish Scriptures. See, e.g., Gen. 12:7; Gen. 15:13; Gen. 46:6; Ex. 28:43. A different word, generally translated as "sons", is used to refer to spiritual descendants (see Deut. 14:1, e.g.).

53:10 "He will prolong his days." Not only did Jesus die young, but how could the days be prolonged of someone who is alleged to be God?

53:11 "With his knowledge the righteous one, my Servant, will cause many to be just." Note again the correct translation: the Servant will cause many to be just, he will not "justify the many." The Jewish mission is to serve as a "light to the nations" which will ultimately lead the world to a knowledge of the one true God, this both by example (Deut. 4:5-8; Zech. 8:23) and by instructing the nations in God's Law (Isa. 2:3-4; Micah 4:2-3).

53:12 "Therefore, I will divide a portion to him with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty." If Jesus is God, does the idea of reward have any meaning? Is it not rather the Jewish people - who righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to God (Ps. 44) - who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?
 
The Mishneh Torah (משנה תורה), subtitled Yad ha-Chazaka (יד החזקה), is a code of Jewish law by one of the most important Jewish authorities.

Thank you for the information that it is important. But you didn't really answer my question. Relative to the Tanakh, how important is it? Is it on par with the Tanakh?
 
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