Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!

[lavikor201]

here's a question.. why is it sort of hard for someone to convert to judaism?

Because Judaism and following the Torah are only required of the people who actually saw the miracles and their wonders when G-d gave us the Torah, or if someone in your family converted then that family becomes responsible for following Torah.

A good point made a few posts ago:

The scriptures lavikor, only call on Israel who witnessed G-d's deeds to follow and keep his laws. No other nation is threatened or blamed for not accepting the Torah/Law; they are not obligated to, for they did not witness the miracles which prove the truth of the Torah/Law. Moses did not demand that the children of Israel should believe in him, for none of them ever disputed the truth of the law, which they had witnessed together with him. But the books of Islam and Christianity vehemently curse everyone in the world who disbelieves them although they did not demonstrate their proofs to the whole world.

I agree with the statement that the only people who should be responsible for following Torah are Jews since G-d showed the proofs and wonders to the Jewish people and commanded them to pass it down from generation to generation (hebrew: ledor vador). Other books that claim the whole world must follow them although G-d di not show any proof to the whole world, only to the one guy who claims that you should believe him. Yes, that one guy may perform a few miracles, but the Torah says false prophets can perform miracles. The real proof is G-d at Mt. Sinai spoke and all the Jewish people heard G-d. We cannot even comprehend how he sounded or if any noise even occured but all just heard it in there head, but we know they heard G-d. Christianity and Islam both support that last statement, and if G-d wishes to create a religion, would he tell all about it, or would be tell one guy and expect the whole world to believe him.

Judaism's restrictions on conversion are for the gentiles own benefit if they do not practice Judaism after they convert. So a dedicated person, is what you must be. Orthodox conversions are the only ones recongnized. But anyway, you can convert if you want, but it will take studying and dedication on the part of the potential convert.

 

[Skywalker]

i have been on muslim forums where jews were constantly being harassed, and the admins did nothing about it. they also were encouraging death to homosexuals, and to christians, and this and that.

That's sad to hear. Death to Christians? That's insane. I've been on this forum for a little while now, and although the people here might seem more "liberal", I see them as better educated, and through this education they look at things more tolerably and hopefully more Islamically.

 

[strider]

lavikor201,

Is it true that orthodox Jewish women shave their heads?

 

[north_malaysian]

lavikor201,

Is it true that orthodox Jewish women shave their heads?

Huhh?????

I think they couldnt answer your question as they're observing Sabbath.

 

[north_malaysian]

That is only because the Muslims in this board are rather educated and tolerant. The same cannot be said about ordinary Muslims in the ME.

Yeah... it's kinda sad.... not only in the ME but the whole world.....

I've learnt alot about Judaism in this forum. The best thing of it .. it the Jews teaching us to understand their religion.... in a Muslim forum.

I cant get this kind of education in Malaysia.....

For all Jews people here .... "Toda"


P/S: Lavikor201, how about your Hebrew thread? You should revive it back..... I want to learn Hebrew phrases...

 

[moujahid]

Lavikor,

InshaAllah it is time for you to say the Shahada and enter into Islam. I invite you to bring true faith in Allah. Enough of fooling around brother.
Islam is the only way to Paradise man. Moses, peace be upon him, was a true believer and so are Muslims. He belongs to us more than the yahood.

Laa ilaaha illAllah Muhammadan RasoolAllah

 

[Skywalker]

Brother moujahid, I think lavikor has spent enough time on this forum to know that he and all others always have an open invitation to become Muslims and don't need to be reminded.

I think that telling him that "it's time to say the Shahada" is not the most attractive way of giving da3wah, if that was your intent. Personally, that would have the exact opposite effect on me.

Also, lavikor's participation in this forum, from what I've seen thus far, can hardly be called "fooling around". By creating this thread and participating in many others, he has provided us Muslims with a lot of knowledge about Judaism that we couldn't hope to get anywhere else, while he is, hopefully, attaining the same amount of knowledge for himself about Islam. This is how you achieve tolerance and peace. [quick thread promo]I also hope to see this kind of participation in the solution to Israel thread, which could also be a small but very positive step in achieving peace on a larger scale.[/quick thread promo]

I admire your will to spread Islam, but in my opinion there are better ways of giving da3wah. Just as he presents his religion truthfully here, you present ours truthfully here and in other places as well. Also try to be the best Muslim you can be, let people see you for what you are, let them admire you for your religion, and then if Allah guides them, let them come to you to ask you about Islam. Allah knows best anyway.

 

[snakelegs]

excellent post, skywalker!

 

[lavikor201]

lavikor201,

Is it true that orthodox Jewish women shave their heads?

They cover their hair - not shave. However, there are some minor sects where some women will shave their hair before there wedding, and I am not sure the exact details about this custom, nor is it very wide spread at all.

Lavikor,

InshaAllah it is time for you to say the Shahada and enter into Islam. I invite you to bring true faith in Allah. Enough of fooling around brother.
Islam is the only way to Paradise man. Moses, peace be upon him, was a true believer and so are Muslims. He belongs to us more than the yahood.

Laa ilaaha illAllah Muhammadan RasoolAllah

Well I doubt I am fooling around at all. My diatary restrictions among many others are actually more stringent than yours in Islam. I also object to you saying that Moshe Rabeinu belongs to you more than the Jewish people, since Islam admits that Moses was part of the children of Israel and therefore is a genetic member of our people, and also, we deny that the Torah is anything but G-d's word, and we say that Mohammad was not a prophet, therefore, we believe that Judaism before your arrogant claim that our great sages corrupted it, which is impossible under my belief, was absolutly nothing like Islam and if Moses was here right now, he would be asking "Do you observe the Sabbath like I did?", "Do you seperate all meat and milk like I did?", "Did you lay tefillin like I did." and you would respond... No, I assume. And before you say this was all made up from our "corrupted" scriptures, I would look into what the Quran says about the Sabbath and what happned to Jews who did not follow it (yet I am not sure if it is refering to those jews or jews in general) but either way, since men were turned into apes for breaking Shabbat, why do you Muslims not follow it?

I might also say that I do not fool around with my beard either.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1056/melavite9.png

 

[lavikor201]

Are Jewish women allowed to date and engage in premarital sex before marriage?

As you may know, statistics shows that 95% of Americans engage in premarital sex.

No. According to Jewish law, Jewish women may not have pre-marital sex.

Shidduch (or shiduch) (Hebrew: שידוך, pl. shid[d]uchim שידוכים) means a "[a] match" between a man and a woman, as well as the system of introducing eligible and marriageable singles to each other in Orthodox Jewish communities.

The process of shidduchim is the subject of some criticism, mainly for being "unromantic" and too closely resembling the practice of arranged marriages. However, this is not really the case as there is no requirement in the Shidduch process to marry the person being dated. It is simply an arranged date (a process which can go on in very orthodox communities a few weeks to more modern orthodox communities which last a month or more), through which romance can blossom, and most certainly not an arranged marriage. It should be noted that those using this matchmaking process, have a far lower divorce rate than the US standard. The numbers given are under 6%. (I think the US is at 50% right now.)

 

[Skywalker]

Well I doubt I am fooling around at all. My diatary restrictions among many others are actually more stringent than yours in Islam. I also object to you saying that Moshe Rabeinu belongs to you more than the Jewish people, since Islam admits that Moses was part of the children of Israel and therefore is a genetic member of our people, and also, we deny that the Torah is anything but G-d's word, and we say that Mohammad was not a prophet, therefore, we believe that Judaism before your arrogant claim that our great sages corrupted it, which is impossible under my belief, was absolutly nothing like Islam and if Moses was here right now, he would be asking "Do you observe the Sabbath like I did?", "Do you seperate all meat and milk like I did?", "Did you lay tefillin like I did." and you would respond... No, I assume. And before you say this was all made up from our "corrupted" scriptures, I would look into what the Quran says about the Sabbath and what happned to Jews who did not follow it (yet I am not sure if it is refering to those jews or jews in general) but either way, since men were turned into apes for breaking Sabbath, why do you Muslims not follow it?

C'mon guys, let's stop with the "my religion is better than yours" talk because we all know from experience where that leads to, and can quickly ruin a perfectly decent thread.

On a side note, lavikor could you give us a little more insight on why you think Muslims should observe the Sabbath, possibly with scriptual references?

As you may know, statistics shows that 95% of Americans engage in premarital sex.

Whoa!! That's a huge number, homie. Where did u find that?? If that's accurate (which I highly doubt it is), it's then plainly evident why Americans can't stand the thought of Sharia society. Phil, please give me your source for that.

No. According to Jewish law, Jewish women may not have pre-marital sex.

I think this is the main obstacle preventing secular society from accepting living under Sharia or Torah law. Lavikor, from your experience, do you think the majority of Israelis would accept living under strict Torah law if it was implemented in Israel, because the feeling I get from what people are saying about this is that the vast majority of Israelis are secular while only a few stick to actual Jewish values.

 

[lavikor201]

On a side note, lavikor could you give us a little more insight on why you think Muslims should observe the Sabbath, possibly with scriptual references?

Oh they should not. The Sabbath is a Jewish privledge that a non-Jew may not follow until he converts. I was making a point that Moses followed all these things, yet Muslims do not, so why is Mses closer to Islam than Judaism as he suggests?

I believe Islam is a valid religion of the seven laws however.

I think this is the main obstacle preventing secular society from accepting living under Sharia or Torah law. Lavikor, from your experience, do you think the majority of Israelis would accept living under strict Torah law if it was implemented in Israel, because the feeling I get from what people are saying about this is that the vast majority of Israelis are secular while only a few stick to actual Jewish values.

Well it is about 70% secular - 30% Traditional however, the traditional are averaging 5-7 babies a family and the secular 1-2 babies, so how long with this last?

 

[Woodrow]

Please keep this thread on topic. the purpose of this thread is not to debate, but to provide answers to questions any of us may have.

Please do not use this thread for debates make a new thread to debate what you disagree with.

 

[Hemoo]

i just wanted to mention that muslims do agree that

all the first jews which followed the message of prophet moses (peace be upon him), those jews was a real muslims because they obeyed Allah and his messenger .that is what islam means ,it means to surrender to the commands of your creator.

but we can't say the same thing about the current jews nor the current christians, simply because they don't obey Allah commands and they don't believe in the last messenger that Allah has sent.

and as lavikor said "I do not fool around with my beard either"

me too , i have a beard and i don't cut anything from it and i know that this is what all the prophets used to do.

 

[lavikor201]

"A gentile who fulfills his laws is like a [Jewish] high priest."
(Midrash Sifra, Acharei Mot 9:13)

 

[King David]

Lavikor do you havethe answere to my question?

 

[Abu Zakariya]

lavikor

We don't observe Shabbat because it isn't part of the Shari'ah of the Ummah of Muhammad (sall Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam). And the specific Jews that didn't follows the Shabbat rules (which was part of their Shari'ah) were turned into apes and pigs. Not Jews in general, obviously.

 

[King David]

lavikor

We don't observe Shabbat because it isn't part of the Shari'ah of the Ummah of Muhammad (sall Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam). And the specific Jews that didn't follows the Shabbat rules (which was part of their Shari'ah) were turned into apes and pigs. Not Jews in general, obviously.

So would this mean that the Jews still have to have different laws than The Gentiles. Would this mean that A Jew Is a Muslim(Submitter). Could it be that the Quran is the Nohadite(Gentile that submits) book of Law? Given through the Ishmaelites to spread those rules through the world. Could it be that you got this because we werent doing it and that is why we were send to exile? But could it be that today we are willing to explain you those laws if you would only ask? Could it be that you arent interpretiing the Qur'an in the proper way because today you reject the Tanach(Torah Prophets Scriptures? That it is just like watching the last movie of a sequel?

"We sent not any before thee except men to whom we revealed: Question the People of the Remembrance [Children fo Israel], if it should be that you do not know -- with the clear signs, and the Psalms, and We have sent down to thee Remembrance [Qur'an] that thou [Muslims] mayest make clear to mankind what was sent down to them [Israelites]" [Qur'an, "The Bee", chapter 16:45].


"The Qur'an could not have been forged apart from G-d, but it is a confirmation of what was before it, and a distinguishing of the Book [Tanach] wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being" (Qur'an, "Jonah", chapter 10:38. Also see "The Table", chapter 5:52; "Sand Dunes", chapter 46:11 "The Cow", chapter 2:172. Additional Qur'anic acceptance of the Tanach is given in "Night Journey", chapter 17:3; "Prostration", chapter 32:23; "The Believer", chapter 23:56. These references to "the Book" always refer to the Tanach in its original Hebrew, not to translations which are often unreliable).

"Surely, We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light. Thereby, the prophets, who had surrendered themselves, gave judgment for those of Jewry, as did the masters and the rabbis, following such portions of God's Book as they were given to keep and bear witness to" [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:48].
"O believers, be not of those who hurt Moses, but God declared him quit of what they said, and he was high honored with God" [Qur'an, "Confederates", chapter 33:69].

"We gave the Children of Israel the Book, the Judgment and the Prophethood, and We provided them with good things, and We preferred them above all beings" [Qur'an, "Hobbling" , chapter 45:15].


"And when Moses said to his people. `Remember G-d's blessing upon you, He...gave you such as He had not given to any other being. Oh my people, enter the Holy Land which G-d has prescribed for you...' And the angels say, 'We settled the Children of Israel in a sure settlement" [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:23; "Jonah", chapter 10:93].
Israel was even meant to fight for the land:
"...They [the Children of Israel] said to a prophet of theirs [Samuel]: 'Raise up for us a king, and we will fight in G-d's way.' He said 'Might it be that, if fighting is prescribed for you, you will not fight?' They said: 'Why should we not fight in G-d's way?' Yet, when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned their backs, except for a few of them..." [Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:246, 247].
"Pharoah sought to scare them out of the land [of Israel]; but We [Allah] drowned him, together with all who were with him. Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the World to Come comes to pass, We shall assemble you all together" [Qur'an, "Night Journey", chapter 17:106 - which foresees the return of a "mixed multitude"].


The Qur'an forbids making a division between the prophets before or after the Exile (Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:130,208, "The House of Imram", chapter 3:78), and before or after the Hegira. Furthermore, the Qur'an praises the Psalms of David, which are Songs of Zion. The Qur'an acknowledges David as God's viceroy and Judge on Earth [Qur'an, "Zad", chapter 38:16-19,25].



"We sent against you [Israel] our servants [the Romans] to discountenance you, and to enter the Temple, as they [the Babylonians] entered it the first time, and to destroy utterly what they ascended to. Perchance your Lord will have mercy upon you, but if you return [to the Land of Israel], We shall return...[to you]" [Qur'an, "Night Journey", chapter 17:8].

"There is a ban upon a city [Jerusalem] that We have destroyed. They [the Jews] shall not return [to the Land of Israel] till when Gog and Magog are unloosed, and they slide down out of every slope, and nigh has drawn the true promise, and behold, the eyes of the unbelievers staring. 'Alas for us! We were heedless of this. Nay, we are evildoers" [Qur'an, "The Prophets", chapter 21:96, 97].

Who or what prompts you to enlist in the hordes of Gog and Magog?

In this context the Qur'an warns:

"Upon this day when their faces are turned about in the fire, they shall say: 'Ah, would we had obeyed God and the messenger!' They shall say: 'Our Lord, we obeyed the chiefs and great ones, and they led us astray from the way. Our Lord, give them chastisement twofold, and curse them with a mighty curse" [ Qur'an, "The Confederates", chapter 33:66].

The next verse admonishes:

"O believers, be not as those who hurt Moses, but God declared him quit of what they said, and he was high honored with God" [Qur'an, "The Confederates", chapter 33:68].

"Dispute not with the People of the Book, save in a fairer manner, except for those of them that go wrong; and say: 'We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you, our God and your God are One, and to Him we have surrendered" [Qur'an, "The Spider", chapter 29:45].


"If God had willed, he would have made you one nation, but he may try you in what has come to you. So be ye forward in good works, unto God shall you return altogether, and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance" [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:53; "The Bee", chapter 16:95].
It is from God that we follow different rituals:

"We have appointed for every nation a holy rite that they shall perform" [Qur'an, "The Pilgrimage", chapter 22:66].

The Qur'an even distinguishes between Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on the one hand, and Ishmael on the other:

"Remember also our servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, men of might they and of vision. Assuredly, We purified them with a quality most pure, the remembrance of the Abode, and in our sight, they are of the chosen, the excellent. Remember also our servants Ishmael, Elisha and Dhool Kifl, each is among the excellent" [Qur'an, "The Zad", chapter 38:45-48].

According to these verses, the three Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are described as purified, chosen and excellent, while Ishmael, although being counted among the excellent, is not mentioned as chosen. The chosen-ness of the three Patriarchs has to do with the Land Covenant which the Lord of All Beings made with them [Tanach, Genesis 15:18, 17:4-8, 26:4, 35:11-12].

While every nation has its own distinctive characteristics, it is exactly this Land Covenant which molds the People of Israel into something distinctive, unique in history.

The Qur'an stresses this repeatedly:

"[Allah] gave you such as He had not given to any being. O My People [the Israelites], enter the Holy Land [Land of Israel] which God has prescribed for you..." [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:24]. "Children of Israel, remember...that I have preferred you above all beings" [Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:44].

Note also the distinction between the calls and levels of Abraham's son Isaac, grandson Jacob and son Ishmael:

"We gave him [Abraham] Isaac and Jacob, and each We made a prophet, and We gave them our mercy, and We appointed to them a tongue of truthfulness, sublime...And Ishmael...was true to his promise, and he was a messenger, a prophet. He bade his people to pray and to give alms, and he was pleasing to his Lord" [Qur'an, "Mary", chapter 19:50-56; "The Prophets", chapter 21:72,85].
The Qur'an does say that Abraham "was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but a Muslim of pure faith" (Qur'an, "The House of Imram", chapter 3:60). He "named you Muslim(submitted) aforetime" [Qur'an, "The Pilgrimage", chapter 22:77-78] and admonished you to "follow the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith and no idolater" [Qur'an, "The Bee", chapter 16:124].
The expression "He named you Muslim aforetime" shows that the term "Muslim" is here applied in its etymological sense, meaning "one who submits to God", a God Fearer who followed the universal faith of Noah (Genesis 9) given to all mankind, rather than the member of a specific later religion.

It is in this sense that the Qur'an speaks of the prophets of Israel as those who have surrendered to God; i.e., as Muslims (God Fearers) [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:48], despite the fact that they and the People of Israel were commanded to observe ordinances and rites different from those of the descendants of Ishmael.
An example of such differences is the Sabbath. This day of rest and sanctification is for the Children of Israel also a sign of God's covenant with them [Tanach, Exodus 31:13-17].
The Qur'an confirms this and even ridicules Jews who do not observe the Sabbath as "apes" [Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:63].
"Praise the Lord, all you nations, praise him, all you people, for his grace did prevail over us, and the Lord's truth is for ever. Praise you the Lord" [Tanach, Psalm 117].
"Have you considered? If it be from God, and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from among the Children of Israel bears witness to its like, and believes, and you wax proud, God guides not the people of the evildoers" [Qur'an, "Sand Dunes", chapter 46:8-9].



ABRAHAMS' PRAYER

When told by the Lord that in spite of their high age he would get a son from Sarah, Abraham prayed [Bere****/Genesis 17:18]

"O that Ishmael might live before thee!"

Abraham loved both Ishmael and Isaac, therefore he had to be told:

"Take now thy son, thine only whom you have loved, even Isaac..." [Bere****/Genesis 22:2]. The specification "even Isaac", was to tell him which one of the two beloved sons he should bring to Mount Moriah.

Abraham did not merely pray "that Ishmael might live". He was not concerned that Ishmael would be threatened by Isaac, and would need a special prayer for the protection from the latter.

Abraham was concerned that Ishmael, biologically the firstborn, might try to bring the whole heritage unto himself, and deprive Isaac of the Divine promise.

Abraham prayed that Ishmael might live before the Lord. This prayer should encourage and guide him to let his spiritual Abrahamic inheritance get the upper hand so that he would be alive in the Divine spirit, and consequently recognize also Isaac's call.

The two brothers and their descendants should not fight over the inheritance but "compete in good works" as the Qur'an, Ishmael's guide book, says so aptly.

In the spirit of our father Abraham, let us , the Children of Ishmael and the Children of Israel, pray together:

"O that both of us -- Ishmael and Israel -- might live before Thee!"

MORE POINTS:

1. It stresses the continued validity of the "Book" - Jonah 38; Table 52; Cow 172; Believers 56; Bee 45-47; and others

2. It recognizes the teachings of the Prophets, even of the rabbis -- Table 48 (notwithstanding Repentance 30-35)
3. It recognizes the peculiarity of Israel and the unparalleled gifts to its people (including the land promise) -- Hobbling 15; Cow 60, 247

4. The Land of Israel is prescribed for the Children of Israel -- Table 23

5. Allah settled the Children of Israel in the Land of Israel -- Jonah 93

6. The Children of Israel are rebuked for not fighting for the Land of Israel -- Cow 60, 247
7. David's Kingdom (Zion) and Psalms confirmed, and he being acknowledged as Divine viceroy on earth - Zad 19,25; Cow 252 [cf Is. 28:16]

8. The Psalms and Prophets speak of Israel's return to the land and Jerusalem, and so does the Qur'an -- Bani Israel 8,105

9. Israel often harshly rebuked in the Qur'an, but there is no cancellation of the Covenant or of the Promises

10. On the contrary, the words of the Prophets shall surely be established -- Greeks 5; Hobbling 31; Believers 76

11. Abraham is called a true Muslim - Imram 60; Pilgrimage 77; Cattle 162; and so are the Prophets -- Table 48, notwithstanding their keeping Shabbat and their direction of prayer toward Jerusalem [cf. I Kings 8:30,42]

12. Abraham established a) Mount Moriah in Jerusalem for Israel -- Genesis 22:2, II Chronicles 3:1 b) The Kaaba in Mecca for Ishmael -- Cow 119, 123

13. Qiblah (direction of prayer) for Muslim to Mecca, and for Jews to Jerusalem -- Cow 140, 143 (cf. I Kings 8:29,30)

14. The Qur'an admits different religious rites, and urges all of us to compete in good works - Cow 143, Table 53, Pilgrimage 66

15. Allah wants to be honored by forgiveness and love - Table 15-17, Woman Tested 7, Counsel 14
Allah Himself is saying that Jerusalem is as important to Jews as Mecca is to Muslims.

In "The Cow" Allah says that Jews and Muslims have their own special directions of prayer (Jerusalem for Jews and Mecca for Muslims) [Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:140].

"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his fellow", said King Solomon [Mishle/Proverbs 21:17].


"God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds, and you have your deeds, there is no argument between us and you. God shall bring us together, and unto Him is our homecoming" [Qur'an, "The Counsel", chapter 42:14].



"I believe that there is no God but He in whom the Children of Israel believe. I am of those that surrender" [Qur'an, "Jonah" chapter 10-90].

 

[Abu Zakariya]

KingDavid

The answer to your questions: no.

 

[lavikor201]

KingDavid

The answer to your questions: no.

So why would G-d change the law of keeping the Sabbath that he told the Jews would be "eternal" for them? Or do you accuse our great sages of "changing" that part to, so all the Jews would really think that the laws were eternal when they really weren't? ^o)

Lavikor do you havethe answere to my question?

Be patient, I am trying. :sunny: