Trumble said:
Israel isn't the biggest of countries, even if you included Gaza and the West Bank with that. I very much doubt there is any "free unoccupied land", or at least any worth having.
So find another way to compensate them. Use money to build them new homes in better places, whatever. I don't think Palestinians would easily agree to live in a place called Israel whether it was Sharia or not because of what they went through.
As I said before, it isn't freedom to practice their religion (although that is necessary, of course) that is the major issue. Many Israelis are (to all intents and purposes) secular, anyway.
Well they would also have the freedom to practice no religion. I don't see the problem yet...
In which case it could never be a land Israelis could call their own.
Why is that? It's their land, nobody can take it away from them. Any attempt by this new government to take it away unjustly would mean opression, and this is something that Sharia is made to destroy, not create. If the problem is that Israelis want Jewish law to prevail on their land, this could be feasable if they sat down to talk about it with the Muslims because they would undoubtedly find a lot of similarities in what they want. Is that what you mean?
And how, exactly, would this be enforced?
That's the thing, it would take many months of planning by Muslim scholars from all around the world to see what kind of government would be suitable over there. There isn't one country in the world that practices Sharia properly, therefore it would be a big challenge for them not only to decide which rules are valid, but which rules have to be applied and how given the situation. This would then be presented to the Israeli and Jewish representatives who would analyze it and discuss it with the people who presented it. Undoubtedly both sides would have to sacrifice a part of what they want if they want to reach a compromise, but it would be possible.
They are tired of "taking refuge", and with good reason. They believe, obviously correctly, that the best way to remain "oppression free" is to be in control of your own destiny, not hope historical precedent will guide the actions of those who are.
Up till now they haven't demonstrated that they could do it properly and responsibly. They pretty much invaded Palestinian land and forced them into occupation, and have thus far created a many decades long conflict in which many many people have died. It's obviously not working...so why not try something new?
An elephant is still an elephant even if you paint it in stripes and stick a large label saying "giraffe" on its head.
In these sensitive matters, it's better to be politically correct. Tell the Muslims that they will have a Sharia state, tell the Jews that they will have a Jewish state, it would all be true if a proper agreement was made.
Most laws in most judicial systems are similar as they serve much the same purpose. That doesn't mean people are inclined to accept anybody else's judicial system rather than their own, particularly when that system is religious in nature.
Both sides would have to
feel like it's their own judicial system, or be a judicial system that they don't have any problems with. Muslims live under many different judicial systems all over the world. As long as they're not opressive, we have no problems in living in any of those places. Even those living in so-called Sharia countries and not living in "proper" Sharia countries, but the Muslims living there tolerate it because it's what they're used to. If you give people something that isn't far from what they're used to, or even better in some ways, they would be inclined to agree.
See my previous comment on elephants and giraffes. People don't like paying taxes, either, unless they are their own religious taxes.
Right now they're paying taxes whether they like it or not, and a LOT of taxes at that. I heard that Muslims in Israel pay up to a whopping 50%! Jizya is a very tiny amount compared to that, and would definetely be seen as mercy compared to what they have now. Either way, it's again best to be politically correct, to not make anyone feel like they're being opressed. Simply don't tell them that they're paying jizya, just tell them they they're having significant tax cuts. Would they disagree?
Again, you are under a fundamental misconception in assuming that the whole thing is primarily a problem of religion. How many seats would be allocated to both Jews and muslims who really aren't that bothered about religion at all, but prefer politics to be based around political ideologies?
Mine was just an example that they could form something that was fair. This could be taken further by having each religious party separate into individual political parties, which could then be taken yet another step further and have parties from different religions with similar interests merge. When there's a will there's a way.
Because we do not want to! How would you like to live under strict halacha Torah law? Jews would be denied proper prayer rights at the western wall to.
I really like your "Judaism" thread dude. Could you give us details as to what this kind of government would be like and how it would differ from a Sharia one. Also, is this the kind of government that Israel has now or is aiming for in the first place? Muslims live under different laws all the time, and as I said before, if it's not opressive, we're not complaining. Lastly, could you tell us more about why they would be denied prayer rights at the western wall?
Do you guys have other ideas as to how to go about a proper solition for the Israel and Palestine problem?
