Questions directed to atheists and agnostics only

[tomtomsmom]

A question more for the agnostics than the athiests, especially those agnostic who confess to actually believing in God or a god.



What is it that you believe/don't believe/think of with regard to God/god?

My understanding of the term agnostic is that you don't reject the idea that there might be a god, but that you don't confess to the idea that there is either. That you don't know one way or the other, and don't think that it really is possible for anyone to know. If your view differs significantly from this can you please explain in what why it differs.

I am going to try to explain so bear with me as I take you into the twistedness that is my brain.......


My belief: 100% for sure without a doubt there is a God. He put us all here and when we die some will go to heaven and some will go to hell. Saying that, I don't know what to call him. I don't know if he sent a book to us and if so which one is the real one. I don't know what he wants from me other than to try and be a good person. I can not accept the thought that when we die our souls vanish. I can not accept the thought that the miracles I have seen in my life are mere conicidence. There has to be something out there "pulling the strings" so to speak. I have agnostic on my profile because due to certain forum rules I have to have something under religion. I put agnostic because that is the closest listed to what I am. But in reality I guess I would be called a religious peron without a religion.

Note to mods:Can that be put on the choices for religion?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ sis do you have any questions about islam?

Perhaps we can try answering them

 

[tomtomsmom]

^ sis do you have any questions about islam?

Perhaps we can try answering them

Lol not at the moment brother but when I do I will for sure ask. Bro FI has been most helpful in answering my many questions. Thank you for asking!

 

[- Qatada -]

That's kool Just remember to keep praying to God to guide us all, and to keep us firm on the right path. ameen.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I am going to try to explain so bear with me as I take you into the twistedness that is my brain.......


My belief: 100% for sure without a doubt there is a God. He put us all here and when we die some will go to heaven and some will go to hell. Saying that, I don't know what to call him. I don't know if he sent a book to us and if so which one is the real one. I don't know what he wants from me other than to try and be a good person. I can not accept the thought that when we die our souls vanish. I can not accept the thought that the miracles I have seen in my life are mere conicidence. There has to be something out there "pulling the strings" so to speak. I have agnostic on my profile because due to certain forum rules I have to have something under religion. I put agnostic because that is the closest listed to what I am. But in reality I guess I would be called a religious peron without a religion.

Note to mods:Can that be put on the choices for religion?

You know, I can really understand that position, that you have a sense that there really is a god -- something/someone bigger than yourself -- but you don't feel that you know enough to say much more about the nature of that god than that he/she/it exists. There is enough confusing about all of the codified religions to make them at best confusing, and at worst to appear even deceiving, so you are left to just fumble around in the dark sort of believing but not really knowing what it is that you do believe. Then when organized religion appears more concerned with getting another name and another pledge added to their rolls than in helping your to explore your faith, when they want you to find their God their way, rather than to get better acquainted with whatever it is in god that is seeking out you it seems better to just wash your hands of the whole institutional process and claim nothing going naked before whatever god there is, rather than trying to wear something of a god in a religion that doesn't really fit right.

Just curious how I did in describing you, or if I really missed the mark?

 

[- Qatada -]

I found this quite powerful..
​

The Criterion

[media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=SlwcmjHyx84[/media]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SlwcmjHyx84​

 

[wilberhum]

This agnostic believes there is a god but accepts the possibility that there is no god.
If there is a god, there is one and only one god, who is whole totally good.
That about sums up what I believe. The list of what I don’t believe is quite long.
I don’t believe in any “holy book” or “prophet”. I don’t believe in heaven, hell or any other kind of after life. I believe all religions were created by men for men. Every religion has got it wrong and the only ones that have any chance of having all the facts right are the atheists.

And as usual, I think Woodrow has made balanced and accurate statements.

 

[tomtomsmom]

You know, I can really understand that position, that you have a sense that there really is a god -- something/someone bigger than yourself -- but you don't feel that you know enough to say much more about the nature of that god than that he/she/it exists. There is enough confusing about all of the codified religions to make them at best confusing, and at worst to appear even deceiving, so you are left to just fumble around in the dark sort of believing but not really knowing what it is that you do believe. Then when organized religion appears more concerned with getting another name and another pledge added to their rolls than in helping your to explore your faith, when they want you to find their God their way, rather than to get better acquainted with whatever it is in god that is seeking out you it seems better to just wash your hands of the whole institutional process and claim nothing going naked before whatever god there is, rather than trying to wear something of a god in a religion that doesn't really fit right.

Just curious how I did in describing you, or if I really missed the mark?

I would have to say that you are very near the mark and very well said to boot!

 

[Woodrow]

All comments are to be directed to the topic and not to any members. We do not have to agree with or even like each other. However to have any meaning ful debate and/of discusions we need to act as civilized human beings and not lower ourselves to emotionalism.

 

[Pygoscelis]

All comments are to be directed to the topic and not to any members. We do not have to agree with or even like each other. However to have any meaning ful debate and/of discusions we need to act as civilized human beings and not lower ourselves to emotionalism.

Were here a bunch of posts deleted that I didn't see? This looks like a moderator message telling people to behave, but I didn't see anybody misbehave. :?

 

[- Qatada -]

Unfortunately that was the case ^ people did misbehave.

 

[Hemoo]

new questions arrived :

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

the things you didn't smel or hear or see or touch or taste ... can be the facts you never got the chance to examine .although they are facts and the problem is with you ..

i mean that it is a fact that many things do exist but me and you didn't know because me and you didn't deal with them ..

for example before the scientist discover that there is something called a Galaxy ,all people didn't know there is a galaxy ,although there was many galaxies..

i hope i made my question clear ... and as someone here said " Lack of reasons is not a reason enough to assume the non existences of things."

the questions again :

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

 

[Pygoscelis]

new questions arrived :

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

I think I'm a pure materialist, but not sure if I understand what that means so am not sue I am one.

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

If they are so remote that they have no impact on my life, measurable by my senses, then I really don't care about them whether they exist or not. It is irrelevant.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I would have to say that you are very near the mark and very well said to boot!

If I may, then I would encourage you just to remain open. If there is a god, and I do believe there is, then allow him to reveal himself to you in his own good time and way. If I am wrong, you will have wasted nothing by remaining open to the possibility of something/someone being there that you can't say does not.

Then, if (I'm going to assume "when") God makes God's self known to you, you will be in a position to respond in appropriate ways. I don't think all things are revealed to all people. In fact, I doubt if any of us truly knows completely. But that doesn't mean we can't know some things. If you are truly open, if you are listening, if you are watching, I expect that God will make God's self known to you in either the people you meet, the conversations you have, the things you read, or the circumstances of life itself. One of Jesus' frequent sayings after telling a parable to explain something about God was, "let those who have ears to hear, hear." I think he was simply inviting people to go deeper, that there was more than just a story involved, that in big and small ways God is actually revealing something of God's self to us, making God's self known and knowable, if we'll only remain open to exploring that very real possibility.

Anyway, I'm glad for the faith you do have, and pray for it to take root and grow in whatever form helps you to grow closer to the one who is bigger than you. Whether that is through organized religion or not I don't think is as important as simply making that personal connection with God that I believe God seeks to have with everyone.

Peace!

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

new questions arrived :

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

I assume you mean 'materialist' in the philosophical sense of having a purely physical understanding of the universe, rather than the social sense of living one's life according to material wealth.

I'm a promissory materialist, i.e. I believe that all psychological states and other immaterial phenomena can in theory be explained in physical terms, but that many of them are currently unexplained. There are things in the universe that cannot currently be explained by science, but I believe that the scientific method is the best way of exploring and developing an understanding of them.

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

Do you mean something like this?:

I have never seen the Great Wall of China. I've seen pictures of it and so on, but I've never seen the real thing with my own eyes. Do I believe it exists? Yes, because I think that its existence is more likely than the idea that every known image of it has been faked and that people have been led by mass mind-control to believe it exists.

the things you didn't smel or hear or see or touch or taste ... can be the facts you never got the chance to examine .although they are facts and the problem is with you ..

So they are facts that are unknown to me. What is the problem with that? I have on my bookshelf a book about the Russian Revolution that I haven't read yet. I'm sure there are plenty of facts in there that I don't know. That doesn't stop them being facts, though, does it?

i mean that it is a fact that many things do exist but me and you didn't know because me and you didn't deal with them ..

True - like the newly-discovered species of leopard that was found recently in Borneo. Nobody knew about it until it turned up as living, breathing evidence of its own existence.

for example before the scientist discover that there is something called a Galaxy ,all people didn't know there is a galaxy ,although there was many galaxies..

Right, astronomers discovered galaxies. I'm not sure what point you're making now.

i hope i made my question clear ... and as someone here said " Lack of reasons is not a reason enough to assume the non existences of things."

Lack of evidence is enough to doubt it, though, isn't it?

Peace

 

[wilberhum]

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

A pure materialist only cares about wealth and possessions. Past the point of need, enough to eat Etc., wealth would be great but not the most precious. My wife, my children, my parents, my health, and my experiences are of much more value than some more money. So the answer would have to be no.

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

Well, I just can’t deal with things I can’t deal with. I don’t know about things I don’t know about. I assume that people who did not/do not know about Galaxies didn’t think about them. So the question is not clear at all.

 

[Grace Seeker]

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

If they are so remote that they have no impact on my life, measurable by my senses, then I really don't care about them whether they exist or not. It is irrelevant.

They may not be so remote as you think. Carbon monoxide is a tasteless, odorless, invisible gas that is completely undetectable to our 5 senses, yet it kills hundreds of people every year.

You see light, but the spectrum of light is much larger than that portion of it which is detectable by our sense of sight. Yet it is not only very real, but can have a huge impact on our life. How much exposure to those ultra-violet waves may be particular relevant to whether you are at risk for sunburns and skin cancer or not.

So, even though you can't measure things with your 5 senses, I believe that maybe you should, and probably do, care about many of them. Now, just as there are light waves that would be visible to you if you had a better developed sense of sight, say that of a bee, so too might there be other things that would observable to you if some other sense was better developed? I want to suggest that latent within most people is a 6th sense, a spiritual sense. I do not think this sense is particularly well developed in anyone, but I do think that it exists. By it some people become aware of the presence and existance of God, that to others is about as discernable as the presence of carbon monoixde to a sleeping baby or ultra-violet rays to a man sleeping on the beach. The question is not about the reality of God's presence, but our ability to perceive or relate to God.

Fortunately, just as we can develop some of our senses by careful use and attention to them, so even this latent and underdeveloped spiritual sensitivity can be exrecised to enable one to become more aware of and sensitive to God's presence. You may not wish to do so. You may feel perfectly suited for this world using just the senses you have. If so, that is your decision to make. But that doesn't make it as wise of a deicsion as you might think if you are only using your 5 senses and not exploring the 6th.

Indeed you could find yourself waking up dead and burned as a result of it.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

They make not be so remote as you think. Carbon monoxide is a tasteless, odorless, invisible gas that is completely undetectable to our 5 senses, yet it kills hundreds of people every year.

This isn't analogous to god, though, is it? People can detect the presence of carbon monoxide objectively using scientific instruments. The only way to detect the presence of god is to find someone who already believes in god and ask them if they 'feel his presence'.

I want to suggest that latent within most people is a 6th sense, a spiritual sense. I do not think this sense is particularly well developed in anyone, but I do think that it exists.

What evidence do you have that this sixth sense exists?

By it some people become aware of the presence and existance of God, that to others is about as discernable as the presence of carbon monoixde to a sleeping baby or ultra-violet rays to a man sleeping on the beach. The question is not about the reality of God's presence, but our ability to perceive or relate to God.

Your argument seems circular: god exists because some people believe god exists. Hardly a rational basis for a belief, is it?

Fortunately, just as we can develop some of our senses by careful use and attention to them, so even this latent and underdeveloped spiritual sensitivity can be exrecised to enable one to become more aware of and sensitive to God's presence. You may not wish to do so. You may feel perfectly suited for this world using just the senses you have.

Does this not imply that only people who want to believe in god actually do? That belief in god is a question of volition? I may want never-ending chocolate bars to exist, but it doesn't mean they do.

Peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

This isn't analogous to god, though, is it? People can detect the presence of carbon monoxide objectively using scientific instruments. The only way to detect the presence of god is to find someone who already believes in god and ask them if they 'feel his presence'.

I wasn't trying to be analogous to God. I was just calling the logic of the previous argument, and thus the conclusion that it reached, into question.

What evidence do you have that this sixth sense exists?

In a world of blind people, what evidence would there be for the existence of the sense of sight?

Someone would tell you that they could see, but everyone could simply say prove it. I find those who tell me that they have sensed God to be credible, if you want to call the circular, that really is more your problem than mine, because I believe I've sensed him myself, so I don't need anyone to prove it to me. And if you won't accept my testimony, I can't prove it to you.

Your argument seems circular: god exists because some people believe god exists. Hardly a rational basis for a belief, is it?

So, you believe that before admitting to the existence of something that there has to be a rational basis for a belife in that objects existence.

Isn't that itself a belief you've reached on the basis of an apriori assumption in it? What is the rational basis for all things needing to be rational? Talk about a circular belief.

Fortunately, just as we can develop some of our senses by careful use and attention to them, so even this latent and underdeveloped spiritual sensitivity can be exrecised to enable one to become more aware of and sensitive to God's presence. You may not wish to do so. You may feel perfectly suited for this world using just the senses you have.

Does this not imply that only people who want to believe in god actually do? That belief in god is a question of volition? I may want never-ending chocolate bars to exist, but it doesn't mean they do.

I don't think it implies that.

I do begin with a belief that God does exist. I write from that persepctive. And from that perspective, I believe that even those who don't believe may have this undeveloped spiritual sense. I think that we are created and born with it and that it is just as real as any of the other senses. But I would agree for it to develop that it needs contact with God. So, belief in never-ending chocolate bars doesn't make them so. But if we begin with an assumption that God does exist, then it would follow that learning to exercise and develop our spiritual sense will make those who have done so more aware of the presence and nature of God than those who don't. Likewise, if never ending chocolate bars do exist, then it would be an advisable thing to develop whatever sense would help us find and consume them, assuming this is your goal.

 

[snakelegs]

new questions arrived :

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

of course not. the world is full of mysteries and questions with no answers.

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

the things you didn't smel or hear or see or touch or taste ... can be the facts you never got the chance to examine .although they are facts and the problem is with you ..

i mean that it is a fact that many things do exist but me and you didn't know because me and you didn't deal with them ..

for example before the scientist discover that there is something called a Galaxy ,all people didn't know there is a galaxy ,although there was many galaxies..

i hope i made my question clear ... and as someone here said " Lack of reasons is not a reason enough to assume the non existences of things."

the questions again :

do you consider your self a pure materialist ?

what about things that do exist but you didn't have the chance to deal with it with your 5 sences ?

there are many things that i cannot detect with my senses and many questions without answers. personally, i rather like that. i am very comfortable with the concept that ultimately, there is much that is unknowable.