Questions from an Atheist

[joboman24]

You know by that logic, it would be very difficult to strive in this hopeless world. If I am lazy, I can just say, "by this logic" that since I have such a bad luck, I should not be doing anything.

Actually, we are brainwashed with this luck logic by this world. People around us, our family, peers, and media drive us to that point that where start to doubt ourselves. We start to believe that money and richness is everything and we start to lose the concept of defying them. People who have strong faith will realize the truth and fight against the rules create to brainwash society.

i wasn't planning on posting again but some of the stupidity of logic here seems to amaze me. Yes if you are lazy you could say bad luck about it and not do anything about it but you are going to lead a not so fun life. You are saying money and richness is everything for atheists. Well it could be a small part of it just like any other religious human being's desire to run a successfull business and be wealthy. But the number one that is everything for me is CONTEMPTNESS. If I have peace and contempt within myself then I have led one hell of a life. You are saying the society of rules is what has brainwashed me. And I could say the society of religion has clearly brainwashed you. At least society can make some factual claims and back it up with legitimate proof. Can religion do that? No it cannot. It is based on a book that could have been written by anyone who had a thinking and working brain and who wanted to go down in history books. It is quite possible Warren Jeffs, the polygamist leader will become a God in a few hundred years. He already is a prophet halfway there :statisfie

 

[جوري]

Can religion do that? No it cannot.

you're so apt at posing and answering your own Q's..Is there a point to you being here?
btw what happened to the list of Q's I posed for your yesterday? miraculously disappeared I guess no one likes to see an atheist sweat...

best,

 

[M.I.A.]

i am an atheist. I was born and brought up as a hindu. Why do we as human beings have so much faith in god whether it's allah, krishna, or jesus. Just because someone tells us and wrote in a book that there is a god why should be have in discriminant faith on a specific god and why do we kill each other about our different beliefs or being a "nonbeliever"? Why do we not get any messages from the people who have passed on in the afterlife so to tell us that there "actually" is a paradise? Why are we conditioned since birth to believe in a specific religion and will go to the ends of the earth's to protect it?

usually the people who write those books are those closest to god.

imagine stephen hawking writing a book on physics.. he knows what he's talking about.
people spend a lot of years in university and a career and are still not able to fully grasp his understanding or are on his level.

to the laymen its all gibberish.


i think religion is very similar, except that gravity can be proofed.

maybe god can be proofed also, but those people are rarer than hawkings.

sure even the most rudimentary scientist knows that the universe is a complex system of laws which all things adhere to, in theory at least.. they do not attribute it to god though..

maybe they have also seen the world as you have seen it.. believing in god is harder than believing in science.
but behind the people and the chaos there is still something.. that system of laws.. and if you cant believe in the people, what else can you believe in?

we all walk our paths for as long as needed. i cant even figure out how iv interacted with all the people iv met. what iv brought to there lives or them mine.

i guess religion is put in place to make sure we make the least mischief on our own little paths.
maybe that is the difference between believers and non believers.. dont beat yourself up over it though.

there is no compulsion in religion, things are never fully in our control no matter how much of a swat we become. that is certainty of god in uncertainty of action..

im glad you think war is not the answer though, exchanging ideas to establish some common ground and common sense goes a lot further in civilised society..

but i guess that is the problem with those societies.. in some there are the oppressed without voices and in some there are the ignorant with voices.

depends on who you choose to lead i guess.
and what endearing qualities you chose them for.

 

[joboman24]

Who said we follow anyone blindly? In Islam you are supposed to verify whatever to hear prior to blindly believing in it. As for me, I have tried reading the Qur'an. verified what I read and then started practicing. Seeking knowledge is an obligation on every Muslim.

You have proof for the contrary? Let's see we have clear evidence that all the shooters were from the LET organization. We know 100% who masterminded this. We clearly know every single shooter's identitity from the shooting. I haven't read oparen and harin but what I believe in is something that can be backed up based on facts and not pure "myths". Primeval mass? You mean what was there before something? And how did nothing become into something? Well we are not quite sure yet as to why but we do know one thing. That energy cannot be created or destroyed and has been there for "infinity". Some of us human beings cannot comprehend the idea of infinity so we take the easy way out and say that there is a "god" who created the universe yada yada yada. We want the easy answer be close minded and not try to give a **** about another point of view which could be a much more plausible possibility for the creation of life. And are you really going to go into the JMK politics? Tell me in the last decade how many "terrorist" attacks have been planted against Indians and how many "terrorist" attacks if any India has committed against the country of Pakistan in Pakistan. Thank you.


Then how did you come into existence? you dont believe in God but you believe in science? the science that pretty much in every decade takes a U-turn? you believe everything came into existnce b'coz of big bang? but where did that premeival mass come from? you believe in books written by Oparin & Haldein where they write about their experiments and believe them but refuse to read the Qur'an and ponder over it?

Before asking such questions I would suggest you go through the Qur'an. Once you do that (with understanding) I strongly believe that these questions of yours will appear meaningless to you!



Islam Has been there since the advent of Adam (p.b.u.h). There have been more than 1 lack Prophets who walked the face of the earth and Muhammad (s.a.w) is the last one among them! Jesus (p.b.u.h) was also a Prophet who taught Islaam, so did Moses (p.b.u.h)!




What do you know about Jammu & Kashmir? Is it just what media tells you? do you know the actual condition? do you know about the condition of Muslims in Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other places? if you actually knew you would realize that Muslims are the victims not the other way round.

you talk about proof for everything right? so what proof do you have that whatever happened in Mumbai was done by Muslims? Well I have a proof for the contrary!

In Islam killing a single innocent soul is considered as if you have killed the whole of humanity! so whoever those people are, they can't be Muslims! Even if there are killings happening in Kashmir, 1000 innocents killed in kashmir still do not validate killing even a single innocent in Mumbai! these are all the anti-Islamic propagandas. Media plays the wizard and everyone falls for it's tricks.

the crux is, whatever you hear or read, verify it brother. VERIFY! that's it! By verifying I don't mean you read another book written by some-one against religion to support the 1st one you read! Search for facts.

May Allah make your quest easy for you and may you finally find the truth!

 

[joboman24]

i apologize for the quotes all over the place. What questions did you ask me? Post em here again and I will answer them.

 

[جوري]

excerpts from last night's post a direct reply to one of your numerous loggerheaic posts.

What logic do you employ or have employed?
What is the origin of life? do you have solid scientific evidence that doesn't loan itself to fairy tales albeit of a different form?
what came first the chicken or the egg? and can you carry us through that process to complex noetic beings from unicellular to multicellular x the number of species in existence and those that existed using full biochemical and physiological processes again logically without resorting to other forms of fairy tales or referencing me to a website whose logic you can't weave into the fabric of what you write with such bravado.
you're already starting with a double negative. You've neither 'logically' proven that there's no God nor provided a scientific logical and demonstrable truth to the world you find yourself in. Being a dynamo of a hyperbole unfortunately doesn't count as logic!

best

 

[joboman24]

M.I.A the difference between science and religion is that there is foolproof backing to it based on math and other areas. There is no backing to relgion except "somebody said so". Now I am not saying do not listen to anything the quran says. There may be a lot of things in that book that could be used to the betterment of society and the human race. But believing that he is GOD who created the universe when all he is a human being. Why does god have to be in a human form? Couldn't he have been a snake, dog, or a space alien? We are a microscopic fragment of this universe (the earth, even more so human beings) in the big picture we are absolutely meaningless to a degree. People have gone through hard times in history and have tried to find peace and comfort as some sort of a comfort blanket. Just like drug users find comfort and bliss in heroin you find it in religion. Just because he was smart enough to write a book about "morals" of society doesn't make him a prophet to "God". You think if God really wanted everyone to believe in him they would actually give us a sign. And religious people argue there is a time and a place where god will show himself or he wants you to repent him and wait for him in the afterlife.. But that is just an illogical cop out based on delusional rationalization.

 

[جوري]

difference between science and religion is that there is foolproof backing to it based on math and other areas

That is incorrect. Nothing in science is 100% as such we never even accept a theory we can reject it or fail to reject it & tighten our confidence interval with numbers so far off from absolution! & that is how science works! Hows about you actually enroll in some epidemiology and statistics classes before you open that bazoo with utter nonsense? Science is forever self-correcting and all of science including math is borne of our imagination from observable phenomenon which we as humans decide the baseline which again is an imaginary line that we agree upon and by which things are compared and measured .. a different place in space and time will have a different set of values.

 

[marwen]

joboman24 can I ask you a question, just for the sake of knowing another point of view? How do you explain the existence of this universe ?

 

[joboman24]

excerpts from last night's post a direct reply to one of your numerous loggerheaic posts.

What logic do you employ or have employed?
What is the origin of life? do you have solid scientific evidence that doesn't loan itself to fairy tales albeit of a different form?
what came first the chicken or the egg? and can you carry us through that process to complex noetic beings from unicellular to multicellular x the number of species in existence and those that existed using full biochemical and physiological processes again logically without resorting to other forms of fairy tales or referencing me to a website whose logic you can't weave into the fabric of what you write with such bravado.
you're already starting with a double negative. You've neither 'logically' proven that there's no God nor provided a scientific logical and demonstrable truth to the world you find yourself in. Being a dynamo of a hyperbole unfortunately doesn't count as logic!

I will put it simply. Logic for me is based on human instinct within myself on what I as an individual entity base right from wrong from observation of nature. This is exactly what your muhammad has done although his views on life I don't agree with everything he has done a fairly average job of writing about immorals and morals. And just because we still haven't figured out what came first the chicken or the egg we have to say that there must be a God? Clearly not. We have been a very shortlived species for the last 400,000 years and our human brain has developed faster than any other animals brain in that time frame. You would think if society survives for say another theoritically 4 billion years until the sun runs out. (very likely we won't due to natural calamities or nuclear weapons or a number of different ways). You would think we would know a hell of a lot more about life then we do in the last 400,000 years. And even if there isn't "solid" evidence how life originated although with scientific backing we have learned that has happened through some form of evolution. And don't you think it is irrelevant asking me about molecular questions? (I am not a scientist although you could talk to one he may give you more answers than me). But it is a hell of a lot more evidence than "religion". In fact it is infinite times as "solid" evidence. Because religion has 0% evidence which anything more than 0% is inifinity.

 

[joboman24]

That is incorrect. Nothing in science is 100% as such we never even accept a theory we can reject it or fail to reject it & tighten our confidence interval with numbers so far off from absolution! & that is how science works! Hows about you actually enroll in some epidemiology and statistics classes before you open that bazoo with utter nonsense? Science is forever self-correcting and all of science including math is borne of our imagination from observable phenomenon which we as humans decide the baseline which again is an imaginary line that we agree upon and by which things are compared and measured .. a different place in space and time will have a different set of values.

Orly math is imagination? Then why do we build buildings based purely on math(geometry)? And why do al qaeda and taliban terrorists build bombs based on science? You think they could still build IED's without science and math?

 

[جوري]

I will put it simply. Logic for me is based on human instinct within myself on what I as an individual entity base right from wrong from observation of nature.

That is NOT logic, it's a personal opinion, and an opinion is subject to many things including drugs & alcohol which alter the preception of reality!

This is exactly what your muhammad has done although his views on life I don't agree with everything he has done a fairly average job of writing about immorals and morals.

That's not what Muhammad P has done. Someone who isn't read in a subject shouldn't gauge it, what do you think? just so you wouldn't make an ass out of yourself!

And just because we still haven't figured out what came first the chicken or the egg we have to say that there must be a God?

If you haven't figured it out then what are you doing here speaking of science and logic?

Clearly not. We have been a very shortlived species for the last 400,000 years and our human brain has developed faster than any other animals brain in that time frame.

What exactly does this mean to you?

You would think if society survives for say another theoritically 4 billion years until the sun runs out.

And your point is?

(very likely we won't due to natural calamities or nuclear weapons or a number of different ways). You would think we would know a hell of a lot more about life then we do in the last 400,000 years. And even if there isn't "solid" evidence how life originated although with scientific backing we have learned that has happened through some form of evolution.

Again, if you don't know what happened then what are you doing here speaking of science or logic? 'Evolution' doesn't answer the question of origin or complex human beings. We'd actually have a better chance at survival being cockroaches or sea turtles!

And don't you think it is irrelevant asking me about molecular questions? (I am not a scientist although you could talk to one he may give you more answers than me).

It is very relevant. You've come here with the bravado with a gorilla beating extra hard on its chest to speak of logic and science, all of a sudden you're not a scientist or a logician? you're not even read in the subjects you wish to argue against.. that's funny to say the least.

But it is a hell of a lot more evidence than "religion". In fact it is infinite times as "solid" evidence. Because religion has 0% evidence which anything more than 0% is inifinity.

How so? assertion of something doesn't a logical argument make..

best,

 

[joboman24]

joboman24 can I ask you a question, just for the sake of knowing another point of view? How do you explain the existence of this universe ?

Hello Marwin thank you for having an open mind to ask me a question. To me the existence of the universe is based on energy. Energy has always been in this so called "universe. It is 100% known for a fact cannot be rebuted or debunked that energy can neither be created or destroyed. It has been for infinite. And for some reason (which we cannot wholly claim for a fact why) all the energy and matter (which also cannoted be created nor destroyed) exploded sending all different masses to different parts of the universe based on pure randomness, science, and math. (angle of burst, explosion intensity etc etc). Two critical needs for life are to create a membrane, which defines a boundary that can contain genetic material, and to replicate it is relatively easy to create a membrane from fatty acids that could have arisen in conditions that mimic early Earth; fatty acids, mixed in water with a little salt, readily create closed structures called vesicles. We are starting to understand a little bit more about the origins but we are still not there yet as we are still evolving in technology and the human mind.

 

[جوري]

Orly math is imagination? Then why do we build buildings based purely on math(geometry)? And why do al qaeda and taliban terrorists build bombs based on science? You think they could still build IED's without science and math?

What does this mean exactly? I think it is time you enrolled in some basic vocational training to foster self-esteem. You're not making any sense..
here's a tissue to wipe that drivel..

best

 

[جوري]

eh it is a waste of time to argue with you. You can go deep deep into a question and question the reality or non reality of it. Is 1+1 really 2? How can you be so certain? All I know is as a human being is that I will believe it when I see it. Not because somebody drew a face of a bearded guy and said he is god. You people kill others if someone draws a picture of the prophet muhammad or allah in a demeaning way. Why doesn't muhammad or allah use their magical powers and strike fear upon the sinful soul

I take it you have nothing of substance to impart as usual & prefer the quick meaningless carpet bombing attacks and fast withdraw method of cowards?

ok great just so we know..

best,

 

[joboman24]

You know what? I don't even need to believe in anything at all for that matter since science isn't 100% proved right? Fine I won't believe in anything I am an atheist who believes in absolutely nothing because there isn't strong evidence to say for sure anything about life including religion. Fair enough? Now why should I believe in allah care to explain?

 

[joboman24]

I take it you have nothing of substance to impart as usual & prefer the quick meaningless carpet bombing attacks and fast withdraw method of cowards?

answer my question. Why does Allah not come down and take their sinful souls to hell? Why does he let killers get away with it. Scammers scam people out of their money and they live one hell of a life. Now please don't start with the afterlife please.............where they would be sinned. That is based on pure ignorance.

 

[جوري]

You know what? I don't even need to believe in anything at all for that matter since science isn't 100% proved right? Fine I won't believe in anything I am an atheist who believes in absolutely nothing because there isn't strong evidence to say for sure anything about life including religion. Fair enough? Now why should I believe in allah care to explain?

I am sorry did anyone give you the impression that they care what you believe or don't? Someone pinch me, isn't this an Islamic forum? did you not come here of your own accord or did the taliban stick a gun to your temple and a keyboard in your face?

:haha: You're funny with a fantastic sense of grandiosity if I ever encountered it.

 

[Muhammad]

Let us try to focus on the points being made rather than attack with insults, otherwise posts may be deleted or the thread closed.

 

[joboman24]

well I am posting in the compartive-religion of the forum do I not have a right?