Quranism

[M.I.A.]

im sure there is some truth in some hadith. if it is the majority or minority of them i do not know.

if they make sense to you and you can fit them within your knowledge of the religion then i guess they are acceptable.

but each person is of differing knowledge and views and application of knowledge and views.



the other end of the scale is those that take all as truth or reject all.

i would say taking all of them as truth is definitely the more risky.

after all the authenticity of the quran is not open for debate.


sure there is valid argument for following the sunna of the prophet pbuh but we do not have that first hand.. not that lucky im afraid.


i dont know how hadiths were recorded.

i know you can have a room full of people all listening to the same thing..and all hearing differently.

id still follow some hadith but id question and reflect on them much before putting them forward.

listened to too many sheiks im afraid.

 

[Muhaba]

At first I didn't understand what you were saying then I checked writer's original post and saw that he did mention


I don't think "interpretation" is a good word to describe the Hadith in relation to the Quran even though we can find interpretations in the Hadith. Perhaps it is better described as "Additional info" that "coincides".

Generally, we look to tafsir for exegesis.

I think what writer described sounds a lot like scholarly work, as it's not that simple to be "knowledgable" in Quran. Even if you have read an english translation of the Quran (or even arabic) it doesn't make you "knowledgable" of the Quran.

I remember you mentioned that you are currently reading the Quran, I think by now you have come across a verse that says that there will be people who read the Quran and be guided and there will be people who read the Quran and get even more lost than before.

There is a lot of humility needed when approaching the Quran, even the second chapter begins with "Alif, Lam, Mim". If anything it should remind us that we are limited in your knowledge as we don't even know what it means.

Personally if someone is interested I would recommend the book here.

It's true that reading just english translation isn't enough. you need a commentary to understand some parts of the Quran. for others, you need to know the period of revelation . not knowing period of revelation of some verses can make a person confused because the Quran was revealed according to different circumstances so it's important to know the circumstances to understant it. you also need to know how the Prophet S: interpreted and applied some verses as incorrect interpretation can mislead a person.

when studying the Quran , go for earlier commentaries that are according to interpretation of the Prophet S: and the companions , such as Ibn Kathir commentary. commentaries according to scholar's own interpretation should be avoided at the start.

One commentary I like best is Tafheem Ul Quran by Sayed Abu Al-Aala Maududi whose english transation is The Meaning Of Quran.

 

[MustafaMc]

Quranists reject the authority of ALL hadith

Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be among the Hadith Rejectors (HR). For a HR what are the basic articles of faith and what are the pillars of Islam? The shahadah for Sunni Muslimis is, "There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad was His servant and messenger." I assume that you consider yourself a Muslim and that you accept this as the first pillar of Islam without which the others are meaningless. What does it mean to you that Muhammad (saaws) was the messenger of Allah (swt)?

 

[Muhaba]

I thought Haddith's were interpretations or part of them at least? Also wouldnt it be the other way around regarding the Quran. Shouldnt the Haddith/Sunnah follow the Quran not reverse? :? Its like looking for a definition then finding a word, most would view that as backwards.

I missed this post. and i don't think i understand what you mean.

The Quran was revealed according to circumstances, so you need to know the circumstances to understand it. you need to know the reason a verse was revealed. for example, there are verses in Surah Al-Ahzab about the Prophet's adopted son divorcing his wife and then God making the Prophet S: marry her. there's a whole story behind that which you need to know to understand.

the verses are:

33:1. O Prophet, fear Allah and do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

33:2
And follow that which is revealed to you from your Lord. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

33:3
And rely upon Allah ; and sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

33:4
Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. And He has not made your wives whom you declare unlawful your mothers. And he has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the

way.​

33:5
Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah . But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

...

33: 36. It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

33:37. And [remember, O Muhammad], when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and fear Allah ," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished.

33: 38. There is not to be upon the Prophet any discomfort concerning that which Allah has imposed upon him. [This is] the established way of Allah with those [prophets] who have passed on before. And ever is the command of Allah a destiny decreed.

33:39
[ Allah praises] those who convey the messages of Allah and fear Him and do not fear anyone but Allah . And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

33:40
Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.


For understanding these verses, one should know the cause of revelation, which is summarized as follows: There was a tradition in the arab world that the adopted son was regarded just like a real son, the adopted son inherited the foster father and the foster father inherited him and the adopted son's divorced or widowed wife was unlawful for the foster father just as the real son's wife is unlawful. but this tradition was unislamic and God Almighty wanted to remove it, and this was done through the marriage of Zayd Bin Harith (R), the adopted son of the Prophet S: . Zayd had been the slave of the PRophet's first wife. She had given him to the Prophet and the Prophet S: had freed him and made him his adopted son. Later, the Prophet tried to get Zayd married to Zaynab (R), cousin of the Prophet S:, but she didn't want to marry him because he had been a slave. since Allah wanted to remove the custom of not marrying adopted son's ex-wives, Allah revealed the verses:
It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

so Zaynab (R) and her family relented and accepted and Zaynab was married to Zayd. but the marriage didn't last and finally Zaid Bin Harith divorced her, although the PRophet S: tried hard to keep him from divorcing her (because he had known in his heart that if Zaid divorced her, the Prophet would have to marry her and he was worried about what people would say about islam since according to the pagan arab tradition, marrying an adopted son's wife was unacceptable). After Zaynab was divorced and her waiting period had ended, God ordered the Prophet S: to marry her and the two were married and the wrong arab custom was removed.

all this story is in the hadith and one needs to know it to understand the verses. Knowing the story behind the revelation of verses also makes the reading of the Quran more enjoyable.

it's also necessary to know how the commandments in the verses were applied by the Prophet S: and by the Companions after him. all that is in the hadith, islamic history, life of the Prophet S: books, etc which every muslim should study from early age.​

 

[MissK]

If Quranists have no leg on which to stand, please explain these verses.

[The Quran 31:6] Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution."

We know (and anyone can find) that there are hadith which contradict other hadith. This only implies that even these sahih authentic, which many Muslims follow, must be fabricated.

“[The Quran 45:6] These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?"


[The Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt."

 

[جوري]

If Quranists have no leg on which to stand, please explain these verses.

[The Quran 31:6] Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution."

We know (and anyone can find) that there are hadith which contradict other hadith. This only implies that even these sahih authentic, which many Muslims follow, must be fabricated.

“[The Quran 45:6] These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?"


[The Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt."

The problem is that you have no understanding of the etymology of the word nor its context.

Let me give an example..
when I use the word Reed- do I intend to say:

a : any of various tall grasses with slender often prominently jointed stems that grow especially in wet areas
or

c : a person or thing too weak to rely on : one easily swayed or overcome

or
: a wind instrument made from the hollow joint of a plant

or
: an ancient Hebrew unit of length equal to six cubits

or
a : a thin elastic tongue (as of cane, wood, metal, or plastic) fastened at one end over an air opening in a wind instrument (as a clarinet, organ pipe, or accordion) and set in vibration by an air current
b : a woodwind instrument that produces sound by the vibrating of a reed against the mouthpiece <the reeds of an orchestra>
or
: a device on a loom resembling a comb and used to space warp yarns evenly

Which one of these do you think is the correct meaning? Should one not take the sentence in context? You've shown and repeatedly total lack of understanding of the noble Quran. The first verse that you've used can easily be applied to you or an atheist who engages in worthless vain discourse to divert people from the true understanding of the Quran



the second verse you quoted is also fully explained. I'd be a bit more forgiving if we didn't have exegesis and scholarship and thus must leave everything rendered to the least learned amongst us for interpretation but there's absolutely no excuse, while we've tafsir al jalalyen, and ibn kathir and tons of scholars across the ages breaking it down for lay people.

Here's baheth al arabi - if you've no desire to understand the Quran itself at least understand Arabic so when you apply it you've proper application and not one borne of your imagination!

http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=حديث

best,

الأَعرابي: بالحَدَثانِ، وفسره، فقال: ِْذا أَصابه حَدَثانُ الدَّهْرِ من مَصائِبه ومَرارِئه، أَلْهَتْه بدَلِّها وحَدِيثها عن ذلك وقوله تعالى: إِن لم يُؤْمِنوا بهذا الحديث أَسَفاً؛ عنى بالحديث القرآن؛ عن الزجاج.
والحديثُ ما يُحَدِّثُ به المُحَدِّثُ تَحْديثاً؛ وقد حَدَّثه الحديثَ وحَدَّثَه به. الجوهري: المُحادثة والتَّحادُث والتَّحَدُّثُ والتَّحْديثُ: معروفات. ابن سيده: وقول سيبويه في تعليل قولهم: لا تأْتيني فتُحَدِّثَني، قال: كأَنك قلت ليس يكونُ منك إِتيانٌ فحديثٌ، غِنما أَراد فتَحْديثٌ، فوَضَع الاسم موضع المصدر، لأَن مصدر حَدَّث إِنما هو التحديثُ، فأَما الحديثُ فليس بمصدر.
وقوله تعالى: وأَما بنِعْمةِ ربك فَحَدِّثْ؛ أَي بَلِّغْ ما أُرْسِلْتَ به، وحَدِّث بالنبوّة التي آتاك اللهُ، وهي أَجلُّ النِّعَم.
وسمعت حِدِّيثى حَسنَةً، مثل خِطِّيبيى، أَي حَديثاً.
والأُحْدُوثةُ ما حُدِّثَ به. الجوهري: قال الفراءُ: نُرى أَن واحد الأَحاديث أُحْدُوثة، ثم جعلوه جمعاً للحَديث؛ قال ابن بري: ليس الأَمر كما زعم الفراءُ، لأَن الأُحْدُوثةَ بمعنى الأُعْجوبة، يقال: قد صار فلانٌ أُحْدُوثةً. فأَما أَحاديث النبي، صلى الله عليه وسلم، فلا يكون واحدها إِلا حَديثاً، ولا يكون أُحْدوثةً، قال: وكذلك ذكره سيبويه في باب ما جاءَ جمعه على غير واحده المستعمل، كعَرُوض وأَعاريضَ، وباطل وأَباطِيل.

 

[Muhaba]

(31:6) There are some human beings *5 who purchase an enchanting diversion *6 in order to lead people away from the way of Allah without having any knowledge, *7 who hold the call to the Way of Allah to ridicule. *8 A humiliating chastisement awaits them. *9

*5 That is, "On the one hand, there is this Mercy and Guidance sent down by Allah, of which some people are taking full advantage, and on the other, there are also some unfortunate people living side by side with the fortunate ones, who are adopting this sort of attitude as against the Revelations of Allah. "

*6 The words lahv al-hadith in the Text imply such a thing as may allure and absorb a listener completely and make him heedless of everything else around him. Lexically, there is nothing derogatory in these words, but in custom and usage they apply to evil and useless and vain things, such as gossip, nonsensical talk, joking and jesting, legends and tales, singing and merry-making, etc.

"To buy" alluring tales may also mean that the person concerned adopts falsehood instead of the Truth, turns away from the guidance and turns to those things which can neither benefit him in the world nor in the Hereafter. But this is the metaphorical meaning. The real meaning of the sentence is that a person should purchase an absurd and useless thing for his money, and this is supported by many traditions. Ibn Hisham has related on the authority of Ibn Ishaq that when the disbelievers of Makkah could not stop the message of the Holy Prophet from spreading in spite of their best efforts, Nadr bin Harith said to the people of Quraish: "The way you are counteracting this man will avail you nothing. He has lived a lifetime among you. Until now he was the best of your men morally: he was the most truthful and the most trustworthy person among you. Now you say that he is a sorcerer and enchanter and a poet and a madman. Who will believe all this? Don't the people know the way the sorcerers talk? Don't they know the enchanters and the way they conduct their business? Are they unaware of poetry and of the states of madness? Which of these accusations sticks to Muhammad (upon whom be Allah's peace) by exploiting which you would turn the people's attention away from him? Look! I will tell you how to deal with him." Then he left Makkah for Iraq and managed to get from there legends and tales about the kings of Iran and Rustam and Isfandyar and started to arrange tale-telling parties to distract the people from the Qur'an and to absorb them in the tales. (Ibn Hisham. vol. I, pp. 320-321). The same tradition has been cited by Vahidi in Asbab un Nazul on the authority of Kalbi and Muqatil. And according to Ibn 'Abbas, Nadr had bough singing girls also for the purpose. Whenever he heard that someone was coming under the Holy Prophet's influence, he would impose a singing girl an him with the instruction: "Feed him and entertain him with your songs so that he is absorbed in you and distracted from the other side." This was the same device which the arch-criminals of the nations have been employing in every age. They try to get the common people so absorbed in fun and sport and musical entertainment's in the name of culture that they are left with no time and sense to attend to the serious problems of life, and in their heedlessness they do not even feel what destruction they are being driven to.

The same commentary of lahv al-hadith has been reported from a large number of the Companions and their immediate followers. 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud was asked, 'What does lahv al-hadith mean in this verse ?" He said thrice emphatically. 'By God! it means singing." (Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Shaibah. Hakim, Baihaqi). Similar traditions have been reported from scholars like 'Abdullah bin' Abbas, Jabir bin 'Abdullah, Mujahid, 'Ikrimah, Said bin Jubair, Hasan Basri: and Makhul. Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim and Tirmidhi have related on the authority of Hadrat Abu Umamah Baheli that the Holy Prophet said, "It is not lawful to buy and sell and trade in singing girls nor is it lawful to take their price." In another tradition, the last sentence is to the effect: ... it is unlawful to eat their price" . Yet another tradition from Abu Umamah is to the effect: To teach music to slave-girls and to trade in them is not lawful and their price is forbidden." All these Ahadith also elucidate that the verse containing lahv al-hadith was sent down in this very connection. Qadi Abu Bakr Ibn al-'Arabi has related in the Ahkam alQur'an a Hadith from Hadrat 'Abdullah bin Mubarak and Imam Malik on the authority of Hadrat Anas, saying, that the Holy Prophet said: 'He who hears the song of a singing-girl in a musical concert, will have molten lead poured into his ear on the Day of Judgement" (In this connection, one should also note that the culture" of music in those days flourished almost entirely through the slave-girls: Free women had not yet become "artists" . That is why the Holy Prophet spoke about trading in slave-girls, and described their wages and earnings as their price. and used the word qaynah for the singing-girl, which is specifically used for a slave-girl in Arabic).

*7 "Without any knowledge" may be connected with "buys" and also "lead...astray". In the first case, it would mean: 'The ignorant foolish person buys this alluring thing and does not know that he is buying a ruinous thing at the cost of a highly valuable thing. On the one hand, there are the Divine verses which are full of wisdom and guidance, which he can obtain without any cost, but he turns away from them. On the other, there are these absurd things, which are disastrous for his morals and he is expending his wealth to obtain them. " In the second case, it would mean: "He has come out to guide the people without any knowledge: he does not know what burden of sin he is taking on himself by trying to lead the people astray from Allah's Way."

*8 That is, This person wants to make fun of the Divine Revelations by alluring and absorbing the people in legends and tales and music. He intends that the invitation of the Qur'an should be derided and ridiculed and laughed away. He plans to fight the Religion of God with the strategy that as soon as Muhammad (upon whom be Allah's peace) should come out to recite Revelations of God to the people, there should be a charming, sweet-voiced damsel giving her performance in a musical concert on the one hand, and a glib-tongued story teller telling tales and legends of Iran, on the other, and the people should become so absorbed in these cultural activities" that they may not be in a mood to hear anything about God and the morals and the Hereafter. "

*9 This punishment will be in accordance with their crime. They want to debase and disgrace God's Religion, His Revelations and His Messenger; God will rake His vengeance on them by giving them a disgraceful torment.

Commentary of chapter 31, verse 6, from TAFHEEM-UL-QURAN, one of the best contemporary commentaries of the Quran, by SAYYAD ABU AL-ALA MAUDUDI, reknowned scholar of Islam, http://www.tafheem.net/tafheem.html

 

[MissK]

(6:114) Shall I look upon anyone apart from Allah for judgement when it is He Who has revealed to you the Book in detail? *81 And those whom We gave the Book (before you) know that this (Book) has been revealed in truth by your Lord. Do not, then, be among the doubters. *82
*81. The implied speaker in this sentence is the Prophet (peace be on him) and the words are addressed to the Muslims. The purpose of the sentence is to impress upon the Muslims that God has elucidated the relevant truths, and has also proclaimed that in their endeavour to make the Truth prevail they will have to follow the path of striving and struggle. The devotees of the Truth should, therefore, resort to those means which human beings normally employ for the successful achievement of their objectives rather than wait for any supernatural intervention that would enable them to achieve their mission without struggle and sacrifice. Moreover, since God Himself had chosen that human effort rather than supernatural intervention should lead to the prevalence of the Truth, who had the power to change this basic fact and bring about the victory of the Truth without any resort to human effort and sacrifice.
*82. This is no mere concoction designed to explain away the current problems. All those versed in the Scriptures, and possessing true understanding of the mission of the Prophets (peace be on them all), will confirm that everything in the Qur'an is perfectly true and in fact constitutes that eternal truth which cannot suffer any change or modification.


Thanks for that website and that explanation of the verses. I really like it and am finding it useful. I pulled the above quote from the same site, but I can't post the link right now as i'm not a full member.

Here is what I don't understand and what I assume Quranists don't understand.

The explanation of the above verse from the Quran (which I also quoted in another post with a different translation) says that the Truth has been clearly elucidated. The other translation says that it has been made simple for us.

If it has been made clear (or simple), then why is the hadith needed to clarify or expand on it?

Furthermore, if God wants us to follow something, why leave it in the hands of man as has happened with hadith?

By following the hadith and sunna as a source of LAW, are we not placing our belief, our trust, and therefore our faith in man as they are the ones who have recorded this (long after it occured) and are now interpreting it for us? It wasn't divinely revealed to them as was the Qur'an to Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

And again, concerning the promise to preserve it. How is the preservation of Sunna and Hadith promised? I know (first hand) that Arabs have an amazing ability to memorize things and it is part of their culture and tradition, but the length of time between when the words were said and when they were finally recorded truly concerns me.

I know people don't like me asking these questions but to be honest, they REALLY bother me. One of the reasons that I always questioned the Bible was because of the corruption that we know has taken place in it. I believe in the Quran wholeheartedly, so it's hard for me to refer back to the Hadith and Sunna without questioning them and their authenticity. Really, if you have any useful links that answer some of these questions, i'd be happy to read them.

 

[Insaanah]

It wasn't divinely revealed to them as was the Qur'an to Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

...And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. (2:143, part)
We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.(2:144)

These verses are in reference to the Muslims facing Jerusalem before the direction of the prayer was changed to Makkah. Allah explicitly states that it was He that appointed that original direction of prayer. However this inspiration and command to the Prophet :saws: to face Jerusalem never formed part of the Qur'an. Hence this shows that the Prophet :saws: received another type of revelation from Allah, that was binding on him and his followers.

And do not pray [the funeral prayer, O Muhammad], over any of them who has died - ever - or stand at his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and died while they were defiantly disobedient. (9:84)

This verse shows us that funeral prayers had already begun to be performed and that the Prophet :saws: used to offer prayers at the burial of the dead before this verse was revealed. Yet there is no verse in the Qur'an that orders the Prophet :saws: and the Muslims to pray specific funeral prayers over the dead. It must be conceded, that the command for the funeral prayer was given through the sunnah, and that command was binding on him and his followers.

These verses also show, that what the Prophet :saws: established as part of the religion, is approved by Allah. Nowhere in the Qur'an can one find any type of censure or rebuke or correction of the Prophet :saws: for establishing facts that are not in the Qur'an. If the Prophet :saws: , whose message and teachings are for everyone until the Day of Judgement, made any statement or established any practice that should not form part of the religion, one would expect that Allah would have clearly and unequivocally demonstrated that such practices do not form part of the religion, or that the Prophet :saws: does not have the right to establish any practice in the religion outside of the Qur'an. But one cannot find anything of that nature. Indeed, you can only find the opposite: approval or acceptance of what the Messenger of Allah established, in addition to the numerous verses ordering Muslims to accept and follow whatever the Prophet :saws: instructs them to do. If these practices of the Prophet :saws: are ordered/approved/accepted by Allah, and Allah commands us to follow them, then Muslims cannot reject them.

Presumably you accept this, but aren't sure about how the sunnah was recorded in the hadeeth, it's preservation and authenticity?

The explanation of the above verse from the Quran (which I also quoted in another post with a different translation) says that the Truth has been clearly elucidated. The other translation says that it has been made simple for us.

If it has been made clear (or simple), then why is the hadith needed to clarify or expand on it?

[/B][The Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt."

There are other similar verses used by those who harbour doubts about the hadeeth, to imply that anything other than the Qur'an is not meant to be followed by Muslims, because the Qur'an is a clear fully detailed explanation of everything, thus nothing else is needed, and if it is, that would imply something is missing from the Qur'an, thus contradicting those verses. Therefore, according to the Qur'an, anything other than the Qur'an should not be followed.

For example, in 6:38:

There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered.

One interpretation is that the Book here is not in reference to the Qur'an but the preserved tablet that has recorded on it everything that will occur up until the Day of Judgement. This is similar to Surah Hood, ayah 6.

If one takes the Book to refer to the Qur'an, this does not imply that the sunnah is not an authority and obligatory upon Muslims to follow. As we all know, the details concerning the prayer, zakat, fasts etc are not all spelled out, detailed, or explained in the Qur'an. So, in order for this interpretation to be accurate, given the reality of the situation, it must mean the following as ibn al-Jawzi explained it: "It is a general statement that has a particular intent behind it. The meaning therefore is: We have not omitted anything which you would be in need of except that it has been made clear in the book, either by clear text, undetailed statement, or indication." In other words, everything is mentioned in the Book, in either direct detail, or by reference to the source where the necessary detail can be found. Hence the Book itself does not contain details of the prayers, fasts and so forth, but the Book points the believer to where those details can be found: the sunnah of the Prophet :saws:. When understood in this manner, such verses are not an argument against the authority of the sunnah (or hadeeth).

Clearly Allah does not spell out all the details of worship, law and life in the Qur'an itself. Instead, the Qur'an points the believer to all that is needed to be truly guided. Included in this is the sunnah itself as well as other aspects such as contemplating creation and so forth. The Qur'an clarifies all that is needed in one's life and part of what is needed in one's life is adherence to the sunnah of the messenger of Allah :saws:. The Book itself makes this fact abundantly clear with it's numerous verses containing the command to obey the Prophet :saws:

 

[Perseveranze]

(6:114) Shall I look upon anyone apart from Allah for judgement when it is He Who has revealed to you the Book in detail? *81 And those whom We gave the Book (before you) know that this (Book) has been revealed in truth by your Lord. Do not, then, be among the doubters. *82
*81. The implied speaker in this sentence is the Prophet (peace be on him) and the words are addressed to the Muslims. The purpose of the sentence is to impress upon the Muslims that God has elucidated the relevant truths, and has also proclaimed that in their endeavour to make the Truth prevail they will have to follow the path of striving and struggle. The devotees of the Truth should, therefore, resort to those means which human beings normally employ for the successful achievement of their objectives rather than wait for any supernatural intervention that would enable them to achieve their mission without struggle and sacrifice. Moreover, since God Himself had chosen that human effort rather than supernatural intervention should lead to the prevalence of the Truth, who had the power to change this basic fact and bring about the victory of the Truth without any resort to human effort and sacrifice.
*82. This is no mere concoction designed to explain away the current problems. All those versed in the Scriptures, and possessing true understanding of the mission of the Prophets (peace be on them all), will confirm that everything in the Qur'an is perfectly true and in fact constitutes that eternal truth which cannot suffer any change or modification.


Thanks for that website and that explanation of the verses. I really like it and am finding it useful. I pulled the above quote from the same site, but I can't post the link right now as i'm not a full member.

Here is what I don't understand and what I assume Quranists don't understand.

The explanation of the above verse from the Quran (which I also quoted in another post with a different translation) says that the Truth has been clearly elucidated. The other translation says that it has been made simple for us.

If it has been made clear (or simple), then why is the hadith needed to clarify or expand on it?

Furthermore, if God wants us to follow something, why leave it in the hands of man as has happened with hadith?

By following the hadith and sunna as a source of LAW, are we not placing our belief, our trust, and therefore our faith in man as they are the ones who have recorded this (long after it occured) and are now interpreting it for us? It wasn't divinely revealed to them as was the Qur'an to Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

And again, concerning the promise to preserve it. How is the preservation of Sunna and Hadith promised? I know (first hand) that Arabs have an amazing ability to memorize things and it is part of their culture and tradition, but the length of time between when the words were said and when they were finally recorded truly concerns me.

I know people don't like me asking these questions but to be honest, they REALLY bother me. One of the reasons that I always questioned the Bible was because of the corruption that we know has taken place in it. I believe in the Quran wholeheartedly, so it's hard for me to refer back to the Hadith and Sunna without questioning them and their authenticity. Really, if you have any useful links that answer some of these questions, i'd be happy to read them.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

At the moment, I'm kinda busy with assignments etc. But this Monday I'll reply to your questions, especially in regards to hadiths. Hadiths, and its sciences is truly one of the most fascinating topics in Islam, it's one of those things that you have to see it to believe it to truly know that this could only be the work and decree of the Creator.

As Jonathan Brown, one of the leading Western Scholars on Hadith literature (who also reverted to Islam after studying hadiths) said;

“I have never been more impressed with anybody in history in my life than with Muslim ḥadīth scholars. I mean, when I first started studying ḥadīth I was very skeptical, I thought it was all made-up and bogus but the more you study it the more you just appreciate the intense brain power of these people. I mean they memorized thousands and thousands of books and then they were able to recall all the different versions of ḥadīth from these books, and then they were able to analyze them and put them all together and figure-out where they all connect and make judgments about the authenticity of these ḥadīth. I mean even nowadays with electronic databases, and computers and word processing, I have hard time following even their discussions of the ḥadīth - let alone their original mastering that they were drawing on. It's almost unbelievable... It's almost unbelievable, and if you didn't have the books in front of you that they wrote, I wouldn't believe it personally....” - Dr. Jonathan Brown

And trust me, it wasn't just the amazing memory, it was the honesty, the dedication and the commitment to preserve the words of the Prophet Muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). No religion in history has been critical of their literature like the Islamic Hadith scholars would be in deriving the authentic hadiths from the unauthentic ones.

Insha'allah this monday when I get time, I will briefly post why and give you good recommendations to further delve into an excellent topic.