???...Does not compute.
I guess for that to make sense you would have had to know I have only been Muslim for a short period of time.
First of all, I have not seen the movie. Have you? I'd like to know exactly where and how it promotes hatred.
No I have not seen the movie, only read some excerpts from the hearings. The portion I see it promoting hatred is in the use of fear tactics depicting Muslims as being violent and identical to Nazis.
And if it does promote hatred, I'd like to know why you think this is worse than any of the many lines from the Quran ridiculing unbelievers and threatening them with hellfire and torture.
I challenge you to find one line in the Qur'an that ridicules unbelievers. Quite the opposite, you will find many ayyats that instill the protection of the rights of unbelievers and how we are obligated to treat them fairly, honor all contracts and not cheat them in any business transactions.
There are no threats of hellfire, but there are warnings that only one path will lead to Jannah and all other paths lead to hellfire. That is like telling you there are 2 buses at the Bus station one goes to New York and one goes to Paducah. If you want to go to New York, you better get on the New York bus otherwise you are going to spend your vacation in Paducah.
I'd like to know what your standard of free speech is where the one is censored but the other is not—where and how do you draw the line?
The censorship is not because the movie critiques Islam, but that it depicts Muslims as being evil and are out to destroy non-believers. It promotes fear and hatred of Muslims.
(I'd like to hear your answer to the question I posed Prince: do you think the Ku Klux Klan and Neo-Nazi groups should be prosecuted like Wilders is being prosecuted? Should Mein Kampf and other "offensive" books like it be banned?)
No I do not think books like "Mein Kampf" should be banned. There is even a legitimate use for them in sociological studies or can even be of use to those interested in learning of the Nazi era and how it developed. I can even justify people reading it out of curiosity or even to learn how to become a Nazi.
Yes I think hate groups such as the KKK and neo-Nazis should be prosecuted when their actions lead to physical or emotional harm to others. I do not know how familiar you are with either. but, I lived in Louisiana when the KKK was very active, segregation was the law and civil rights extended to whites only. I knew quite a few KKK members and sadly even agreed with some of their beliefs. I also grew up in the WW2 era and remember well when the Nazi concentration camps were found and met survivors who migrated to my home town and listened to their stories of life under Nazism. It is slander and insulting to equate Muslims with Nazis. In Holland people know the facts of life under the Nazis, I see it as especially outrages there for a person to equate any group with Nazis unless the intent is to cause hatred.
Secondly, you draw a false choice between "educational purposes" and "promoting hatred." Obviously, many movies do neither. Wilders' movie may simply be a harsh criticism of Islam and the Quran—and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. After all, the Quran itself is quite harsh in its criticisms.
Harsh criticism is acceptable. Promotion of hatred in the name of criticism is not.
Woodrow, I don't think you're a hypocrite because you let me speak freely on here. In fact I admire you quite a bit for that, and for your general even-handedness and empathy. It is usually very refreshing for me to talk to you on here.
Thank You
With all due respect, though, I do think it's awfully hypocritical to applaud the censorship of Wilders' movie in terms of "infringing upon your rights" in its offensive comparison of the Quran to Mein Kampf. By the same logic, Muslims who compare Zionists to Nazis are "infringing upon Jews' rights"—but I have yet to see you shoot down any posters on here who do so.
You will not see it. I keep my actions against other members private between myself and the member as does the rest of the staff.
If you want to say "This movie should be censored because it insults Islam and I believe insulting Islam should be prohibited!"—then that's fine, just say it.
True, that is one reason. But I am also opposed to any movie that insults any religion. I would be and have been just as adamant over things that insult Judaism and Christianity. However, this movie goes beyond insults, it promotes hatred.
But don't cloak your objection in the rubric of liberal, rights-based morality when it's clear that you do not support this morality when applied to Muslim speech and criticism of rival ideologies. It's a double-standard, and it's hypocrisy.
Very many posts written by my Brothers and sisters in Islam never see the light of day or quickly vanish if they are written with obvious hatred or ridicule. Yes, we do promote Islam, this is an Islamic forum. But, we do not permit the bashing of other member's beliefs or any ridiculing of other members. There is a very thin line that separates heated debate and blatant disrespect. To be honest we do not always see when the line has been crossed unless a member points it out to us.
