Response to a stubborn disbeliever

[Umar001]

So it seems you would create this life, but why create a book? Why not just speak to people's minds? And are you going to create a personal book for everyone?

If that's the case why would you create this life? What would be the purpose behind it?

 

[snakelegs]

ranma,
your last post shows as nothing but little squares on my computer and the one before it has some little squares.
have we been infiltrated by a muslim space alien?

 

[Pygoscelis]

Out of curiousity, I havent followed the discussion dot for dot, so I will just ask, what would you have done, maybe that can be another thread if you want, so we dont go too off topic.

Regards

Eesa

I agree that the Bible, Quran, and other holy books are evidence against themeslves. A God would not need such a text. She could simply make you know what she wants you to know. You would stll have free will how to act with that information.

The message I get from these books is that the Gods of these books don't want you to understand their messages, and enjoy being cryptic, or they simply don't exist and these books are written by men claiming to speak for Gods.

 

[BrentonEccles]

This is really low.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

ranma,
your last post shows as nothing but little squares on my computer and the one before it has some little squares.
have we been infiltrated by a muslim space alien?

haha

let me try to copy & paste the post


Ｗｅｌｌ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｇｏｄ　ａｎ　ａｌｌ　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｈａｖｅ
　ｂｒｏｕｇｈｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｗｒ ｉｔｔｅｎ

　ｍｙ　ｈｏｌｙ　ｂｏｏｋ　ｍｙｓｅｌｆ

　ａｎｄ　ｌｅａｖｅ　ｐｒｏｐｈｅｔｓ　ｏｕｔ　ｏ ｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｌｏｏｐ　”ｔｈｅｙ　ａｌｗａｙｓ　ｉｎｔｅｒｐｒｅｔ　

ｉｔ　ｔｈｅｉｒ　ｏｗｎ　ｗａｙ ”　Ｉ　ａｌｓｏ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｎｏｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｔａｋｅｎ　ｍｏｒｅ　ｔｈａｎ　ａ　ｓｃｏｎｄ　ｔｏ 　ｇｅｔ

　ｉｔ　ｐｕｔ　ｏｕｔ．


Ａｌｓｏ　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｓｉｍｕｔａｎｅｏｕｓｌｙ　ｓｈｏｗ　ｕｐ　ｔｏ　ｅｖｅｒｙｏｎｅ　ａｎｄ 　ｇｉｖｅ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｍｙ　ｔｅｘｔ　ｗｒｉｔｔｅｎ　ａｓ　ａ　ｐｅｒｆｅｃｔ　ｔｒａｎｓｌａｔｉｏ ｎ　ｆｒｏｍ　ｏｎｅ　ｌａｎｇｕａｇｅ　ｔｏ　ａｎｏｔｈｅｒ．　


　Ｔｈｅｓｅ　ｔｅｘｔ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　 ｏｆ　ｃｏｕｒｓｅ　ｂｅ　ｍａｇｉｃａｌ　ｓｏ　ａｎｙｏｎｅ　ｒｅａｄｉｎｇ　ｔｈｅ　ｔｅｘｔ　　ｗ ｏｕｌｄ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｗｈａｔ　ｉ　ｍｅｎｔ　ａｎｄ　ｗａｎｔｅｄ　ｓｏ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ 　ｎｏ　ｎｅｅｄ　ｆｏｒ　ｂｉａｓｅｄ　ｒｅｌｉｇｉｏｕｓ　ｓｃｈｏｌａｒｓ　ｏｒ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｏｔｈ ｅｒ　ｐｏｗｅｒ　ｆｉｇｕｒｅ　ｔｏ　ｔｅｌｌ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｗｈａｔ　ｉ　ｍｅｎｔ．


Ｉ　ａｍ　ｇｏｄ　ａｆｔｅｒ　ａｌｌ　ｓｏ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ　ｐｏｓｓｉｂｌｅ．　　Ａｎｄ 　ｔｈｅ　ｂｅｓｔ　ｐａｒｔ　ｉｓ　ｔｈａｔ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｓｔｉｌｌ　ｈａｖｅ　ｆｒｅ ｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ａｎｄ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｎｏｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｔｏ　ｈａｖｅ　ｆａｉｔｈ　ｉｎ　ｍｅ 　ｓｉｎｃｅ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｈａｖｅ　ｅｖｉｄｅｎｃｅ　ｏｆ　ｍｙ　ｅｘｉｓｔｅｎｃｅ　ａｎ ｄ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ａｌｌ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｅｘａｃｔｌｙ　ｗｈａｔ　ｉ　ｅｘｐｅｃｔｅｄ　ｏｆ　ｔ ｈｅｍ．　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ａｌｓｏ　ａｌｌｏｗ　ｑｕｅｓｔｉｏｎｓ　ａｎｄ　ａｎｓｗｅｒ　ｓｅｓｓｉ ｏｎｓ．　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ　ａ　ｐｅｒｓｏｎａｌ　ｇｏｄ

 

[barney]

I agree that the Bible, Quran, and other holy books are evidence against themeslves. A God would not need such a text. She could simply make you know what she wants you to know. You would stll have free will how to act with that information.

The message I get from these books is that the Gods of these books don't want you to understand their messages, and enjoy being cryptic, or they simply don't exist and these books are written by men claiming to speak for Gods.

Agree totally.
A all powerful omnipresent deity would be perfectly capable of just "letting people know", no confusion, no translation from"perfect arabic" into imperfect portugese or whatever.

I think it's very unlikely that the Gods" dont want us to understand" or "enjoy being cryptic", I mean yeh, that would be a laugh for a while, but the joke would get boring after the first thousand years. The books are written by men , (not women), claiming to speak for God.

The question is why?
I think mostly because the Prophets really truely beleived they were speaking to God. Lots of people think that today. Those that start shouting that they have a message from god are laughed at or sometimes locked up in the lunatic assylum. At worst , we have the Waco style prophets, a prime example of what can happen when prophethood goes unchecked. Kesh, if he had being living in another time and another place would have had a massive following, Why did Kesh do it? Power obviously was the major factor. He was very very rich by the time he was taken down, and wealth and influence would have been major factors. But I think that very few prophets start saying they are having direct links with god for just these reasons. I think they really truely beleive it. They tell people and if theyre delt with in the wrong way....bad things happen. And religions start.
If Joseph Smith had charged into his mates house that morning saying "OMGOMG! Ive just seen gabriel!" and his mate had smacked him hard round the face and said "Chill out man, bad dream...lets get down the pub". Mormanism would have died there and then. No planet Kolob, no funny hats, nobody wasting their time and lives getting submerged in a man's fantasys.

 

[glo]

This is really low.

What do you mean, Brenton?

Also, welcome to LI!! :thankyou:
If you want to tell us a bit about yourself, here is the place to do so.

We don't always agree with each other here (especially in the Comparative Religion and the World Affairs section), and sometimes things get a bit heated ... but on the whole you will find a nice bunch of people here.

Peace

 

[glo]

Agree totally.
A all powerful omnipresent deity would be perfectly capable of just "letting people know", no confusion, no translation from"perfect arabic" into imperfect portugese or whatever.

I think it's very unlikely that the Gods" dont want us to understand" or "enjoy being cryptic", I mean yeh, that would be a laugh for a while, but the joke would get boring after the first thousand years. The books are written by men , (not women), claiming to speak for God.

Hi barney and Pygoscelis (why, oh why did you choose such a complicated forum name??? :rollseyes )

You make a great atheist argument!
I have been asked this question myself, and I have no answer ...

I am looking forward to the replies from other believers ...

Have a good day, you guys!

 

[barney]

Hi barney and Pygoscelis (why, oh why did you choose such a complicated forum name??? :rollseyes )

You make a great atheist argument!

Actually, It's a agnostic arguement.
The lack of reality in established religion, dosn't invalidate the existance of a creator.


Have fun.

 

[ranma1/2]

ranma,
your last post shows as nothing but little squares on my computer and the one before it has some little squares.
have we been infiltrated by a muslim space alien?

its likly because of my japanese pc. Sometimes it uses differnet fonts.

 

[ranma1/2]

So it seems you would create this life, but why create a book? Why not just speak to people's minds? And are you going to create a personal book for everyone?

If that's the case why would you create this life? What would be the purpose behind it?

i was going on the line of a book since thats what your god did.
And as i said im god so i could create a personal book for everyone.

 

[ranma1/2]

This is really low.

greetings , i think you are the first wiccan here.

 

[Muezzin]

This is really low.

Yeah, I'm no good at limbo either.

High jump on the other hand...

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ peace ;


ranma1/2 : Christians have told me the truth...Muslims have told me the truth....Buddhists, Hindus and many others have told me the truth... I still don't know the truth.


---- try hard to find out the Truth.

Don't wait for the last day to beg God that pl. pl. send me again in the earth & surely i will obey u & God will answer , if i send u again , u will do the same mg:



verse of the Day :

If the Truth had been in accord with their desires, truly the heavens and the earth, and all beings therein would have been in confusion and corruption!

Nay, We have sent them their admonition, but they turn away from their admonition

Surah 23. The Believers , verse 71

 

[Umar001]

i was going on the line of a book since thats what your god did.
And as i said im god so i could create a personal book for everyone.

Just wondering, what would you do, not what COULD you do.

And why would you create life in the first place? < Q from before.

 

[ranma1/2]

Salaam/ peace ;




---- try hard to find out the Truth.


verse of the Day :

always search for the truth and be wary of those that say they have it.

 

[ranma1/2]

Just wondering, what would you do, not what COULD you do.

And why would you create life in the first place? < Q from before.

well personally i would not create life just so it could worship me.
If you were ask me why i created you i would say, well i was pretty bored and i figured what the heck. I would also tell you that i have not given your life any meaning and it is for you to make meaning for your own life. Give yourself the meaning you want your life to have.

 

[Umar001]

I guess that the main fundamental difference then.

You could create a book, or show yourself, but if your reason for creation is not the same then there's no point in discussing that basic foundation changes everything.

Someone creates humans to look at Him, so He shows himself to them straight away.

Someone creates humans to be lost, so He never gives them any guidence in any shape or form.

And the list goes on.

 

[ranma1/2]

I guess that the main fundamental difference then.

You could create a book, or show yourself, but if your reason for creation is not the same then there's no point in discussing that basic foundation changes everything.

Someone creates humans to look at Him, so He shows himself to them straight away.

Someone creates humans to be lost, so He never gives them any guidence in any shape or form.

And the list goes on.

Well im sure you dont know why god created us.
But regardless of why. If it was your gods intention to let us know he existgs he has as stated done a horribel job at it and If I were in his place or just about anyone, would have done a betterjob.

 

[Umar001]

Well im sure you dont know why god created us.
But regardless of why. If it was your gods intention to let us know he existgs he has as stated done a horribel job at it and If I were in his place or just about anyone, would have done a betterjob.

I believe I do know, He created us to worship Him.