Role model in your community

I disagree with you. Even my wife does not know what I did. You have not met me before and do not know who I am, even my name. I mentioned it in order to show that many (if not all) Christians including myself care about Muslims as fellow human beings, not by word, but by action. That is all I meant.


It isn't about sharing the name, it is about sharing what you perceive to be good for a particular purpose and let's face it, you are advertising for a reason!

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1380152 said:



It isn't about sharing the name, it is about sharing what you perceive to be good for a particular purpose and let's face it, you are advertising for a reason!

all the best


I meant what I meant. Nobody including even my wife knows what I did for Pakistani people. Nobody in this forum knows who I am. I mentioned it in order not to get praise from the readers, but to tell them that many Christians including myself regard Pakistani people as our fellow human beings, whom we need to love and take care of. If you do not believe me, it is your problem. I hope some readers take what I said as it is.
 
I meant what I meant. Nobody including even my wife knows what I did for Pakistani people. Nobody in this forum knows who I am. I mentioned it in order not to get praise from the readers, but to tell them that many Christians including myself regard Pakistani people as our fellow human beings, whom we need to love and take care of. If you do not believe me, it is your problem. I hope some readers take what I said as it is.


what are you hoping for from 'some readers'? lol The more nonchalant you make it, the tighter that noose gets..

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1380054 said:


That is the christian definition of the holy spirit -- the christian understanding and definition of this middle eastern religion is quite farcical for the rest of us.. further I'd truly recommend if you hear voices telling you to behave a certain way that you seek medical attention!


Are you also saying that Abraham and Moses needed to seek medical attention?
 
:sl:

Are you also saying that Abraham and Moses needed to seek medical attention?

They didn't hear voices inside themselves; they were given revelations. Sneaky whispering is the work of the shayateen.

23:97-98
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And say, "My Lord, I seek refuge in You from the incitements of the devils,
And I seek refuge in You, my Lord , lest they be present with me."


114:1-6
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Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
The Sovereign of mankind.
The God of mankind,
From the evil of the retreating whisperer -
Who whispers into the hearts of mankind -
From among the jinn and mankind."

:wa:
 
Are you also saying that Abraham and Moses needed to seek medical attention?

you are not Abraham nor Moses, and frankly no modern day christian is.. the idea that you would fancy yourself one is more absurd than anything else you have written.. just when we thought you couldn't get any worse!

Do seek help.

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1380893 said:


you are not Abraham nor Moses, and frankly no modern day christian is.. the idea that you would fancy yourself one is more absurd than anything else you have written.. just when we thought you couldn't get any worse!

Do seek help.

all the best

Of course I am not Abraham or Moses. But “unfortunately” from your perspective, we Christians enjoy the same quality of spiritual relation with God through Jesus as Abraham and Moses did in the past. Because the barrier between God and human beings was broken by the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, the broken relation with God was finally restored to the level of intimacy to Christians. The almighty God has become our Friend and Lover, not just our Master.

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. (Matthew 13:16-17) Here many prophets and righteous people include Abraham and Moses.
 
Because the barrier between God and human beings was broken by the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, the broken relation with God was finally restored to the level of intimacy to Christians.

And how did the "sacrificial death" of Isa (pbuh) restore this "broken realtionship"?
And how can the barrier between God and mankind be broken when God is omniscient?

Of course I am not Abraham or Moses. But “unfortunately” from your perspective, we Christians enjoy the same quality of spiritual relation with God through Jesus as Abraham and Moses did in the past

Why must you go thru Isa (pbuh) who is man (he was a Prophet of God but still a man nonetheless which meant he probably made mistakes) and not go directly to God who is all knowing and does not make mistakes?

Would you not want to go to God directly like Isa, Moses, and Abraham did? Doesn't that make more sense?
 
Of course I am not Abraham or Moses. But “unfortunately” from your perspective, we Christians enjoy the same quality of spiritual relation with God through Jesus as Abraham and Moses did in the past. Because the barrier between God and human beings was broken by the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, the broken relation with God was finally restored to the level of intimacy to Christians. The almighty God has become our Friend and Lover, not just our Master.

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. (Matthew 13:16-17) Here many prophets and righteous people include Abraham and Moses.


I think you enjoy a special relation with satan and his clan, surely those who feel no need to work on their relationship with god instead taking for granted his death and sin eating can only be allied with the devil. You see and hear nothing for you are both blinded by sin and the complacency of believing that your sins are forgiven for this mangod you worship has eaten your sins for you!

17:81 to top

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And say, "Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart."


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Say, "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?



18:104 to top

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[They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work."

18:105 to top

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Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.


unfortunately for you, your filthy tactics won't work against Muslims.. go find some poor starving people in some desolate part of the world to sell them your dreams and your mangod love!

all the best
 
Because the barrier between God and human beings was broken by the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, the broken relation with God was finally restored to the level of intimacy to Christians.

There was never a barrier between God and human beings. God has always been accessible to all.

Mankind's relationship with God has never been broken. A human still has the relationship of the created in relation to the Creator, of the slave (even disobedient slave) in relation to the Master, even if he rejects God's existence.

we Christians enjoy the same quality of spiritual relation with God through Jesus as Abraham and Moses did in the past

Abraham and Moses (peace be upon them both) didn't go through Jesus (peace be upon him), or through anyone else, and neither do we. We approach and pray to God directly, like they did.

Peace.
 


There was never a barrier between God and human beings. God has always been accessible to all.

Mankind's relationship with God has never been broken. A human still has the relationship of the created in relation to the Creator, of the slave (even disobedient slave) in relation to the Master, even if he rejects God's existence.



Abraham and Moses (peace be upon them both) didn't go through Jesus (peace be upon him), or through anyone else, and neither do we. We approach and pray to God directly, like they did.

Peace.

I don't understand why Christians create such impossible obstacles where they end up venerating saints even for prostitutes or such convoluted dogmas and then conclude it with something as anticlimactic as a belief in an illogical impossibility thereby extricating themselves from their responsibilities toward God, toward man or even the world they find themselves in and to top it all off can't seem to reconcile what they parrot with what actually exists in their books so they'd rather not address it all together. And for some reason are so offended that no one in this world is lapping it up!

:w:
 
:sl:

Because the barrier between God and human beings was broken by the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, the broken relation with God was finally restored to the level of intimacy to Christians.

God isn't held back by any "barriers"; He is omnipotent. Beware of any satanic philosophy telling you that God is limited by barriers.

(57:13) On the Day when the hypocrites men and women will say to the believers: "Wait for us! Let us get something from your light!" It will be said: "Go back to your rear! Then seek a light!" So a wall will be put up between them, with a gate therein. Inside it will be mercy, and outside it will be torment."
(57:14) (The hypocrites) will call the believers: "Were we not with you?" The believers will reply: "Yes! But you led yourselves into temptations, you looked forward for our destruction; you doubted (in Faith); and you were deceived by false desires, till the Command of Allah came to pass. And the chief deceiver (Satan) deceived you concerning Allah."
(57:15) So today no ransom will be taken from you or from those who disbelieved. Your refuge is the Fire. It is most worthy of you, and wretched is the destination.

:wa:
 


And how did the "sacrificial death" of Isa (pbuh) restore this "broken realtionship"?
And how can the barrier between God and mankind be broken when God is omniscient?



Why must you go thru Isa (pbuh) who is man (he was a Prophet of God but still a man nonetheless which meant he probably made mistakes) and not go directly to God who is all knowing and does not make mistakes?

Would you not want to go to God directly like Isa, Moses, and Abraham did? Doesn't that make more sense?

Have you read Torah and understood its spiritual implication? I hope you have done so. If not, I am afraid you really believe the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God made the covenant with the people of Israel through Moses. A covenant is an agreement between two parties and is considered as broken if one of the parties breaks it. Because God’s covenant is perfect, it is broken even when only one of the laws is not carried out.“‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant (Leviticus 26:14-15) Of course it was broken by our rebellions and sins against God. As a result a barrier was built up between the perfect God and sinful human beings. It is impossible to mix up God and sin.


Some readers asked me this question, “Why do we need an intermediator between God and us? We can directly approach God” Part of the reason for asking this question comes from the fact that people often forget how perfect and holy God is and how sinful and immoral we are. Again have you read the book of Exodus, part of Torah? And the LORD said to Moses, "I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name." Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory." And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen." (Exodus 33:17-23)


This is a very interesting description where God revealed Himself to Moses. No matter how great man Moses was, he could not stand with God because he was still a sinful man. Before the almighty God it does not matter whether there are more good deeds than bad in our life. Any slightest blemish would destroy us before God as you read the above story. Unless the problem of sin is dealt with completely, we could never go before God, thus eternally separated from God. It does not matter how many good works you perform to compensate your past mistakes and sins. This infinite gap between the perfect God and the sinful human beings must be filled by Jesus Christ. If you still believe you do not need the intermediator between God and you, it comes from your ignorance about the infinitely perfect and holy nature of God, and about the sinful and immoral nature of human beings. If you dare to approach God directly, actually you are inviting disaster on yourself. You would be immediately consumed to nothing by the glory of God because there are some sins in you. Even Moses had to hide behind the rock in front of God. Do you think you are more righteous than Moses? This is why Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6).



 
it is broken even when only one of the laws is not carried out.“‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant (Leviticus 26:14-15) Of course it was broken by our rebellions and sins against God. As a result a barrier was built up between the perfect God and sinful human beings. It is impossible to mix up God and sin.

lol
1- why are you breaking God's covenant and not keeping up with his commandments, why are you rebellious and sinful?
and secondly why are things impossible for this God you worship? I mean you have reduced God to the level of an ineffectual man who couldn't pick apostles to shoulder the responsibility after his deah and couldn't save himself after a night of intense prayers, how do you honestly expect him to save you from anything?

and then you quote us mindless passages from a book that isn't even written in the same language as your god spoke. I mean surely you must know that your god was a middle eastern man! I expect him to address us in words that are transcendent and in his own words not the dreams of John or Thomas or jupiter..

have a wonderful day!
 
I am trying to go back to the title of this thread.

truthfinder in previous posts have endlessly espoused mother teresa as his role model in his community.

For me, my role model is of course prophet Muhammad SAW, but keeping with contemporary example which truth finder seems interested in, I offer my own mother as a role model.

There are similarities and differences between Mother Teresa and My mother.

Let's have a look at them:

1. Mother teresa was never married and stayed single all her life

1. My mother married, sacrificed her life ambition to work from home and raised her children (4), managed family finances and household affairs from nothing. When my father died when her children were all still in school, she worked extra hard to be able to send her children to school and all have graduated from the best universities in Indonesia, and a couple even went abroad.

2. Mother teresa helped the poor and the needy and the sick and the orphans and she had orphanages.

2. My mother, in addition to her responsibilities in the family and raising children by herself, has also always been involved and very active in many social organizations and undertakings. She always donated to the neighborhood poor, she served as the neighborhood community chief, she is active in helping quite a few orphanages and she always encourages all of us to help those orphanages.

3. Mother teresa prayed to jesus and mary

3. My mother performed daily shalah, five times a day EVERY DAY, without fail, worshipping the ONE GOD SWT. She also frequently wakes up in the middle of the night, take wudoo (ablution) and perform the night shalah and make supplications to GOD SWT. She also fast during the month of ramadan, and she often do optional monday/thursday fastings.

4. Mother teresa was extremely famous and was in the world news for decades. She also received nobel peace prize. Catholic church has beatified her and intend to make her a saint.

4. My mother is not famous at all, but she has many many friends. And she does not even know that I am typing all the good things the she has done. As the case with many pious and good muslims, she does not like to advertise her good deeds because she is afraid of riya' and she wants to keep her intention pure.

5. After her death, many people prayed to mother teresa, asking for intercessions and many other things because she is "beatified" and will be made a saint (or maybe she is a saint already? it is hard to keep up with thousands of saints)

5. My mother is still alive, but when she dies, many people, or at the very least her own children will keep asking God SWT to forgive her and raise her status in the hereafter InshaAllah.
 
That is so beautiful br. Naidamar.. masha'Allah.. I have learned early on after posting several stories of sacrifices provided by Muslims toward others in one case the good Samaritan even ended up in the hospital that our new evangie has no interest in such stories.. he has one interest.. can you guess what it is? he's been shoving it down our throats with each subsequent post..
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and if it sounds and looks awfully familiar, it is because they are all indoctrinated in the same cesspool.. you'd think they'd teach them some new responses as most assuredly folks will raise their objections to such nonsense!

:w:
 
I am trying to go back to the title of this thread.

truthfinder in previous posts have endlessly espoused mother teresa as his role model in his community.

For me, my role model is of course prophet Muhammad SAW, but keeping with contemporary example which truth finder seems interested in, I offer my own mother as a role model.

There are similarities and differences between Mother Teresa and My mother.

Let's have a look at them:

1. Mother teresa was never married and stayed single all her life

1. My mother married, sacrificed her life ambition to work from home and raised her children (4), managed family finances and household affairs from nothing. When my father died when her children were all still in school, she worked extra hard to be able to send her children to school and all have graduated from the best universities in Indonesia, and a couple even went abroad.

2. Mother teresa helped the poor and the needy and the sick and the orphans and she had orphanages.

2. My mother, in addition to her responsibilities in the family and raising children by herself, has also always been involved and very active in many social organizations and undertakings. She always donated to the neighborhood poor, she served as the neighborhood community chief, she is active in helping quite a few orphanages and she always encourages all of us to help those orphanages.

3. Mother teresa prayed to jesus and mary

3. My mother performed daily shalah, five times a day EVERY DAY, without fail, worshipping the ONE GOD SWT. She also frequently wakes up in the middle of the night, take wudoo (ablution) and perform the night shalah and make supplications to GOD SWT. She also fast during the month of ramadan, and she often do optional monday/thursday fastings.

4. Mother teresa was extremely famous and was in the world news for decades. She also received nobel peace prize. Catholic church has beatified her and intend to make her a saint.

4. My mother is not famous at all, but she has many many friends. And she does not even know that I am typing all the good things the she has done. As the case with many pious and good muslims, she does not like to advertise her good deeds because she is afraid of riya' and she wants to keep her intention pure.

5. After her death, many people prayed to mother teresa, asking for intercessions and many other things because she is "beatified" and will be made a saint (or maybe she is a saint already? it is hard to keep up with thousands of saints)

5. My mother is still alive, but when she dies, many people, or at the very least her own children will keep asking God SWT to forgive her and raise her status in the hereafter InshaAllah.

Thanks for your time making the comparison. I am sure that your mother has devoted her life for her children including you and she deserves due respect for that. In fact all mothers deserve respect for their sacrifice for their children. There is no question about it. But here is the difference between your mother's sacrifice for her children and Teresa's sacrifice for lepers and orphans. Your mother sacrificed for her own children who share her own blood. I am not trying to belittle your mother's sacrifice for her children. But strictly speaking even animals love and sacrifice for their off-springs because it is the basic instinct of living beings.

Now let us look at Mother Teresa and focus on lepers. She spent her life living and eating with lepers. They did not share even a single drop of blood with her and were "others" to her in a sense. She did not just send money to them, but lived, ate and slept together with constant danger that she might get infected with leprosy. As you may know, people with this disease have been rejected by other people in almost all societies, because it has been stigmatized as a curse from God. Thus lepers have suffered from both the pain of the disease itself and the rejection by the society. The Christian man I talked about in the first post also spent his life taking care of lepers who did not share a single drop of blood with him.

These individuals later acknowledged that they had learned the sacrificial love from their Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ died on the cross by shedding his own blood with great pain to pay the penalty for those who did not share a single drop of blood with him! God’s love for us is unconditional in character. “While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). Regardless of whether we will receive or reject his love of forgiveness, whether we will submit to him or not, he first gave us himself as a sacrifice for our sins. This unconditional love motivates our deepest love and submission for God.

Now do you see the difference between your mother’s sacrifice for her own children and Mother Teresa’s sacrifice for lepers?
 
Now do you see the difference between your mother’s sacrifice for her own children and Mother Teresa’s sacrifice for lepers?

The life of mother teresa is extremely well-published, on the other hand, my mum never appeared in any news or media, so I am surprised that you can make such judgement for my mother.

As I said earlier, my mother not only made sacrifice for her own children, throughout the years from the first time I can remember, she has made many many sacrifice to help other people who are not the same blood as hers.

Sister lily has given you some stories about muslims who made sacrifice and helped strangers while endangering their own life.

For one mother teresa who helped the lepers, I can give you many muslims in my country who made sacrifice throughout their life to help the extremely sick (contagious or not), extremely needy, extremely poor.

What are you on going about with mother teresa on and on and on?

Sure, she made sacrifices, but so have many countless people. I am in no way trying to disparage mother teresa, I think what she did was fantastic. But you are trying to espouse her sacrifice as being unique and christian just does not grounded in reality.

You know, I am now wondering what kind of society/community/parish you live in, that you think people doing good deeds and helping others is highly special. It must be an extremely selfish society/community/parish.
 
You know, I am now wondering what kind of society/community/parish you live in, that you think people doing good deeds and helping others is highly special. It must be an extremely selfish society/community/parish.


Christians seem to be motivated by both the need for recognition and constant praise for alleged favors. Sickening isn't it?

:w:
 
I am sensing missionary tactics here, trying to show how christians fast for months long periods - similar to muslims

its not gonna work, besides; apart from Jesus (peace be upon him) being god - him 'dying' for your sins has to be the most absurd christian concept muslims will come across - its complete injustice

Vicarious redemption is my biggest sticking point with Christianity. It is complete injustice as you say. You would not let a man on death row walk if some innocent volunteer wanted to take his place.

I am glad that Islam is not also mired by this particular dogma.
 

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