Shaking Hands!

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

This is an important topic, considering that there are more and more women working alongside men nowadays.

Its certainly not easy for men to be surrounded by young, attractive women, often dressed to impress in a work-place.

Thus, its the duty of men to make even more effort to limit their interactions with ghair women as far as possible - lowering their gazes and ensuring that the rules for physical contact, including hand-shakes, hugs (also a common custom in western culture), etc are set.

And, its the duty of muslim women who find themselves in the work-place to:
- Firstly, try and find careers that would result in the least interaction with men and ideally directed at the needs of women and children.
- Ensure that they are attired in proper hijab.

It often becomes much easier to implement the 'no hand-shake/ hug unless we are married rule' if you are living Islam in every other aspect of your life:

- If your hijab/ attire, your beard (for men : ) ), the manner in which you interact with others......all reflect that of our Nabi (sallahu alaihi wasalam) - the opinion created of you is already that: 'this is a muslim, who takes his/ her religion very seriously'.

One cannot be socialising with the women-folk during cofee time, inviting the secretary for lunch, spending unnecessary periods of time chatting to the opposite gender in seclusion........and then not expect strange looks for refusing to shake their hands.

Live like a muslim at all times.
And everything else would follow pretty easily, insha Allah.

One common question in my place is why female medical students seem like avoid gynacology? . But when when people ask them, they do not answer.

Many muslim women tend to stay away from fields such as obstetrics and gynaecology (also surgery) because of the long hours expected during the training years, and thereafter.

Its difficult for a woman to be away from home for 24-28 hour calls (when training) and with the expectancy to be called out at night for most of your career (while there are methods to induce labour, under natural circumstances, babies enter the world at all hours of the day. Alhamdulillah. : ) )
From this point of view - balancing the number one priority to a woman - her family vs. that of her career becomes quite challenging.


:wa:

 

[White Rose]

falling in love in not a sin... and they married? Masha Allaah, so now they are in a halal relationship? Islam does not stop falling in love,as love is a mercy from Allaah, thecommitting of lust is from shytan,unless the intentions are towards his wife. So if a man falls in love and marries the girl,that is ok, but if a sister likes a boy then its a sin? Im a afraid where sin is concerned, its the same for both parties. They both will suffer the same fate,unless they understand their wrong and repent...yes the children of this ummah are in need for mothers who can give them more time,and also the children of this ummah are in need of characters such as our Prophets. But what do we do? im a believer of 'stay at home mums',only because i believe the importance of little ones having mums full time and mums having great too with the growth of their children.. but this is what i have chosen, you say you are ok with your wife to go to male doctors,but have you ever asked how she would feels..? or are her feelings not to be even considered?

what we are forgetting is that women are human beings too,they are not robots...Again i will say if you had to go to a woman doctor ,not out of choice and you had a personal problem,how would you feel? to be prodded and poked? Believe me you would wish there was a male doc available. by the way lady Khadijah was a very good business women..what you and your wife decide to do is between you. I would suggest both parties before they marry knows what the other intentions/requirements are.

Good post Masha Allah

 

[Asiyah3]

I disagree, women today have chosen haraam professions which muslim women don't need, like Accountants, lawyers, engineers, IT professionals, how does that benefit the muslim ummah or muslim women????

Even if they choose so called halaal professions like teaching or medicine, many of them don't have the right intention anyway. They end up teaching teenage boys, becoming GP's working with and mixing with Ghair Mahram men, first and foremost the universities are a mixed environment and one of the greatest fitnah's of our time. Everyone know what these women do in university well the majority atleast. I know a muslim niqaabi doctor who went to uni with her niqaab, fell in love with a fellow student and married him, so much for intentions?????

This is only the tip of the Ice berg, then you have other complications where she can't take care of her kids because she has a profession and busy schedule so she has to dump them in some creche or daycare. Call me paranoid but I would rather have my wife go to a male doctor once in a while where there really isn't any prolonged chance of fitnah than dump her in some haraam workplace that will destroy her aakhirah and that of her children. The children of this ummah are begging for mothers like Khadijah RA, do you think these western universities are gonna give them that????????


Not a chance........:raging:

Please be careful of making things halal and haram, for that itself is more serious, and dangerous than women getting educated.

 

[Paprika]

Please be careful of making things halal and haram, for that itself is more serious, and dangerous than women getting educated.

So it's perfectly permissible to work in a mixed environment without any need what so ever, pursuing careers and wealth of this world at the detriment of aakhirah when it is clearly known that the Nabi of Allah SAW has said it is better for women to stay at home???

 

[Paprika]

if knowledge was always beneficial then Prophet saw wont tell us to abstain from knowledge which is not beneficial. you cant be more truthful than the Prophet.

salam

So the Prophet Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam asked muslim women to become doctors, engineers and lawyers???
*Shakes head* How the ummah has been brain washed into chasing the wealth of this world, I bet most of these people chasing these worldly degrees can't even read quran properly then they talk about gaining knowledge. Wallahi if you want true knowledge study deen, you will grow old, grey and bent but you will only be scratching the surface........

 

[ardianto]

Brother Paprika,

Ulama need many references from Qur'an, sunnah, ijma, etc, before they say "it's haram" or "it's halal". So, do not too easy to say "haram" or "halal".

 

[Paprika]

Brother Paprika,

Ulama need many references from Qur'an, sunnah, ijma, etc, before they say "it's haram" or "it's halal". So, do not too easy to say "haram" or "halal".

So then if it is not haraam then it must be halaal to work in an unislamic environment without any genuine reason???
All my life I believed that women should stay at home, this is how an Islamic society is built, it's what we have been taught in madressah. A muslim home where there is taqwa, where every person knows his role. Husband goes to work, earns halaal risq, wife stays at home takes care of the kids and the house, teaching them islamic etiquette, a life where there is harmony, barakah and rahmah of Allah. Now these western ideologies come here and tell me women should go to work it's not HARAAM!!!!!

I may not be an Alim, but I am not blind, I know what Nabi Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam has taught and encouraged. I will hold on to these teachings with dear life and will not let anyone tell me otherwise. Send your daughters and wives into these kafir institutions if you so wish, I would rather die than sacrifice this sunnah. I have many shortcomings in me and I accept I am not perfect and do not follow every sunnah, but two wrongs don't make a right. I will not allow my wife or daugthers to end up in the laps of the kufaar showing off their bodies for a mere world gain or promotion.......

 

[Paprika]

falling in love in not a sin...

Really?? So I can fall in love and have a little romance before marriage, maybe even courtship and it's not sin???? I am amazed at the things I hear these days especially coming from muslims.:enough!:

you say you are ok with your wife to go to male doctors,but have you ever asked how she would feels..? or are her feelings not to be even considered?

Nice excuse, but I would rather have her feel awkward a few times in her life going to a male doctor than sacrifice her entire life feeling awkward working with ghair mahram men. Even the ulema have said it is permissible for a woman to see a male doctor if need be, besides there are plenty non muslim women doctors. So why should I sacrifice my wifes or daughters aakhirah so a few women can feel comfortable??? I am sorry but my duty is towards my family first, I am the shepherd of my flock. Do you think any of those muslim women would care if my family was destroyed in making them feel less awkward?? Like hell they won't......

Again i will say if you had to go to a woman doctor ,not out of choice and you had a personal problem,how would you feel? to be prodded and poked? Believe me you would wish there was a male doc available.

Yes I would feel awkward, but am I prepared to sacrifice my aakhirah for a fews moments of comfort and ease??? No, I am not. Would I rush and send my sons to become doctors so a few men won't feel awkward?? No I will not. Even if I do allow them to become doctors it will not be their first priority in life and with men it's different they have to work to earn a living so a medical profession will be just like any other profession.

by the way lady Khadijah was a very good business women..

Prior to the advent of Islam and her marriage to Rasool Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam after which she gave her entire business to him which he eventually ended up giving in charity.

 

[Roasted Cashew]

So why should I sacrifice my wifes or daughters aakhirah so a few women can feel comfortable??? I am sorry but my duty is towards my family first, I am the shepherd of my flock. Do you think any of those muslim women would care if my family was destroyed in making them feel less awkward?? Like hell they won't......

Typical selfish backward thinking....your daughters and wife are not goats..They too have certain feelings and emotions. How about you go for a private part examination to a female doctor.

 

[Paprika]

Typical selfish backward thinking....your daughters and wife are not goats..They too have certain feelings and emotions. How about you go for a private part examination to a female doctor.

Allah forbid but if the need arose and if there are no male doctors I would. The sunnah nowadays seems backwards, nauzubillah.

"Islam began as something strange, and it shall return to being something strange, so give glad tidings to the strangers."

 

[Asiyah3]

So it's perfectly permissible to work in a mixed environment without any need what so ever,

It's just as unacceptable for a man to work in a mixed environment than a woman. It applies both to men and women. Sins are the same size for men and women.

Regarding it's permissibility I haven't said it's halal or haram. I'm not a scholar to give fatwas.

pursuing careers and wealth of this world at the detriment of aakhirah when it is clearly known that the Nabi of Allah SAW has said it is better for women to stay at home???

Some jobs have sins, not all. While some men or women earn haram money, such as those working in a haram bank, many men and women do have halal jobs. Only some jobs are on the risk of our Aakhirah.

For example, I am a dental student. InshaAllah, after I graduate I could work in a school, fixing children's teeth.

Personally, I think it's preferable to stay at home. But I believe a woman's iman and closeness to Allah are much more important things than if she's working or not. Sadly, many women staying home, use a big amount of their time in watching tv series, and other waste.

 

[Asiyah3]

So the Prophet Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam asked muslim women to become doctors, engineers and lawyers???
*Shakes head* How the ummah has been brain washed into chasing the wealth of this world, I bet most of these people chasing these worldly degrees can't even read quran properly then they talk about gaining knowledge. Wallahi if you want true knowledge study deen, you will grow old, grey and bent but you will only be scratching the surface........

"chasing worldly degrees", you say.
I have never ever heard a scholar look down to people's degrees. If we all were to become religious scholars, who would make us our clothes, who would build our houses and take care of our health?

Let's respect each other, and not look down to others. If this is how you look at others, I will not be responding and wasting my time in this thread anymore.

:wa:

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I found this interesting:

I'm sorry, But I don't shake hands!!

Not Just Friends: Protect Your Relationships from Infidelity And Heal the Trauma of Betrayal


"I'm sorry, but I don’t shake hands with members of the opposite sex." This line can be heard coming from Muslims working in office settings everywhere.

Islamic standards of modesty warn against even casual physical contact between unmarried men and women. This, of course, can cause uncomfortable situations in places of business where it is customary to shake hands with colleagues. But Muslims have long known that even casual, seemingly innocuous contact as well as casual behavior between the sexes can lead a person astray into either marital infidelity or inappropriate pre-marital relationships.


Until recently, it seemed that it was only Muslims that felt this way. But in her book, Not Just Friends: Protect Your Relationships From Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal, Shirley Glass gives credence to time-honored Muslim traditions on the issue of inter-gender office relations.


Glass' main thesis is, for all intents and purposes, Islamic in character. She asserts that unguarded, casual office relationships between men and women often lead down a slippery slope towards extra-marital affairs. And according to Glass, this phenomenon does not apply solely to the spouse with a wandering eye; even strong, nurturing marriages can be rocked by office romances.


Glass, who has studied martial infidelity over the last 25 years of her career as a psychotherapist, found that 25 percent of women and 44 percent of men have strayed from their marriages. And although the clich� of the office romance has been around for quite some time, Glass says that the typical lustful physical relationships that often develop are but one aspect of illicit office behavior. For Glass, it is the more personal friendships that develop in the office environment that pose a greater threat to marital stability.


Speaking recently to Connie Chung on CNN, Glass noted, "The crisis is that men and women are working with people that they respect, people that they have intellectual interests with, people that they share excitement over projects, frustration over deadlines. And so the relationship begins as a platonic friendship that's very deep and rich. And what happens is that, over time, they begin to share more and more of their personal lives together."


This type of intimate sharing of personal thoughts and feelings is, Glass asserts, more detrimental to marriage because, unlike casual sexual encounters, these interactions create strong bonds between the people. And once this level of personal intimacy grows, the dreaded sexual affair is just on the horizon.

For Glass, the answer to this problem is to establish what she calls "walls and windows" by which married couples agree to keep emotional distance from people outside the marriage while keeping open channels within the marriage.

The resemblance to Islamic standards of modesty is uncanny, although Glass does fail to call for the true Islamic solution, which erects clear boundaries between the permissible and impermissible.


Glass is just one of several authors to recently take a more conservative track regarding marriage and relationships. And in many instances, themes that have elements of solid Islamic common sense are finding favor over the more liberal trends that have predominated in popular culture.

Shirley Glass

 

[syed_z]

Really?? So I can fall in love and have a little romance before marriage, maybe even courtship and it's not sin???? I am amazed at the things I hear these days especially coming from muslims.

Book 11, Number 2077:

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:


The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you asked a woman in marriage, if he is able to look at what will induce him to marry her, he should do so. He (Jabir) said: I asked a girl in marriage, I used to look at her secretly, until I looked at what induced me to marry her. I, therefore, married her.

(Sunan Abu Dawud)

Liking some one before marriage is a must otherwise you'll break the house as soon as you marry without knowing the person when you find out as soon as you marry that person is completely opposite of how you are. Then there are 2 options either your marriage would end up in divorce or the other person will have to live with you forcibly and that is NOT the concept of marriage in Islam. There has to be harmony.

I do not mean dating like western culture when i say knowing the person.

Dr Zakir Naik said in one of his speeches that Prophet (saw) said "When a man a woman are alone the 3rd among them is Satan." .... therefore in order to avoid Shaytan, a guardian should be allowed to sit in the middle, and then the boy should talk to the girl and should try to figure out whether there does exist some understanding. And if it does then well and good.



And about shaking hands, i am not discussing that because touching a woman before marriage is completely unacceptable.


​

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Really?? So I can fall in love and have a little romance before marriage, maybe even courtship and it's not sin???? I am amazed at the things I hear these days especially coming from muslims.:enough!:

Falling in love and having a romance before marriage are two completely different things. Falling in love is an action of the heart. Romance is an action of the limbs. The Book nor the Messenger (saw) forbade love - it's something the heart does and the heart is not taken into account for what it feels. If you believe otherwise - bring your proof.

 

[Paprika]

Falling in love and having a romance before marriage are two completely different things. Falling in love is an action of the heart. Romance is an action of the limbs. The Book nor the Messenger (saw) forbade love - it's something the heart does and the heart is not taken into account for what it feels. If you believe otherwise - bring your proof.

So you are telling me you can go to uni, see a woman in full niqaab and just fall in love??? with what?? how?? bring your proof.....

 

[Paprika]

"chasing worldly degrees", you say.
I have never ever heard a scholar look down to people's degrees. If we all were to become religious scholars, who would make us our clothes, who would build our houses and take care of our health?

Let's respect each other, and not look down to others. If this is how you look at others, I will not be responding and wasting my time in this thread anymore.

:wa:

If you wanna go work, just go and do it don't justify it by whatever means possible, that is my message, thats all. Muslims today have an inferiority complex, chasing after the kufaar and trying to equal them in their worldly pursuits. We often hear kids saying they wanna be like this soccer player or that kaffir sports star, women who want to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, brothers want to become millionaires, have multiple businesses etc. but how often do you hear a muslim person wants to become pious like the Sahaba RA????

We often just give it lip service thats as far as we will go. We are very easily content with our spirituality but never content with our materiality. What annoys me most is that we belittle the sunnah and totally disregard that which Rasool Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam has said is better for us. Like it is better for women to stay at home, but who needs what's better????

I am equally guilty and I don't think I am better than anyone else, but for the most part I just wish we could accept it and not try to justify it and accept it as our own weakness. If I am a woman and I go to work then I should accept that I have given up what is better for me due to my own human weakness and understanding and not look for every fatwa in the book to make myself feel better than no I am not wrong even though I am doing that which is contrary to the hadith of Rasool Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam.

May Allah Swt guide us. Ameen.

 

[Aprender]

Like it is better for women to stay at home, but who needs what's better????

And if society worked in the way that it did back then perhaps more women would be ABLE to stay at home. We're living in times now where there are converts who are brought up in different societal systems that don't exactly allow for her to stay at home. Many men, Muslim or not, can't even find a job that makes enough to pay the bills and put food on the table for themselves let alone a wife and child.

We're not living in the time of a caliphate and I think it's wrong to overgeneralize and call a woman weak for having to work. Sure, I'd love to get married someday and stay home and bake cookies and smile and if I had children teach them Quran and do whatever else I needed to do with the help of Allah (swt) to be a good Muslim, wife and mother. But I am not married and my entire family is non-Muslim. And that's something that I have to be patient with.

Sometimes life doesn't work out so nicely to where there is a man to take care of our needs in that way but life goes on...

 

[ardianto]

So you are telling me you can go to uni, see a woman in full niqaab and just fall in love??? with what?? how?? bring your proof.....

My cousin studied in another city. He joint a campus Muslim organization where he meet a hijabi sister. They attracted to each other. So, they told the sister wali, told their murabbi ("guide Islamic teacher"), and got married although they were still studied in university. Later, when his wife got pregnant, he back to his city and told his parents that he had been married. ;D

That's happened in middle of 90's. Now they have two daughters, and he become area manager in a big company.

 

[Paprika]

And if society worked in the way that it did back then perhaps more women would be ABLE to stay at home. We're living in times now where there are converts who are brought up in different societal systems that don't exactly allow for her to stay at home. Many men, Muslim or not, can't even find a job that makes enough to pay the bills and put food on the table for themselves let alone a wife and child.

We're not living in the time of a caliphate and I think it's wrong to overgeneralize and call a woman weak for having to work. Sure, I'd love to get married someday and stay home and bake cookies and smile and if I had children teach them Quran and do whatever else I needed to do with the help of Allah (swt) to be a good Muslim, wife and mother. But I am not married and my entire family is non-Muslim. And that's something that I have to be patient with.

Sometimes life doesn't work out so nicely to where there is a man to take care of our needs in that way but life goes on...

Very well I understand that. In cases of NEED I can't agree more. Unfortunately though I know of girls who come from rich families, multi millionairs who are studying and getting into careers and in most of these cases they don't even marry poor so what is there excuse??

Let me tell you this much they are not short of excuses.......ask them for one they will give you ten, but excuses remain just that, poor excuses.