Sharia law - do you really want it?

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Can I suggest as a location for basic details shall we say of the non-Muslim point of view are found in Spencer's book "The truth about Muhammad' ISBN 978-1-59698 as this sets out the arguments and gives the Muslim sources. The main points are set out in Chapter 7 and 8 mainly regarding the Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir.

That is a starting point from my position - I don't think there is any doubt about the facts but there is debate about the rational used by Mohammed. I take the view that Mohammed massacred or deported these Jews and that action was reprehensible and set a tone for killing and conquering for centuries.

Many have proposed to refute this book but none have done it so let see how you wife get's on with it. [/COLOR]


Actually this book has been refuted here, I'd advise you to rummage through Ansar Al 'Adl's old post.. I am quite familiar with the Jackass as he enjoys the term worts and all.. he is as undereducated as the folks who chose to get his information from him!

all the best
 
the last part was me answering my on Question about who is yours and our worst enemy:) and ill pass on reading the book thanks :D i know islam is perfect hope you see it soon :)

Ok, that clears that up. We might begin another thread later looking at what you might mean be 'perfect' and whilst I might agree that Christianity is 'perfect' its not always played out in people lives that way is it?
 
BTW just from a historical perspective I challenge you to prove that Jews existed at all in Yathrib if it weren't for Islamic sources and all secondary sources based on that solely on the opinion of orientalist.. the same ones by the way who would deny that Abraham PBUH ever traveled to Mecca lest it God forbid prove that it was Ishmael who was sacrificed rather than Issac.. They are keen to speak of the assisssantion or 'maltreatment' of Jews, yet have no interest in providing us with how they got there were it not for Abraham (P)? .. Now if you are going to speak about them, then I suggest you read the Islamic perspective so you are not nit picking and coming across like a hypocrite!


all the best
 
Isn't it amazing what the search feature can do for you, especially when you are so learned and can use the search feature!

By Ansar Al Adl!

:sl:
Read the following articles:
http://understanding-islam.com/relat...79&sscatid=149
http://faithfreedom.com/ali_sina_exp...about_jews.htm
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Histo...th-qurayza.htm
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/History/Jews/qurayza.htm

I'll paste the third article since its nice and short:
_______________________

Myths & Facts About the Banu Qurayzah

Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi


Last updated: 14th February 2005


The Christian missionaries have been making a lot of noise about the circumstances surrounding the Banu Qurayzah. It is a wonder that even after countless of explanations on the matter, they still want to play on this old, tired polemic. Regardless, it is about time that an answer is given to checkmate the nonsense surrounding the issue once and for all. Here, we shall attempt to address the myths about the Banu Qurayzah and establish the real facts, as follows.

1. MYTH:

The Banu Qurayza are innocent victims who perished under the sword of Muhammad(P)

FACT:

Not true at all. On the contrary, the Banu Qurayzah prior to the incident of their so-called "massacre" attempted to betray the Muslims by openly aligning themselves with the Confederate armies (consisting of the pagan Quraysh and their allies) during the beseiging of the city of Madinah, known in history as the "War of the Confederates" (al-Harb al-Adzhaab). This is a significant act of treason, because they had earlier pledged to uphold the Madinan Covenent with the Muslims, which stipulates cooperation and an alliance if the Muslims in Madinah were attacked by a foreign force.

2. MYTH:

The Prophet(P)ordered this punishment of the Banu Qurayza.

FACT:

Wrong. It was a Companion of the Prophet(P) by the name Saad ibn Muaz(R), an Ansar and the ally of the Banu Quraizah, who did that after the Banu Qurayzah leaders met with him and agreed to submit to whatever his judgement would be for their crimes against the Muslims.

3. MYTH:

The "massacre" was ordered on Muhammad's says-so. This is because Muhammad feared the Jews and recognised that they were a threat to his political dominance.

FACT:

The claim is of no substance apart from being a blasphemous lie. It is clear that Saad ibn Muaz(R) have administered the punishment in accordance with Jewish law as found in the Torah. The law is:

"When the Lord thy God hath delivered it unto thy hands, thou shalt smite every male therein with the edge of the sword: but the women, and the little ones and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself." (Deuteronomy 20:12)

It is therefore clear that Muslims are not to be blamed for administering a Law that is found within the Jewish scripture itself upon the Jews who had earlier agreed to submit to Saad ibn Muaz's judgement.

4. MYTH:

The Prophet(P) allowed this Law to be passed because he was inhuman and unmerciful.

FACT:

The reason why the Prophet(P) allowed judgement according to Jewish law was because the Banu Qurayzah were Jews, and in their initial agreement with the Prophet(P), they were allowed their own system of law according to the Torah. The Prophet(P) neither influenced the decision nor was he involved in any stage of the decision-making, as the representatives of Banu Qurayzah did not seek his judgement.

And only God knows best!
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Re: Banu Quraiza - 08-20-2005

brother were children and women and aged men killed too?


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Re: The Jews of Medina - 08-13-2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangel
What made Mohammed go after the three clans of Jews in Medina?

Hi,
He didn't just 'go after' the three tribes. When Prophet Muhammad pbuh first came to Madinah (the hijrah) and established the Islamic state he made a covenant and peace agreement with the 3 tribes. They were all to live in peace and defend the city together.
Dr. M. Hamidullah explains the following points:
When the Prophet Mohammed settled down in Medina, he found there complete anarchy, the region having never known before either a State or a king to unite the tribes torn by internecine feuds. In just a few weeks, he succeeded in rallying all the inhabitants of the region into order. He constituted a city state, in which Muslims, Jews, pagan Arabs and also probably a small number of Christians, all entered into a statal organism by means of a social contract. The constitutional law of this first 'Muslim' State - which was the confederacy as a sequence of the multiplicity of the population groups - has come down to us in toto, and we read therein not only in clause 25: "to Muslims their religion, and to Jews their religion," or, "that there would be benevolence and justice," but even the unexpected passage in the same clause 25: "the Jews . . . are a community (in alliance) with - according Ibn Hisham and in the version of Abu-'Ubaid, a community (forming part) of - the believers (i.e., Muslims)." The very fact that, at the time of the constitution of this city-state, the autonomous Jewish villages acceded of their free will to the confederal State, and recognized Muhammad as their supreme political head, implies in our opinion that the non-Muslim subjects possessed the right of votes in the election of the head of the Muslim State, at least in so far as the political life of the country was concerned. (Hamidullah, Introduction to Islam, paragraphs 414-416)
During the life of Prophet Muhammad, there was a Jewish synagogue in Madinah and an educational institute known as Bait Al-Midras. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) preserved and protected both of them.

After the Battle of Badr (2nd year after hijrah) when the Muslims triumphed over the Makkan polytheists, the Jews of Banu Qaynuqa began to display open hostility with the Muslims. When the Prophet Muhammad pbuh went to them an requested them to honor their pact they replied by saying, "Those people with whom you fought were inexperienced and ignorant of the ways of warfare, which allowed you to score an easy victory. If you fight us we would teach you a lesson." They then fortified themselves in their quarters and the Muslims surrounded them and laid siege. None of the other Jewish tribes assisted the tribe of Banu Qaynuqa because they recognized the clear violation of the treaty on the part of the latter. The Banu Qaynuqa tribes realized they couldn't hold up and they surrendered. Instead of taking prisoners and slaves as other contemporary leaders would have done to their vanquished enemies, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh allowed them to take their belongings and leave Madinah.

After the Battle of Uhud (3rd year after hijrah), when the Muslims had a less favorable outcome in their battle with the Makkans, the Jews of Banu Nadeer attempted to take advantage of the Muslim's weakness and assasinate the Prophet Muhammad pbuh when he visited them. The Prophet pbuh escaped and issued a 10-day ultimatum for the tribe of Banu Nadeer to leave Madinah. However, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh even allowed them to retain all their property and appoint agents to look after their farms. The Banu Nadeer however consulted with Abdullah Ibn Ubayy Ibn Salul, the leader of the hypocrites in Madinah. The latter told them that he had 2000 fighters who would assist them against Prophet Muhammad and he also assured them the Ghatafan would come to their aid. The tribe of Banu Nadeer, feeling confident that they could destroy the Muslims, rejected the Prophet's ultimatum and prepared for war. The Muslims laid siege to their quarters during which time they recieved none of the promised support from Abdullah Ibn Ubayy or his allies. After 26 days they surrendered and asked to leave under the original conditions. This was no longer reasonable since they themselves had rejected the Propet's offer. Thus they were to leave with whatever belonging they could take with them, and their land was turned over to the Muslims. And yet, the Prophet still did not enslave them, take them prisoner or spill any blood in this conflict. He was always keen to find a peaceful situation.

In the 5th year after hijrah, an alliance was made between the arab tribes of Ghatafan, the Quraysh of Makkah, the Jews of Khaybar (which included the exiled tribe of Banu Nadeer), the arabs of Sulaym, Asad, Ashja' and Fazarah. Together, this coalition raised a massive army of 10 000 soldiers to march against and annihilate the Muslims once and for all. The Muslims could not face such an immense force and consequently they dug a trenche around the northern part of the city to defend themselves. The coalition forces laid siege to the Muslims in the battle known as Al-Khandaq. The Muslims had only protected the norther part of the city as their allies, the last Jewish tribe called Banu Qurayzah, lay to their south beyond the orchards. However, the coalition forces were able to persuade the Banu Qurayzah to break their treaty with the Muslims and attack them from behind. The Banu Qurayzah had the ability to attack the undefended Muslim city - occupied now only by women and children - from the south.

When rumours spread that Banu Qurayzah had broken their peace treaty with the Prophet Muhamamd pbuh and had joined the coalition of forces surrounding the Muslim city of Madinah, the Prophet pbuh was distressed and sent to them four of his companions as a delegation to request them to honor their treaty. Sa'd ibn Mu'âdh [chief of the 'Aws tribe], Sa'd ibn 'Ubâdah [chief of the khazraj tribe], Abdullah ibn Rawâhah and Khawât ibn Jubayr were the four members of the delegation.

The Banu Qurayzah treated the delegation rudely, disavowed all past treaties with the Prophet, and began to exchange insults with Sa'd ibn 'Ubâdah. Sa'd ibn Mu'âdh interrupted saying that the matter was far too serious than to enter into a petty exchange of insults. He pleaded with the Banu Qurayzah but to no avail; they began to abuse him using the most vulgar and obscene language. Sa'd ibn Mu'âdh said, "You would have been well advised to use better language." With that, they left and conveyed their sad report secretly to the Prophet pbuh to avoid causing more fear to spread in amongst the Muslims who already had an army of 10 000 camped on their doorstep and were now open to attack from the Banu Qurayzah behind them.

The Banu Qurayzah sent some of their fighters in to the undefended city to attack the Muslims. A Muslim woman, Safiyyah bint Abdul-Muttalib, saw one of the Qurayzah warriors creeing about the quarters of the Muslim women. She managed to kill him and the others fled thinking that the Muslims had left men to guard the rear as well. (Ibn Sayyid al-Nâs, 'Uyûn Al-Athar, pp. 89).

After the coalition forces had disbanded, given up the siege and left, the Muslims surrounded the quarters of the Banu Qurayzah and laid siege to them. Those amongst the Banu Qurayzah who had opposed their tribe's violation of the treaty were allowed to leave freely but the remaining warriors were killed. The Muslims had seen how leniency failed with the previous tribes who had gathered up their forces to launch another attack on the Muslims. The Banu Qurayzah had also witnessed this and despite all that they still chose to violate their treaty with the Muslims.

I hope this helps.

Regards

________
 
How is she or me or any Muslim sister treated 'poorly' by modern standards.. care to elaborate?

Comment by Hugo - Dear Grouchy, I did not say you were treated poorly I said Sharia allows that to happen. If I were to elaborate I would say poorly means not being treated in the same way as a man, being subject to your husband or bother etc. You may not think like this and that is absolutely a matter for you but I am absolutely fervent about equality of the sexes.

I don't want you to misunderstand what I am saying here. I have a very large circle of Muslim friends and I have NEVER seen a women mistreated but I have seen them often shall I say in the background when I wanted them in the foreground in employment matters particularly.


I am Arabic and the term isn't an insult, a kaffir is someone who isn't Muslim-- I'd think calling someone a Muslim is an insult to most kaffirs just seeing how random bloggers refer to 'Obama' in a derogatory fashion always using that term--- It depends on your perspective I think!

Comment by Hugo - I bow to your greater knowledge and my Arabic dictionary here but I have mostly understood it like that and I cannot recall hearing is used in my presence. I don't like I must say calling people 'unbelievers' when you mean they are not Muslim.

Reading and befriending qualifies you as knowing more than most? what is the baseline you are starting at, just so we know

Comment by Hugo - its hard to put that into words where one is but I have read the Qu'ran (in English) a number of times, I have a large library of Islamic books by Muslim and non Muslim authors and my Muslim friends often tell me I am expert but although I think I know a lot about texts and teachings I confess I know little about daily practices - that is I know of them but its not an area I would want to debate because how you worship is a matter for you and I would not as a rule want to comment on it. Just to give a picture I have read Spencer and Ibn Warraq at one end and Nawawi's manual at the other.

So I am not a Muslim though that is not from want of study but I am keen on dialogue because often we know so little really about each other.


And if you were truly more read and knowing than most and you simply took the time to browse this forum, you'd have concluded that no one (Muslim) on this board likes the current state in any of the alleged 'Islamic countries' .. thus your preferred adage might just come back and bite you..

all the best..

You might be right but it takes a little while to get used to the type of members and what they know don't know and what 'kind' of Muslim they are - is you see what I mean.

Finally, what I suppose I find the most difficult to understand is te attachment to hadeeth and often (to me) how puerile the arguments to be found there area and often feel a bit sad because authority is prized before reason
 
Can I suggest as a location for basic details shall we say of the non-Muslim point of view are found in Spencer's book "The truth about Muhammad' ISBN 978-1-59698 as this sets out the arguments and gives the Muslim sources. The main points are set out in Chapter 7 and 8 mainly regarding the Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir.

That is a starting point from my position - I don't think there is any doubt about the facts but there is debate about the rational used by Mohammed. I take the view that Mohammed massacred or deported these Jews and that action was reprehensible and set a tone for killing and conquering for centuries.

Many have proposed to refute this book but none have done it so let see how you wife get's on with it. [/COLOR]

do you honestly think that I'll go buy a book, and ask my wife to refute it just because you said it? honestly if all you can do is point to a book and say refute it, there is no basis for a debate.

if you put forward the excerpts of the arguments I may have a go at it.

by the way, I find it funny how you immediately deduced that I was a subjective bigot while One of the books I'm currently reading, "the case for israel" by dershowitz, is right on my table. I'm curious though if you've read any other source than spencer...
 
Comment by Hugo - Dear Grouchy, I did not say you were treated poorly I said Sharia allows that to happen. If I were to elaborate I would say poorly means not being treated in the same way as a man, being subject to your husband or bother etc. You may not think like this and that is absolutely a matter for you but I am absolutely fervent about equality of the sexes.
Again would you like to elaborate? So far I have only had your assertion on the matter.. You mean when my father shells out $250,000 for my medical school education that isn't treating me equally to my brother whose education was only fostered through undergrad then he had to work for the rest? Or when my dad bought me a car while my brother had to work for his? or when my bro. picks me up and drops me off from state to state and for my board exams in philly while no one does the same for him? Yeah I see your point.. I think I am being treated better.. what a shame!

I don't want you to misunderstand what I am saying here. I have a very large circle of Muslim friends and I have NEVER seen a women mistreated but I have seen them often shall I say in the background when I wanted them in the foreground in employment matters particularly.
I have no idea what you are talking about, again so far only your opinion on the matter.. you went around surveying all Muslims to come up with that tight confidence interval?



Comment by Hugo - I bow to your greater knowledge and my Arabic dictionary here but I have mostly understood it like that and I cannot recall hearing is used in my presence. I don't like I must say calling people 'unbelievers' when you mean they are not Muslim.
You have presented yourself on an Islamic forum, and put yourself as a position of authority when it comes to Muslim women, by no means is this casual contact.. You are also displaying the kaffirs point of view.. thus I believe the description of you is very justified in this case!



Comment by Hugo - its hard to put that into words where one is but I have read the Qu'ran (in English) a number of times, I have a large library of Islamic books by Muslim and non Muslim authors and my Muslim friends often tell me I am expert but although I think I know a lot about texts and teachings I confess I know little about daily practices - that is I know of them but its not an area I would want to debate because how you worship is a matter for you and I would not as a rule want to comment on it. Just to give a picture I have read Spencer and Ibn Warraq at one end and Nawawi's manual at the other.
Again you have given us a list of your accolades but on the lowest common denominator it doesn't show-- given that very simple facts about what has in fact took place from the Islamic perspective and the only authority on the matter; given that it is all there was of a people extinct seems to elude you!

What they were doing there is never addressed almost like abiogensis Jews seem to have just sprouted in Yathrib, and just like that while they were enjoying the sun and olive trees Muslims attacked them... Are you here to insult other people's intelligence, even if they weren't remotely read on the matter? Get a clue!

So I am not a Muslim though that is not from want of study but I am keen on dialogue because often we know so little really about each other.
I thought you had all those Muslim pals and a compendium of Muslim text to keep you occupied?




You might be right but it takes a little while to get used to the type of members and what they know don't know and what 'kind' of Muslim they are - is you see what I mean.

Finally, what I suppose I find the most difficult to understand is te attachment to hadeeth and often (to me) how puerile the arguments to be found there area and often feel a bit sad because authority is prized before reason

Well I suppose if you wanted to learn things on an Academic level, you'd not address your q's on a public forum where the first member who has replied to you is 14 years of age. There are multiple Islamic sites from ask the scholar to Islam Q and A to Islam online where you can have scholarly view and explanation .. Islamic Jurisprudence is a science all its own, like going to law or med school, it isn't learned on blogs or from pamphlets.. that is if in fact you'd some scientific integrity when approaching any topic!

all the best
 
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BTW just from a historical perspective I challenge you to prove that Jews existed at all in Yathrib if it weren't for Islamic sources and all secondary sources based on that solely on the opinion of orientalist.. the same ones by the way who would deny that Abraham PBUH ever traveled to Mecca lest it God forbid prove that it was Ishmael who was sacrificed rather than Issac.. They are keen to speak of the assisssantion or 'maltreatment' of Jews, yet have no interest in providing us with how they got there were it not for Abraham (P)? .. Now if you are going to speak about them, then I suggest you read the Islamic perspective so you are not nit picking and coming across like a hypocrite!
all the best

What would satisfy you as proof? Are you saying your own Muslim sources are untrue, Ibn Ishaq reported a falsehood etc with regard to Medina? I cannot work out what you are saying?

Are you saying that orientalists are all liars or racists - have you been reading Edward Said's now discredited book? If you take the absurd position that Muslim sources are always good and non-Muslim sources are always bad you will become a laughingstock.

I know of no source except the Bible that tells us about Abraham and Isaac was not sacrificed so no idea where you argument is going. What Islamic sources are you talking about?
 
What would satisfy you as proof? Are you saying your own Muslim sources are untrue, Ibn Ishaq reported a falsehood etc with regard to Medina? I cannot work out what you are saying?

I need nothing for proof, I have already given you enough to read on the matter. Ibn Ishaq isn't a Muslim scholar, nonetheless no one is denying their presence there, I am merely asking you how they got there, and how that reconciles with your own scriptures which seem to deny that Abraham was ever in that area!

Are you saying that orientalists are all liars or racists - have you been reading Edward Said's now discredited book? If you take the absurd position that Muslim sources are always good and non-Muslim sources are always bad you will become a laughingstock.
I am asking you a simple question. All there was on the matter were Islamic sources, thus I fail to understand where your orientalist pals got their views? care to provide me with the ancient sources of their skewed understanding?

I know of no source except the Bible that tells us about Abraham and Isaac was not sacrificed so no idea where you argument is going. What Islamic sources are you talking about?
Yeah I thought so, if your bible tells you that Abraham didn't go to Yathrib and Mecca and your bible is so credible, by the same token Jews couldn't have been there as we know, Jews don't simply spontaneously generate ex nihilo-- if you follow that logic the rest of what you allege pretty much falls apart!


all the best
 
Again would you like to elaborate? So far I have only had your assertion on the matter.. You mean when my father shells out $250,000 for my medical school education that isn't treating me equally to my brother whose education was only fostered through undergrad then he had to work for the rest? Or when my dad bought me a car while my brother had to work for his? or when my bro. picks me up and drops me off from state to state and for my board exams in philly while no one does the same for him? Yeah I see your point.. I think I am being treated better.. what a shame!
I have no idea what you are talking about, again so far only your opinion on the matter.. you went around surveying all Muslims to come up with that tight confidence interval?

Comment by Hugo - if you persist in not hearing what I am saying then I cannot do much about it. I said Sharia allows you to be treated differently and in my view in an inferior way but I did not say automatically that that would happen. It is NOT my opinion, Sharia states it, its you who is offering an opinion.

You have presented yourself on an Islamic forum, and put yourself as a position of authority when it comes to Muslim women, by no means is this casual contact.. You are also displaying the kaffirs point of view.. thus I believe the description of you is very justified in this case!

Comment by Hugo - what other position should I take but as an unbeliever and I never claimed any authority I just asked a question? Does Sharia discriminate against women or not - that is a simple question?

Again you have given us a list of your accolades but on the lowest common denominator it doesn't show-- given that very simple facts about what has in fact took place from the Islamic perspective and the only authority on the matter; given that it is all there was on the matter of a people extinct seems to elude you!

Comment by Hugo - I cannot follow this rambling. You asked me what was my base and I gave my best answer since you stated no criteria. If you are not satisfied then be more precise - what is you qualification for speaking with authority on Islamic matters? (I have no idea what "..matter of a people extinct seems to elude you!"can possibly mean.

I thought you had all those Muslim pals and a compendium of Muslim text to keep you occupied?

Comment by Hugo - I guess the above line means that you are rather annoyed that I know anything at all but trying to be rude does not become you.

Well I suppose if you wanted to learn things on an Academic level, you'd not address your q's on a public forum where the first member who has replied to you is 14 years of age. There are multiple Islamic sites from ask the scholar to Islam Q and A to Islam online where you can have scholarly view and explanation .. Islamic Jurisprudence is a science all its own, like going to law or med school, it isn't learned on blogs or from pamphlets.. that is if in fact you'd some scientific integrity when approaching any topic!

all the best

Are you saying that Islamic law is beyond anyone? I have seen nothing in this board about age restrictions or subject restrictions so what are you talking about?

Why is it that you think that I have no integrity, why is that you think all my leaning comes from Blogs, you know nothing about my academic background and what do you know about scientific research - are all Muslims dismissive and rude like you?
 
Stop jumping around between present and past incidents. One time you mention the copts in present day egypt, and the other time you mention the ancient jewish tribes.
I am telling you that in present day egypt the copts are not persecuted
 
hmm Ibn Isḥaq isnt he a qadari i wouldnt relay on him ill stick to scholars from Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamma

Ibn Ishaq's biography is the earliest know one so it's importance cannot be underestimated and he is quoted everywhere so if you ignore him you are just being foolish. Will you only look at Sufi historians?
 
Are you saying that Islamic law is beyond anyone? I have seen nothing in this board about age restrictions or subject restrictions so what are you talking about?

Why is it that you think that I have no integrity, why is that you think all my leaning comes from Blogs, you know nothing about my academic background and what do you know about scientific research - are all Muslims dismissive and rude like you?

Now was that not rude of you to say well anyway your academic background on islam is not all that great and that is obvious you lack knowledge of islam and what islam is and the laws of islam and why they are what they are i say this because if it wasnt we wouldnt be talking about this now :D
 
Stop jumping around between present and past incidents. One time you mention the copts in present day egypt, and the other time you mention the ancient jewish tribes. I am telling you that in present day egypt the copts are not persecuted

I did not bring the subject up someone else did. What for you is 'present day' and I think you are deluded if you think that.
 
Ibn Ishaq's biography is the earliest know one so it's importance cannot be underestimated and he is quoted everywhere so if you ignore him you are just being foolish. Will you only look at Sufi historians?

there you go again sufi i dont look at either :) as i said Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamma is the way to go
and as for Ibn Ishaq he reliability is questioned
 
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Comment by Hugo - if you persist in not hearing what I am saying then I cannot do much about it. I said Sharia allows you to be treated differently and in my view in an inferior way but I did not say automatically that that would happen. It is NOT my opinion, Sharia states it, its you who is offering an opinion.
I get tired of repeating myself.. you say 'sharia law is this, sharia law is that, you are not listening to what I am saying'. YOU ARE ASSERTING YOUR OPINION, everyone has an opinion, unless you back yours with some facts, pls don't waste my time I really do have better things to do with my day off!



Comment by Hugo - what other position should I take but as an unbeliever and I never claimed any authority I just asked a question? Does Sharia discriminate against women or not - that is a simple question?
And I believe everyone gave you an affirmative NO-- if you accept it or reject it, it is your own prerogative but don't come and preach to us how we should feel on the matter, least of which given the biblical views on women.. your clerics didn't know whether women had souls or were akin to animals.. I'd start with your core beliefs before I make that leap over..
Comment by Hugo - I cannot follow this rambling. You asked me what was my base and I gave my best answer since you stated no criteria. If you are not satisfied then be more precise - what is you qualification for speaking with authority on Islamic matters? (I have no idea what "..matter of a people extinct seems to elude you!"can possibly mean.
Which part of the 'rambling' was hard for you to understand?
I asked you a simple question, you allege Muslims assassinated in cold blood the Jews, I asked you how the Jews got there to begin with, you tell me IBN ishaq said, well why chose an Islamic source for one part of your post and ignore it for the other which explains exactly what happened to them.. Are you a hypocrite?



Comment by Hugo - I guess the above line means that you are rather annoyed that I know anything at all but trying to be rude does not become you.
No, it means, you contradict yourself and I despise lip service!





Are you saying that Islamic law is beyond anyone? I have seen nothing in this board about age restrictions or subject restrictions so what are you talking about?
Islamic law, like any other law, needs proper schooling -- if you wanted a scholarly reply, you'd either address it on an ask the scholar, or you'd have merely used the search feature as I myself have done a few posts ago to show you that this topic has already been addressed!

Why is it that you think that I have no integrity, why is that you think all my leaning comes from Blogs, you know nothing about my academic background and what do you know about scientific research - are all Muslims dismissive and rude like you?
I know only what you have shared with us here, and what you have shared not only lacks accuracy but also lacks logic and common sense, as I have shown of your understanding of the Jews in Yathrib, did Spencer teach you how the Jews got there in yathrib? If you are going to use an Islamic source to prove they were there, which is in fact what you and he has done, then follow that through... I am not interested in opinions!

all the best
 

I get tired of repeating myself.. you say 'sharia law is this, sharia law is that, you are not listening to what I am saying'. YOU ARE ASSERTING YOUR OPINION, everyone has an opinion, unless you back yours with some facts, pls don't waste my time I really do have better things to do with my day off!



And I believe everyone gave you an affirmative NO-- if you accept it or reject it, it is your own prerogative but don't come and preach to us how we should feel on the matter, least of which given the biblical views on women.. your clerics didn't know whether women had souls or were akin to animals.. I'd start with your core beliefs before I make that leap over..
Which part of the 'rambling' was hard for you to understand?
I asked you a simple question, you allege Muslims assassinated in cold blood the Jews, I asked you how the Jews got there to begin with, you tell me IBN ishaq said, well why chose an Islamic source for one part of your post and ignore it for the other which explains exactly what happened to them.. Are you a hypocrite?



No, it means, you contradict yourself and I despise lip service!






Islamic law, like any other law, needs proper schooling -- if you wanted a scholarly reply, you'd either address it on an ask the scholar, or you'd have merely used the search feature as I myself have done a few posts ago to show you that this topic has already been addressed!

I know only what you have shared with us here, and what you have shared not only lacks accuracy but also lacks logic and common sense, as I have shown of your understanding of the Jews in Yathrib, did Spencer teach you how the Jews got there in yathrib? If you are going to use an Islamic source to prove they were there, which is in fact what you and he has done, then follow that through... I am not interested in opinions!

all the best
mashallah :) :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up
 
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