Sharia law - do you really want it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thinker
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 530
  • Views Views 51K
Status
Not open for further replies.
You'll forgive me as I think the system is designed to leech off hard working tax payers to foster the debauched life style of teenage W hores and the men who bed them under the guise of 'western freedom'
There is no reason for them to end up in the bed of a 14 or a 50 year old if they had proper moral/religious upbringing. And if they feel otherwise financially and sexually ready for that kind of commitment then they should be emancipated and married, paying their debt to society as the rest of folks who wait until they have a career and some money to do so..

As for BCP's that are being handed out to children, well that too is a state decision to try to curb another problem being unwanted pregnancies.
That is actually what happens when you bypass morality and God's law, you tweak from the left and something goes wrong from the right, you tweak right and something goes wrong from the left. Until such a time folks implement sharia3a fully they'll continue to have these problems. Unwanted pregnancies, high STD rates, and all kinds of folks bedding all kinds of folks under whatever age, and leeching off others to support their habits, and I quote the lawyer who defended the incestuous relationship between a brother and sister in Germany who went off to have several kids of incest.. 'who are we to define what a family unit is'!
all the best

Are you claiming that nothing bad gets done in society once Sharia is in place? Interesting but can you show it to be true? Just to be clear, are you advocating the whole of Sharia be implemented in the modern world of one school or another? You rant against Western but are there no prostitutes or homosexuals or child molesters in Saudi Arabia or Iran or any other country?

One final point is that one can prove nothing by arguing from particular examples as you do. There is no logic in saying that "fred is a boy, fred is a bad boy therefore all boys are bad". In this case for every Western example one can find and Eastern one.
 
Are you claiming that nothing bad gets done in society once Sharia is in place?


Wherever there are humans, there will be human error!

Interesting but can you show it to be true?




Just to be clear, are you advocating the whole of Sharia be implemented in the modern world of one school or another?
What does that mean of one school or another?
You rant against Western but are there no prostitutes or homosexuals or child molesters in Saudi Arabia or Iran or any other country?
I am sure there are, but over there it is considered a crime, not something to flaunt with pride in a parade..

One final point is that one can prove nothing by arguing from particular examples as you do. There is no logic in saying that "fred is a boy, fred is a bad boy therefore all boys are bad". In this case for every Western example one can find and Eastern one.
This statement has no relevance whatsoever to the thread or the subject matter of my former posts.. but thanks, I enjoy mindless drivel as much as the next guy, though I prefer mine from Calvin and Hobbes strips!

all the best
 
and it just doesn't stop!

Forks cop arrested in child rape case
FORKS -- A Forks police officer has been arrested for investigation of second-degree rape of a child.

Officer Erik A. Hanson, 33, was arrested Thursday. He posted $5,000 bail Friday, and will be formally charged Tuesday in Clallam County Superior Court.

Acting on a request from Forks Police Chief Mike Powell, the Clallam County Sheriff's Department Criminal Investigations Bureau investigated for three months before the arrest, said Sergeant Lyman Moores of the sheriff's department.

The investigation revealed e-mail and phone correspondence between Hanson and the 12-year-old girl, Moores said.

Powell contacted the sheriff's department in February after the Forks girl said that inappropriate sexual contact had occurred.

"We were advised of the allegations," Moores said. "We then interviewed the victim and conducted the investigation."

Court documents say the alleged crime occurred on Aug. 12 in a secluded area in Forks.

Hanson was serving in Iraq with the National Guard Reserves during the investigation.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/43693357.html

yup, let's protect those kids! but wait...what's this?



BAKERSFIELD, Calif. — A 59-year-old woman is being held in jail on more than $70,000 bail after she allegedly refused to pay a restaurant bill of just more than $20.

Diane Lee Thurley left Marie Callender's on California Avenue on Thursday night without paying, according to Bakersfield police.

An employee told two officers who were on dinner break about the stiff, and the officers followed Thurley outside. Thurley got into her car, locked the doors, started the engine and refused to get out. She then backed out of the parking space and nearly hit one of the officers, police said.

She led police on a slow pursuit down Truxtun Avenue and Coffee Road, never exceeding the speed limit and observing every traffic signal. Officers laid down a spike strip, which Thurley ran over, but she continued to drive for a while with at least one flat tire, police said.

Thurley was arrested on suspicion of felony assault with a deadly weapon on a peace officer/firefighter, misdemeanor reckless driving, misdemeanor obstructing, misdemeanor defrauding an innkeeper, driving while license suspended and evading a peace officer
.

http://www.komonews.com/news/offbeat/43652237.html

i wonder why the chase that "She led police on a slow pursuit down Truxtun Avenue and Coffee Road, never exceeding the speed limit and observing every traffic signal" didn't make breaking news???

rape a kid, $5000 bail, walk out of a restaurant without paying: $70,000 bail!
:rollseyes

nice to see the kuffars have priorities!
 
Salaam

I agree the sititution we are in now is the worst IMO. The other times were better in the sense that we had a center of government - clearly there isnt a centre now expect Nationalism.

peace.
 
Wherever there are humans, there will be human error!
[/LIST]
[*]Abbasid Caliphate (750 - 1258) - Successor of the Umayyad Caliphate
[*]Fatimid Caliphate (910 - 1171)
[*][[Ayyubid empire] (1174 – 1342)
[*][[Mamluk Sultanate ] (1250-1517)
[/LIST]

By Hugo - it does not seem to be an answer to my question to simply list dynasties and in any case it amounts to opinion not fact. One might also cite that all those listed probably had slaves and Dhimmi's, hardly to be praised on that from is it? Also logically, are you arGuing that because one or more dynasties were good then all will be good?

What does that mean of one school or another?

By Hugo - In Islam there are several schools of law and they of course different from one another in many ways. But the question was do YOU want to implement the whole of sharia, do you see it as in no need of modernisation?

I am sure there are, but over there it is considered a crime, not something to flaunt with pride in a parade..

By Hugo - it may be considered a crime 'over there' but that is not really what I asked, my questions was does prostitution or homosexuality exist over there.

This statement has no relevance whatsoever to the thread or the subject matter of my former posts.. but thanks, I enjoy mindless drivel as much as the next guy, though I prefer mine from Calvin and Hobbes strips!

all the best

It's relevance is that unless you understand that one cannot argue from the particular to the Universal your posts have no logic in them. If you regard the rules of logic as drivel then no one can help you.
 
Salaam

I agree the sititution we are in now is the worst IMO. The other times were better in the sense that we had a center of government - clearly there isnt a centre now expect Nationalism.

peace.

The trouble with terms like worst and best is they are very hard to define. Here for example, you define 'had a centre of Government' as meaning best and even that is not all that clear as to what you might mean.

Certainly, I would agree that there have been good times and bad time everywhere but defining what is good for everyone is not a simple black and white issue.

It is tempting to look back at some mostly mythical ideal past but we cannot go there and who would want to and give up penicillin or even your iPod?
 
If its the real deal, sign me up.

As for what is the real deal, let me quote something i found recently on 16th century Ottomans

Although several modern legal codes make reference to domestic violence, Islamic Law (Sharia) addresses it through the concept of darar (harm) that encompasses several types of abuse against a spouse. For example, darar can include the failure of a husband to provide obligatory support (nafaqa) for his wife, which includes food, shelter, and clothing … Darar also includes physical abuse against a spouse. The laws concerning darar maintain that if a woman is harmed in her marriage, she can have it annulled:

“The most important proof needed was the show that the husband had broken the marriage contract or that the marriage caused the woman harm) Sonbol 1996, 281. Physically assaulting a wife violates the marriage contract and is grounds for immediate divorce.



Ottoman law tends to treat cases of darar in accordance with the Sharia; this is reflected in a sixteenth-century fatwa from the Ottoman Seyhulislam (Shaykh of Islam) Ebu su’ud that reads: “Question: Zeyd hurts his wife Hind in many ways. If the qadi (judge) knows about it, is he able to separate Hind from Zeyd? Answer: He is able to prevent his hurting her by whatever means possible. (Imber 1997) [yk: note the Ottoman Shariat, interventionist policy reaffirmed in the 16th century]

Further evidence of Ottoman treatment of darar can be found in studied currently being undertaken using Sharia court records from the Ottoman period. For example Sharia court cases from Aleppo, Syria reflect the ability of women to seek retribution when subjected to abuse. The courts of Aleppo ruled against abusive husbands in several cases of domestic violence. In one court case from May 1687 Fatima bt Hajj Ali filed a lawsuit against her husband testifying that he was abusing her, he had hit her with a stick on her body and on her mouth causing her to bleed. She claimed that he was constantly abusive. In her defense she brought along five witnesses. The court reprimanded the abusive husband, ordering that he be given tazir (discretionary corporal punishment).



Both Sonbol and Largueche problematize the connection between obedience and darar in the modern period as the patriarchal state commingles with the Shariah. These pioneering studies question the notion that modernization is a springboard for progress, as several areas of the law drastically limit the legal options afforded women in earlier periods.

Although in the rubric of Western Law, murdering a wife in a crime of passion has been placed in the same legal category as domestic violence, this is not the case in Islamic Law. There is no mention in the juridical texts of condoned or permissible murder of a wife. However, some modern laws, such as Jordan’s Penal Code (1960) contain clauses for “excuse for murder” or offer reduced sentences for men who murder a wife or female relative suspected of sexual misconduct. Authors such as Amira Sonbol and Lama Abu Odeh have argued that there is a legal connection between “excuse for murder” and “crimes of passion” in the European tradition through the focus on circumstance and the criminal intent of the murderer. Modern legal reforms borrowed from French criminal codes freed the criminal of responsibility so long as the element of surprise was present (Sonbol 2003) In contrast, crimes of passion, prejudicially called “honor crime” in the context of the Islamic world, have mistakenly been associated with Sharia despite their stark connection with tribal law.

ref: Semerdjian, Elyse (2005). Encyclopedia of Women & Islamic Cultures: Family, law, and politics. pub: BRILL Academic Publishers
 

By Hugo - it does not seem to be an answer to my question to simply list dynasties and in any case it amounts to opinion not fact. One might also cite that all those listed probably had slaves and Dhimmi's, hardly to be praised on that from is it? Also logically, are you arGuing that because one or more dynasties were good then all will be good?
Those were Muslim empires that governed under Islamic law.. but Just like with the alleged Jews in Yathrib, I suggest you get your history from someone other than Spencer'' were it NOT FOR THE MUSLIM EMPIRE, SOMEONE LIKE MAIMONIDES WOULDN'T HAVE OTHERWISE GOTTEN AWAY WITH A BOOK Entitled 'ZHAM AWLAD ISHMAEL' while living in their midst. Given how incredibly undereducated you are, I'll not lay out compendiums of history.. I suggest you purchase a book, you may start with for instance 'How the Jews and Muslims built paradise' written by a NON-MUSLIM.. though I personally felt the author being generous by adding the Jews to the title, but meh-- I think they'd have a difficult time conceding that it was just the Muslims!


By Hugo - In Islam there are several schools of law and they of course different from one another in many ways. But the question was do YOU want to implement the whole of sharia, do you see it as in no need of modernisation?
Shari3a law is one!!.. I have already quite explained fiqh as it comes to everyday life and fiqh when it comes to worship in a lay man's manner as I could.. your question is as nonsensical as someone asking, 'will the president rule under Democracy' and then go about ranting about how there are different political parties of democrats and re-puke-cons or conservatives etc!
The governing body will be appointed by the people 'mobaya3a' of folks studied in jurisprudence. Islamic Jurisprudence doesn't come from Spencer's book, or from a pamphlet-- it takes years of study and experience!
Thus you are the last person to allege 'different in many ways' if you make such an assertion, then I'd really love to see your title of respect from the Islamic university that has awarded your degree!



By Hugo - it may be considered a crime 'over there' but that is not really what I asked, my questions was does prostitution or homosexuality exist over there.
And I believe by my answering it is a crime, would elude that it must exist, but scarcely for obvious reasons!
In Saudi Arabia (though not a full shari3a law) there were four reported cases of theft (given the punishment) how much theft occurred in the U.S just last year?




It's relevance is that unless you understand that one cannot argue from the particular to the Universal your posts have no logic in them. If you regard the rules of logic as drivel then no one can help you.

Thankfully, I have exposed you as the purblind fundie that you are-- who flatly refuses to see history as recorded and would rather make up his own; to appease his own religious fervor and impotence, what you are peddling doesn't have a backbone to support itself to save its life ! .. and I think most readers whether members or spider slurps can differentiate between solid research and drivel, oh learned one!

all the best
 
Last edited:
The trouble with terms like worst and best is they are very hard to define. Here for example, you define 'had a centre of Government' as meaning best and even that is not all that clear as to what you might mean.

Certainly, I would agree that there have been good times and bad time everywhere but defining what is good for everyone is not a simple black and white issue.

It is tempting to look back at some mostly mythical ideal past but we cannot go there and who would want to and give up penicillin or even your iPod?

Salaam

You see when I'm on an Islamic forum i dont need to explain good and bad - most of us understand what is good and bad - we dont go down the subjective road - Whats more crazy is you brought up Ipods and penicillin :rollseyes in thread talking about Sharia law - so i wanst talking about everyone now was I. Read my post again when i said the word WE.

If you see history as "mythical past" thats your problem -No need to inforce it on other people.

peace.
 
Last edited:
Amazing, that it was the book of IBN SINA that was used in all major western universities as the bible on Medicine--universities (which by the way were created to mimic) Al -Azhar (the oldest university in the world) -- and that the philosophy of IBN RUSHD was banned by order of the pope in 1210
http://books.google.com/books?id=iI...wcGODQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result


then they come speaking of freedom, civility and progress!
PCN was an accidental find, on moldy old bread hence 'discovery not design'.. but I think the west has benefited from it greatly given how many of them bear only two brain cells held together by a spirochete-- and how useless PCN is today in face of super bugs..
But since we are so backwards, why was Iraq raided for so-called biological warfare?
First we are meek and feeble, but not the case when cave dwellers take over airplanes with plastic knives and go through buildings using invisible airplanes--
then we are ignorant and under-educated but not when we are harboring lab-manufactured biological warfare used for bioterrorism..

can we say pathetic imbeciles, who keep blowing up a balloon filled with holes?

Perhaps someone needs a crash course in the real facts?!
 
Last edited:
If its the real deal, sign me up.

As for what is the real deal, let me quote something i found recently on 16th century Ottomans

Salaam

Intresting post
Thanks for the information
May Allah bless you
peace.
 
http://www.zeenews.com/southasia/2009-03-17/515537news.html

I have formed the view that a lot of Muslims living in the west would like to be governed by sharia law. In fact I seem to recall calls from some Muslims in the UK to be allowed to govern themselves by sharia law. Watching TV this morning and saw a report of the edict issued by the SAWT valley Taliban to judges and lawyers ordering them not to attend court telling them there is no place for them in sharia law (see above link) and I wondered how it would work in a non-tribal society. I can see that the SWAT area (apart from cell phones and kalashnikovs) looks and probably functions pretty much as it did in 7C Mecca and because of that it may be possible to function with sharia law but could it really work in a 21st century society? It starts by stopping the current legal structure (courts, judges etc) because now the local Imam is the judge. Next you scrap the ministry of the interior because the police service or whatever replaces it comes under the direction of the local imam. Now justice is dispensed according to the local Imams interpretation of the sharia law. I can’t believe that any educated 21st century person would want to live under such a nebulous, unstructured and unjust regime. I can’t believe that any educated female Muslim would want to live under a regime that would deny them all the freedoms they enjoy outside of such a system. If there’s anyone out there that would like to live under such a regime I’d love to hear your reasons.

because women in the west are treated with so much more respect!

well except:

Couple found having sex inside dumpster

Talk about getting down and dirty.

On Friday morning, police on Vancouver Island got a call about suspicious activity in a Victoria suburb. When an officer arrived on the scene, he discovered a man and woman having sex in a dumpster, reports CTV News in British Columbia.

"It's 1:45 a.m. so it's dark and he called out to the people in the dumpster and didn't get any response," Police Sgt. John Price told CTV News. "So he went over there with his flashlight and poked his head in at the bottom of the dumpster."

Inside were two people, naked and intertwined. :X

Police arrested the 26-year-old man, who was wanted by another police department. The 30-year-old woman was sent home, CTV News reports.

Price says that in his decades of policing he can't remember ever hearing a story like this.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/43701407.html

'nuff respect, eh?+o(

maybe "in the light" they are treated better!

uh oh:

Woman shoots man after argument on bus

SEATTLE - A woman shot a man at point-blank range in downtown Seattle on Saturday afternoon after he reportedly hassled her aboard a bus and then spat on her, police said.

The man suffered serious injuries in the shooting and was rushed to Harborview Medical Center, according to Seattle police spokeswoman Renee Witt. He sustained one gunshot wound to the chest.

The woman, who is in her 30s, was arrested for investigation of assault and taken into custody without incident by Seattle police.

Officers said the incident took place at about 12:18 p.m. near the intersection of Third Avenue and Seneca Street in the heart of downtown Seattle.

The woman told police the man had been hassling her as they rode the No. 27 Metro bus, which escalated into an argument, Witt said.

The woman exited the bus near Third and Seneca, and the man rushed at her after she got off, said King County Sheriff Transit Police Sgt. Bill Hurley.

The man continued to argue with the woman and harass her. He then spat on her, Witt said.

At that point, the woman pulled out a handgun and allegedly shot him in the chest.

Police quickly arrived at the scene and arrested the woman. The man is undergoing surgery at Harborview.

Witt did not know if the gun used is a legally held weapon.

The No. 27 bus route that the woman and man were on runs from Lake Washington near the Interstate 90 Bridge to downtown Seattle.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/43697092.html

this must "educated" fun! sex in the dumpster, being spat on, what kind of ignorant fool would pass up a chance on that!:rollseyes

edit: my bad, i forgot about the children!

has this ever happened under Shariah:

Teacher sends boy, 5, home with bag of poo
YAKIMA, Wash. -- A 5-year-old student at Apple Valley Elementary in Yakima headed home on the bus with more than books in his backpack. Inside was a smelly package his father never imagined he'd be toting around.

"I'm still kind of in shock over this, because why would somebody do this? It's disgusting!" said the boy's father, who wished to be identified only as "Jason."

Jason says his son's kindergarten teacher had bagged up a piece of human feces and stuck it in his son's backpack. His wife found the stinky mess.

"She found a clear plastic bag with a piece of fecal matter wrapped up in a brown paper towel with the note on it," he said.

The note read, "This little turd was on the floor in my room."

Jason says his son's teacher, Mrs. Graham, called last Friday and said her classroom was "stinky." She asked if the boy could have had an accident.

Jason acknowledged the possibility, as his son had had a couple of accidents in the classroom in the past. He told Mrs. Graham there were extra clothes in his backpack.

Jason never imagined the teacher would send his son home with evidence of his accident.

After his wife found the bagged mess, Jason e-mailed school officials. Days later, he received a response apologizing for the delay in dealing with the issue. On Tuesday, he was still waiting for a chance to speak to school officials about the incident.

"What would have happened if it had stayed in there and she hadn't checked the bag? And other kids were playing on the bus and it got out? And it's a very hazardous thing. It's disgusting!"

The school's superintendent said the boy's teacher and the school principal are being questioned. School officials said they'll meet with Jason and his wife next week.

In the meantime, Jason wants his son placed in a different teacher's classroom for the remainder of the school year.

ahhh, the modern world.....
 
Last edited:
:haha: is it any wonder this site is target for many Bozos?.. we positively emasculate them here .. now if you'll all excuse me, I am going to go be all meek and feeble and wait for my ole man to batter and fry me!
 
:haha: is it any wonder this site is target for many Bozos?.. we positively emasculate them here .. now if you'll all excuse me, I am going to go be all meek and feeble and wait for my ole man to batter and fry me!


I see you are terrified over the admonishment you fear that you will receive from a male administrator for daring to voice your opinion.
 
scaredsadgirl-1.jpg


indeed I am wo wu woe
 
because women in the west are treated with so much more respect!

well except:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/43701407.html

'nuff respect, eh?+o(

maybe "in the light" they are treated better!

uh oh:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/43697092.html

this must "educated" fun! sex in the dumpster, being spat on, what kind of ignorant fool would pass up a chance on that!:rollseyes

edit: my bad, i forgot about the children!

has this ever happened under Shariah:



ahhh, the modern world.....


western freedom is defined by a few things missing in the Muslim world-- dinning on swine, Nascar, and women with 750cc prosthesis :X which ineveitably preceeds a gyrating job at hoo terrrs.. and then cute lampoons of 'towel headed' Muslims bombing their hoo terrrs, as they need to be entertained washing down them pickled pork feet with some beer, while filling out forms for their Roux En Y and chanting 'lawdy lawdy'...

Do you love sterotypes and preconceived prejudices as I do? I can go on forever, I am all for another 31 pages :D

:w:
 
western freedom is defined by a few things missing in the Muslim world-- dinning on swine, Nascar, and women with 750cc prosthesis :X which ineveitably preceeds a gyrating job at hoo terrrs.. and then cute lampoons of 'towel headed' Muslims bombing their hoo terrrs, as they need to be entertained washing down them pickled pork feet with some beer, while filling out forms for their Roux En Y and chanting 'lawdy lawdy'...

Do you love sterotypes and preconceived prejudices as I do? I can go on forever, I am all for another 31 pages :D

:w:

I see that nothing in your attitude as changed while I have been away: insults is all you can think of and example that show things at their worst but none which show what is good. One wonders where you get all this lurid information from - please tell use so we can avoid it
 
I see that nothing in your attitude as changed while I have been away: insults is all you can think of and example that show things at their worst but none which show what is good. One wonders where you get all this lurid information from - please tell use so we can avoid it

Do you have anything of substance to impart as pertains to the topic? No?

If you don't like it here, don't be a member here!

all the best
 
May I offer and example from Islamic Law that may show Islam in practice may be intolerant. I quote from Professor Mohamed Charfi's book "Islam and Liberty" (ISBN 1 84277 511 1). Professor Charfi is a Tunisian Professor of law and was formerly the Minster of Education. He writes at length on pages 51 and 52 about apostasy. I quote:

Apostasy a crime?

"astonishing though it may seem, the ulema had no foundation in the Koran for their invention of this attack on the Freedom of conscience.. indeed, not only does no verse of the Koran suggest even indirectly that there should a crime or penalty; indeed the Holy Book states the exact opposite.

He cites 2:256) which say 'No duress in matters of religion" We could also add verse 29 of the Cave in which God addresses his Prophet as follows: 'Say: "This is the truth from your Lord. Let him who will, believe in it, and him who will deny it"; or verse 99 of the 10th chapter Jonah "Had your Lord pleased, all the people of the earth would have believed in Him, one and all. Would you then force people to have faith?' No amount of looking at the context of these verses will change their plain meaning.

Professor Charfi goes on to say that there is nothing in the hadith except one incident involving a boy of 12 who is reputed to have heard the prophet say 'kill them' about apostate.

This proves to me that Apostasy is NOT a part of Islam and indicates that Sharia by its nature is therefore intolerant at least in this area.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar Threads

Back
Top