Should the Taliban....???

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Are the Taliban the right choice for Afghanistan?


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Skillganon said:
Only if you can show me any state who implements the shariah fully and perfectly. This is not exactly about the Shariah, if it was just that than afghan has already failed by making the latter choice.


Erundar said:

Yes. Do you think that the america is willing to implement the shariah and advise the people to take guidance from the Quran and the sunnah?

As I said aslong as the afghan goverment or the people are willing to implement and desire to implement Islam, and carry out the advice of the Quran than their is no blame on you. Not to mention rejecting the current allies.

Erundar said:
No state has, every dynasty that Islam has built thanks to Allah (swt) had fallen because people had lost there way, but I guess its one of those things in which you have to see to believe.
It is anonymous agreed by majority of the scholars and muslims that the situation we are in is because what we wrought against ourself and by abandoning much of what is in the Quran and the sunnah.


Skillganon said:
Actually the only reason they embraced america is because you was given the choice between the two, and you choose the other because they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya (which is mainly out for their interest not yours), not to mention what[/B] they are doing in other part of the world.
You took the easy way out although it might aswell be more detrimental too the muslims.



Skillganon said:
The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah.

Erundar said:
No one is denying the shariah, again its not shariah in Afghanistan but Tribal laws and customs.

As above in red. You don't have to deny applying and implementing Islam by the mouth for one to deny it.
Just by not desiring/applying Shariah (part of Islam) becomes a denial and rejection of Islam itself.
 
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Yes. Do you think that the america is willing to implement the shariah and advise the people to take guidance from the Quran and the sunnah?


No they are not willing to, I know this, I believe the U.S. government had made a smiliar statement about not allowing the Iraqi's to form a shariah based system.

As I said aslong as the afghan goverment or the people are willing to implement and desire to implement Islam, and carry out the advice of the Quran than their is no blame on you. Not to mention rejecting the current allies.


I too would like for them to Implement Islam and the Sunnah in there government in which many nations can be proud of, but the Talibs were not the ones.


It is anonymous agreed by majority of the scholars and muslims that the situation we are in is because what we wrought against ourself and by abandoning much of what is in the Quran and the sunnah.

Agreed


As above in red. You don't have to deny applying and implementing Islam by the mouth for one to deny it. Just by not desiring/applying Shariah (part of Islam) becomes a denial and rejection of Islam itself.

And you think the Talibs allowed freedom of worship? If you were a Shia or Non-Sunni you either fled to the North or left to Iran. I've given statements and evidence to back up my claim another poster had shown a fatwa condemning them. I have more of a claim then you do right about now, unless you have something else to say in favor for them in which they took the action to do Intentions are one thing, but actions are another.

Again I ask, where is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar"? where is this permissable, where's the justification for this?
 
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No they are not willing to, I know this, I believe the U.S. government had made a smiliar statement about not allowing the Iraqi's to form a shariah based system.


I too would like for them to Implement Islam and the Sunnah in there government in which many nations can be proud of, but the Talibs were not the ones.

Neither is current america or taking those who are open enemy as allies. That is what I said a poor choice, and you do agree above as in your first post.

Skillganon said:
Ultimately yes.
First they come from the counry which is not Islamic. Importantly insulting the ignorance of my parents as a personal jab at me is not our way.

Skillganon said:
It was not my way either, but ...
but is not our way either.

skillganon said:
the only reason they embraced america is because you was given the choice between the two, and you choose the other because they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya (which is mainly out for their interest not yours), not to mention what[/b] they are doing in other part of the world.


This is a statement and was not somekind of Jab at afghan or anything maliciouse intended. This is totally out of observational something similiar that can be observed in the past, and not to bear in mind afghan is the topic of the discussion.

skillganon said:
You said it as if everyone enjoyed it.

No I did not.

Erundar said:
I didn't take the first swing.
and I was not swinging my arm.

Skillganon said:
As above in red. You don't have to deny applying and implementing Islam by the mouth for one to deny it. Just by not desiring/applying Shariah (part of Islam) becomes a denial and rejection of Islam itself.

Erundar said:
And you think the Talibs allowed freedom of worship? If you were a Shia or Non-Sunni you either fled to the North or left to Iran.

Again I ask, where is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar"? where is this permissable, where's the justification for this?

Bro as in red in my previouse post. Please read.

And I was replying as above highlighted blue to this....

Erundar said:
No one is denying the shariah, again its not shariah in Afghanistan but Tribal laws and customs.

No need to bring in how bad is the taliban show in this case.
 
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i voted "no" for the very reasons al_imaan_786 has given. every afghan i have ever talked to, feels the way he does.
sometimes i think people just get reactionary:
u.s. = bad
u.s. = overthrew the taliban
taliban = good.
things are not this simple.
i hope afghanistan will have peace and once again become a truly sovereign nation.
 
there are 3 or 4 different subjects that come from the Infidels in this forum that muslims are arguing for and praising but this is not solid evidence? Something that does not come as a favor is ultimately used as being false, get off your pedestal for a moment, there are numbers call'em.


whats "solid" proof then?

besides taht article came from an Afghan website.

"O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with a news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done." [Al-Hujurat 49:6]

There has been many lies spread by the enemies of Allah so Taliban is discredited and muslims go agiasnt them.
If you want you can also go through this site:
http://news.worldofislam.info/index.php?page=taliban
 
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This is a statement and was not somekind of Jab at afghan or anything maliciouse intended. This is totally out of observational something similiar that can be observed in the past, and not to bear in mind afghan is the topic of the discussion.

The Comment was retracted. Please read.


No I did not.

"they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya"


and I was not swinging my arm.


Its an expression



You don't have to believe what I say which in the matter I really do not care.


Neither do you to I.



Bro, come on, you are trying to tell me what my parents education was and what they knew?

How much do you know about the Talibs? How much do you think of the shariah was in Afghanistan? and how much they knew?



As I said it does not good in persisting in this manner.
Fine.


The statement is their for everyone to see.
I left you a way open, You can retract the statement, press the edit button and delete. So I can do similiar to where I quoted you.

Already done. Please read.
.



No need to bring in how bad is the taliban show in this case.

The Case in point was the Talibs the right choice for Afghanistan I said no for the actions in which they committed, it was all in point within the discussion of this topic.
 
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Achievements of Taliban

The fourth achievement that we have that is surprising to everybody is that we have eradicated 75% of world's opium cultivation. Afghanistan produced 75% of worlds opium. And last year we issued an edict asking the people to stop growing opium, and this year, the United Nations Drug Control Program, UNDCP, and their head, Mr. Barnard F. proudly announced that there was 0% of opium cultivation. Zero, zilch, none at all.


Incidentally this was not good news for UN itself because many of them lost their jobs. In the UNDCP, 700 so called experts were working there and they got their salaries and they never went into Afghanistan. So when we issued this edict, I know that they were not happy. And this year they lost their jobs.
 
U.N. drug control officers: Taliban has nearly wiped out opium production

U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has nearly wiped out opium production in Afghanistan -- once the world's largest producer -- since banning poppy cultivation last summer.

A 12-member team from the U.N. Drug Control Program spent two weeks searching most of the nation's largest opium-producing areas and found so few poppies that they do not expect any opium to come out of Afghanistan this year.

"We are not just guessing. We have seen the proof in the fields," said Bernard Frahi, regional director for the U.N. program in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He laid out photographs of vast tracts of land cultivated with wheat alongside pictures of the same fields taken a year earlier -- a sea of blood-red poppies.

A State Department official said Thursday all the information the United States has received so far indicates the poppy crop had decreased, but he did not believe it was eliminated.

Last year, Afghanistan produced nearly 4,000 tons of opium, about 75 percent of the world's supply, U.N. officials said. Opium -- the milky substance drained from the poppy plant -- is converted into heroin and sold in Europe and North America. The 1999 output was a world record for opium production, the United Nations said -- more than all other countries combined, including the "Golden Triangle," where the borders of Thailand, Laos and Myanmar meet.

Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban's supreme leader, banned poppy growing before the November planting season and augmented it with a religious edict making it contrary to the tenets of Islam.

The Taliban, which has imposed a strict brand of Islam in the 95 percent of Afghanistan it controls, has set fire to heroin laboratories and jailed farmers until they agreed to destroy their poppy crops.

The U.N. surveyors, who completed their search this week, crisscrossed Helmand, Kandahar, Urzgan and Nangarhar provinces and parts of two others -- areas responsible for 86 percent of the opium produced in Afghanistan last year, Frahi said in an interview Wednesday. They covered 80 percent of the land in those provinces that last year had been awash in poppies.

This year they found poppies growing on barely an acre here and there, Frahi said. The rest -- about 175,000 acres -- was clean.

"We have to look at the situation with careful optimism," said Sandro Tucci of the U.N. Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention in Vienna, Austria.

He said indications are that no poppies were planted this season and that, as a result, there hasn't been any production of opium -- but that officials would keep checking.

The State Department counternarcotics official said the department would make its own estimate of the poppy crop. Information received so far suggests there will be a decrease, but how much is not yet clear, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"We do not think by any stretch of the imagination that poppy cultivation in Afghanistan has been eliminated. But we, like the rest of the world, welcome positive news."

The Drug Enforcement Administration declined to comment.

No U.S. government official can enter Afghanistan because of security concerns stemming from the presence of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden.

Poppies are harvested in March and April, which is why the survey was done now. Tucci said it would have been impossible for the poppies to have been harvested already.

The areas searched by the U.N. surveyors are the most fertile lands under Taliban control. Other areas, though they are somewhat fertile, have not traditionally been poppy growing areas and farmers are struggling to raise any crops at all because of severe drought. The rest of the land held by the Taliban is mountainous or desert, where poppies could not grow.

Karim Rahimi, the U.N. drug control liaison in Jalalabad, capital of Nangarhar province, said farmers were growing wheat or onions in fields where they once grew poppies.

"It is amazing, really, when you see the fields that last year were filled with poppies and this year there is wheat," he said.

The Taliban enforced the ban by threatening to arrest village elders and mullahs who allowed poppies to be grown. Taliban soldiers patrolled in trucks armed with rocket-propelled grenade launchers. About 1,000 people in Nangarhar who tried to defy the ban were arrested and jailed until they agreed to destroy their crops.

Signs throughout Nangarhar warn against drug production and use, some calling it an "illicit phenomenon." Another reads: "Be drug free, be happy."

Last year, poppies grew on 12,600 acres of land in Nangarhar province. According to the U.N. survey, poppies were planted on only 17 acres there this season and all were destroyed by the Taliban.

"The Taliban have done their work very seriously," Frahi said.

But the ban has badly hurt farmers in one of the world's poorest countries, shattered by two decades of war and devastated by drought.

Ahmed Rehman, who shares less than three acres in Nangarhar with his three brothers, said the opium he produced last year on part of the land brought him $1,100.

This year, he says, he will be lucky to get $300 for the onions and cattle feed he planted on the entire parcel.

"Life is very bad for me this year," he said. "Last year I was able to buy meat and wheat and now this year there is nothing."

But Rehman said he never considered defying the ban.

"The Taliban were patrolling all the time. Of course I was afraid. I did not want to go to jail and lose my freedom and my dignity," he said, gesturing with dirt-caked hands.

Shams-ul-Haq Sayed, an officer of the Taliban drug control office in Jalalabad, said farmers need international aid.

"This year was the most important for us because growing poppies was part of their culture, and the first years are always the most difficult," he said.

Tucci said discussions are under way on how to help the farmers.

Western diplomats in Pakistan have suggested the Taliban is simply trying to drive up the price of opium they have stockpiled. The State Department official also said Afghanistan could do more by destroying drug stockpiles and heroin labs and arresting producers and traffickers.

Frahi dismissed that as "nonsense" and said it is drug traffickers and shopkeepers who have stockpiles. Two pounds of opium worth $35 last year are now worth as much as $360, he said.

Mullah Amir Mohammed Haqqani, the Taliban's top drug official in Nangarhar, said the ban would remain regardless of whether the Taliban received aid or international recognition.

"It is our decree that there will be no poppy cultivation. It is banned forever in this country," he said. "Whether we get assistance or not, poppy growing will never be allowed again in our country.


JALALABAD, Afghanistan February 15, 2001


American narcotics experts concluded that the taliban wiped out the world's largest opium crop


UNITED NATIONS, May 18 — The first American narcotics experts to go to Afghanistan under Taliban rule have concluded that the movement's ban on opium-poppy cultivation appears to have wiped out the world's largest crop in less than a year, officials said today.

The American findings confirm earlier reports from the United Nations drug control program that Afghanistan, which supplied about three-quarters of the world's opium and most of the heroin reaching Europe, had ended poppy planting in one season.

But the eradication of poppies has come at a terrible cost to farming families, and experts say it will not be known until the fall planting season begins whether the Taliban can continue to enforce it.

"It appears that the ban has taken effect," said Steven Casteel, assistant administrator for intelligence at the Drug Enforcement Administration in Washington.

The findings came in part from a Pakistan-based agent of the administration who was one of the two Americans on the team just returned from eight days in the poppy-growing areas of Afghanistan.



New York Times - 20 May 2001
 
"O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with a news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done." [Al-Hujurat 49:6]

There has been many lies spread by the enemies of Allah so Taliban is discredited and muslims go agiasnt them.
If you want you can also go through this site:
http://news.worldofislam.info/index.php?page=taliban

I already know most of that stuff and the comparisons was to a weak democratic nation with civil unrest and wars between tribal leaders, the taliban brought "peace" becasue they took the majority of the land, I'm talking afterwards besides the weak government was after the fall of the soviets.
 
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http://news.worldofislam.info/index...Taliban has nearly wiped out opium production

^ U.N. drug control officers: Taliban has nearly wiped out opium production

New York Times - 20 May 2001

WAIT WAIT WAIT, why in God's name are you using a Infidel source? retract.

there are 3 or 4 different subjects that come from the Infidels in this forum that muslims are arguing for and praising but this is not solid evidence? Something that does not come as a favor is ultimately used as being false, get off your pedestal for a moment.
:rolleyes:
 
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WAIT WAIT WAIT, why in God's name are you using a Infidel source? retract. :rolleyes:

I take muslims for there word. But some muslims will not take there brothers for there word so we have to prove to them from kaffir source.
 
No I did not.

skillaganon said:
"they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya"
Yes that is alway's what they promise. It is an observational in the past too.

skillganon said:
You don't have to believe what I say which in the matter I really do not care.
Erundar said:
Neither do you to I.
The above statement was in respect to what I said about my parents. Unless you think I am lying.

Erundar said:
How much do you know about the Talibs? How much do you think of the shariah was in Afghanistan? and how much they knew?

So ignorance is the reason for their choice in this case? Still a poor choice.
I do not think the current afghan goverment can plea ignorance.
n.


Skillganon said:
No need to bring in how bad is the taliban show in this case.

Erundar said:
The Case in point was the Talibs the right choice for Afghanistan I said no for the actions in which they committed, it was all in point within the discussion of this topic. You went off about the Americans.
It was not off-topic it was indeed relevant, because it is the choice afghan made.
 
I take muslims for there word. But some muslims will not take there brothers for there word so we have to prove to them from kaffir source.

And I don't? I have a different opinion on a matter to which I know and have family who knows and I'm consider bad?
 
Yes that is alway's what they promise. It is an observational in the past too.

As I read, it was in reference to the whole (afghans), they wanted this dunya.



The above statement was in respect to what I said about my parents. Unless you think I am lying.
I can not call you a blatant liar and I have no say to do so, my comment was in referene to you not having to believe in what I say, as I too you (being for the talibs), but not in reference to the education.



So ignorance is the reason for their choice in this case? Still a poor choice. I do not think the current afghan goverment can plea ignorance.
I'm not pro-afghan government nor am I pro-talibs. What the talibs used was mainly Tribal customs mixed in with shariah. Not "Pure" shariah.

I still feel the Talibs were not the ones, I mean why then would they lose power unless Allah (swt) willed it?
 
I dont know are you?

Assalamu alaikum bro, you do not have to convince wheter the taliban was bad or not. It becomes pointless discussion as they may have been or may have not.
In this matter we only should agree "new" that we carry all our dispute to the Quran and the sunnah, and strive towards applying Islam in all matters.

...and brother Erundar and IslamicBoy, let us stop encouraging each other in this manner.
 
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Fine.

2v9yrn8-2.jpg
 
In this matter we only should agree "new" that we carry all our dispute to the Quran and the sunnah, and strive towards applying Islam in all matters.

...and brother Erundar and IslamicBoy, let us stop encouraging each other in this manner.

:sl:
Yes brother, we should strive towards applying Islam in all matters and that we should stop disputing over this matter. Allah(swt) is the All-Seeing and knows who has done what, where, and how. He will punish the wrong-doers and reward those who strive towards the right path.


SOBHANA RABBEKA RABBIL-IZZATE AMMA YASE-FOON, WA SALAMOON ALAL-MORSALEEN VAL-HAMDO LILLAHE RABBIL ALAMEEN.

Hallowed is thy Lord, the Lord of Majesty, far above from that which they ascribe (unto Him). And peace be upon the prophets. And all praise is God’s, the Lord of the worlds.


:w:
 
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