Sikhism

i see where you are going, and i understand your point of view but yet i see nothing contradicionaty between "wa khattam al nabeen" and Guru Nanak Maharaj being a messenger(not rasool or nabi) of God.
 
I think everyone needs to remember the difference between SatGuru and any prophets that have arrived on this sansaar. Only the True (sat) Guru can give mukhti from the cycle of reincarnation. This no prophet can do.
 
Mohsin said:
I find it sad and disappointing for you to make the staememts as above. Islam was not spread by the sword. Okay in india the mioghuls were corrupt rulers, but in places like Malaysia indonesia and the rest of arabia it was free will and choice. Ask yourself logically, today, look at the masses of epople converting to Islam everyday, where is the sword today? If it isn't needed today where everyone is more forward than they were 1400 years ago, then surely it wasn't needed before
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yeah, agreed by that bro,no war has happent or recorded during the Islamization process to the Malay Archipelago population,though they are plenty of tribe were settled there.The war only happen,when the portugese and spain came to occupied the land and force the local to convert to Christian.

peace
 
starfortress:

u gotta be kiddin me right?

Syria, Egypt, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Turkey, Spain, France, India, Pakistan, Irak, Tunesia, Somalia etc. all of these countries were invaded and conquered by arab rulers, hereby converting the entire nation to Islam.

look at the arabs history and see one country after the other being invaded be the arabs..wah wah Rasool ka kya sunnaht hai...
 
starfortress said:
yeah, agreed by that bro,no war has happent or recorded during the Islamization process to the Malay Archipelago population,though they are plenty of tribe were settled there.The war only happen,when the portugese and spain came to occupied the land and force the local to convert to Christian.

peace
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Why is everyone still going over these issues like a broken record. All the answers to Sikhi were provided by Sikh brothers and sisters on this thread and others. Moreover viable links were provided so Muslim brothers and sisters could further find the answers to their questions. But still the same questions are being asked over and over again along with the same issues.
One benti (request) is that everyone reads over past comments on this and similar topics and access links rather than referring to Dr Z. Naik'S limited and distorted understanding.

In reference to the above quote, this was again debated before and mass forced conversions did happen (in other parts of the world- ie Indian subcontinent). With a bit of research you can discover this yourself.

I'm outta here :thankyou:

bhul chuk maaf
 
Bismillah of the Quran and the Mul Mantra of the Guru Granth Sahib are both dedicated to One Merciful God and are placed at the beginning of every new chapter. In both the nature of God transcends all concepts of time.

Ek Ong Kar - One, Creator

Sat Nam -Truth, Name

Kartaa Purka - Doer of Everything

Nirbahao - Fearless

Nirvair - Revengeless

Akaal Moorat - Undying

Ajoonee - Unborn

Saibhang - Self-Illumined

Gur Prasad - Guru’s Grace

Jap! - Repeat

Aad Sach - In the beginning: Truth

Jugaad Sach -Throughout the ages: Truth

Hai Bhee Sach - Even now: Truth


"God is one. His name is True. He is the Creator. His is without fear. He is inimical to none. His existence is unlimited by time. He is beyond the cycles of birth and death, self existent and can be realized through the grace of the Guru." (Guru Nanak)

Emphasis on the Will of God in Quran is similar to the idea of Hukam in Guru Granth Sahib.

"Everyone is under the Hukam of the Lord; there is none outside it." (Guru Nanak, Japji)

Theory of creation of the world by the mere will of God.

"The night and day, the Lord created, for the world to do the deeds. Through the Guru's instruction, the mind is illuminated and the darkness is dispelled. In His will, He creates all and pervades all the woods and grass blades." (Guru Amar Das, pg. 948)

Encouragement of alms for the needy and poor

Condemnation of idol worship.

Condemnation of asceticism.

Concept of Holy War, but in Sikhism it is only limited to fighting injustice.


Differences

Sikhism does not believe that any Holy Book takes precedence over all others or any religions prophet is the final messenger of God.
"Say not that the Vedas and Muslim books are false. False is he, who reflects not on them." (Bhagat Kabir, Parbhati, pg. 1350)

"The followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You. Uncounted are those who fall at Your Door." (Guru Arjan Dev, pg. 518)

"And many have been orthodox amongst the Muslims, and men of miracles, and Ashvini Kumaras, and the part-incarnations of Vishnu, all O all went the way of death. And many were the prophets and spiritual guides, yea, countless were they: they sprang from the dust and to dust they returned." (Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustati)


Purpose of the Holy Book

"Thus We have revealed the Koran in the Arabic tongue and proclaimed in it warnings and threats so that they may take heed and guard themselves against evil." (20:114 Quran)

"Upon this Plate, three things have been placed: Truth, Contentment and Contemplation. The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of our Lord and Master, has been placed upon it as well; it is the Support of all. One who eats it and enjoys it shall be saved. This thing can never be forsaken; keep this always and forever in your mind. The dark world-ocean is crossed over, by grasping the Feet of the Lord; O Nanak, it is all the extension of God." (Guru Arjan Dev, Mundavanee, pg. 1429)

Sikhism believes that people of different religions are equally capable of achieving salvation while still following their own religion.

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers." (5:49, Quran)

"Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (48:29, Quran)

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful." (9:4, Quran)

"There is a garden, in which so many plants have grown. They bear the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam as their fruit. Consider this, O wise one, by which you may attain the state of Nirvaanaa. All around this garden are pools of poison, but within it is the Ambrosial Nectar, O Siblings of Destiny. There is only one gardener who tends it. He takes care of every leaf and branch. He brings all sorts of plants and plants them there. They all bear fruit - none is without fruit." (Guru Arjan Dev, Asa, pg. 385)

"The temple or the mosque are the same, the Hindu worship or the Musalman prayer are the same; all men are the same; it is through error they appear different. Deities, demons, Yakshas, heavenly singers, Musalmans and Hindus adopt the customary dress of their different countries. All men have the same eyes, the same ears, the same body, the same build, a compound of earth, air, fire, and water. Allah and Abhekh are the same, the Purans and the Quran are the same; they are all alike; it is the one God who created all. The Hindu God and the Muhammadan God are the same; let no man even by mistake suppose there is a difference." (Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustat, pg. 275)

Sri Guru Granth Sahib places greater emphasis on love of God as the main motivation for man rather than fear of God.

"Truly, none will take heed but the wise: those who keep faith with Allah and do not break their pledge; who join together what He has bidden to be united; who fear their Lord and dread the terrors of Judgement-day; who for the sake of Allah endure with fortitude..." (13:18, Quran)

"Allah's reward is great. Therefore fear Him with all your hearts and be attentive, obedient, and charitable. That will be best for you." (64:13, Quran)

"Within my heart, I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and celebrate the Word of the Lord's Shabad. The Lord Himself is pervading and permeating the world; so fall in love with Him!" (Guru Nanak Dev, pg. 790)

"Remembering Him in meditation, one abides in peace; one becomes happy, and suffering is ended. Celebrate, make merry, and sing God's Glories. Forever and ever, surrender to the True Guru." (Guru Arjan Dev, Asa, pg. 386)

Sikhism does not believe in the idea of Gods name being only those authorized in a religious tradition or Holy Book.

"Many are Thy Names and infinite Thine forms and it cannot be told how many merits Thou hast." (Guru Nanak, Asa, pg. 358)

Non-Sikhs are allowed to visit and enter the most sacred shrine of the religion, The Golden Temple.

"Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended" (9:26, Quran)

"Blessed is the place, and blessed are those who dwell there, where God's Name is meditated upon. The sermons and songs of God's praises are sung there and there is nothing but peace, poise and tranquillity." (Guru Arjan Dev, Raga Bilaval, pg. 816)

"If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? …The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives." (Bhagat Kabir, pg. 1349)

Attitude towards women. Sikh women are allowed to lead congregations of men at the temple or administer all religious ceremonies involving either men or women.

"Man have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (4:34, Quran)

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

Sikhism does not believe in fasting or pilgrimages.

"The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord's Name." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 905)

"The pilgrimage to shrines, fasting, cleanliness and self-mortification are not of any avail, nor are the rituals, religious ceremonies and hollow adoration's. Deliverance, O! Nanak! is in the devotional service of God. Through duality the mortal is engrossed in worldliness. (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag, pg. 75)

Sikhism rejects the killing of any animal.

"Yet holding the knife, the world they butcher. Wearing blue the rulers approval they seek; With money derived from mlechhas the Puranas they worship. Goats slaughtered over the unapproved Muslims texts they eat." (Guru Nanak, Raga Asa, pg. 472)


Sikhism rejects the idea of circumcision.

"Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny. If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?" (Bhagat Kabir, Asa, pg. 477)
 
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Greetings,

Another question about your holy book: must there be music played in conjunction with the reading of the book, or can one read it without any other accompaniment?

Peace.
 
Muhammad said:
Greetings,

Another question about your holy book: must there be music played in conjunction with the reading of the book, or can one read it without any other accompaniment?

Peace.
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When the SGGS is read, no insturment is played it is read like you would do the Kuran/Bible. Although if you want to sing the verses that is your choice. That then would be classed as Kirtan!
 
Greetings,

Thanks for the reply. Can I request then, that if you are still planning on providing more links to the SGGS being read, to please try to find some that do not contain music?

Thank you :).
 
Muhammad said:
Greetings,

Thanks for the reply. Can I request then, that if you are still planning on providing more links to the SGGS being read, to please try to find some that do not contain music?

Thank you :).
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Sure :)

This first one is the Jaapji Sahib

English Translation.

http://www.sikhs.org/english/eg1.htm

http://www.ektaone.com/audio/Collec...nem - Gianni Thakur Singh/01 Jap Ji Sahib.mp3

http://www.ektaone.com/audio/index....h+Sukh+(Prayers)/Nitnem+-+Gianni+Thakur+Singh
 
It's a pity that some Sikhs cannot expound their beliefs without misquoting the Qur'an or slandering Islam.
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers." (5:49, Quran)
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Answered:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#19
"Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (48:29, Quran)
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Answered:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#15
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful." (9:4, Quran)
Click to expand...
Answered:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#9

"Man have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (4:34, Quran)
Click to expand...
Answered:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/Women/TafsirAyah34

Why not quote the teachings of Islam properly, and not out of context?

25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

16:125 Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and reason with them in the best manner. Verily your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path and and best knows He as to who are the rightly-guided.

3:159 And it was by God's mercy that you [O Prophet] dealt gently with them. And had you been harsh and hard of heart they would have disbanded from around you. So pardon them, then, and pray that they be forgiven. And take counsel with them in all matters of public concern; then, when you have decided upon a course of action, trust in God: for, verily, God loves those who place their trust in Him.

41:34 The good deed and the evil deed cannot be not equal. Return an evil deed with one that is good. Then he between whom and thyself was mutual enmity shall become as though he were an intimate friend.

3:133-134. And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous, who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon all people - and Allah loves the doers of good.

See also the pages of prophetic teachings on good character and women I have listed on my personal page:
http://www.islamicboard.com/userpage-user49.html
 
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
It's a pity that some Sikhs cannot expound their beliefs without misquoting the Qur'an or slandering Islam.
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Brother i have little knowledge of the Kuran, so forgive me, but these link are googled and i link up the results. But thankyou for correcting me! :)
 
truthseeker666 said:
<<<You guys claim to accept Prophet Muhammed PBUH, am i right? You also accept Qur'an as a divine revelation, am i right? We are saying if you believe Prophet Muhammed PBUH how can you believe Guru Nanek who preached something completely different???
>>>

no where SGGS says that Muhammed was the LAST prophet.

so for me, considering he was a holy and divine man, still considering him the last prophet is not acceptable.

No where SGGS says that Quran was given to Muhammed from God. Can you provide reference to same ?


I am not sure brother how you came to those above conclusions.

Sikhism is a religion on its own.

It disapproves neither of the religions, hinduism, islam, christianity........ it disapproves false rituals and promotes harmonious, simple living while remembering One God.
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Brother firstly can you use the quote tool, it makes it far easier to read, see this post here http://www.islamicboard.com/306399-post17.html. thankyou very much

Okay you say nowhere in SGGS does it say that, but that is not what we are saying. Do you or do you not deny that it says in the SGGS that the Qur'an is not false, ie it is a divine scripture and the word of God. Well in the Qur'an it says Muham,med PBUH is the last messenger, so since Qur'an is not false, and it is the word of God, which SGGS accepts, therefore anything contained within the Qur'an is also true, and it says time and time again Muhammed PBUH is the last messenger sent for thw whole of mankind. See my previous posts where it says this, and i'll add some more here now aswell insha'allah courtesy of Br. Muhammed the Super mod!

5:67 O Messenger. proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.

6:92 And this is a Book which We have sent down, bringing blessings, and confirming (the revelations) which came before it: that thou mayest warn the mother of cities and all around her. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in this (Book), and they are constant in guarding their prayers.

42:7 Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur'an: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire.
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Before the coming of the Gurus, India was filled with discrimination due to a very strong belief in the caste system. Most people believed in making pilgrimages, black magic and other such superstitions. Essentially people had forgotten God. God sent the Sikh Gurus in this world in order to enlighten people and showed them the path to salvation and eternal bliss.
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Ok a couple of problems here brother. Number one you say you respect all religions but then right here you say
Most people believed in making pilgrimages, black magic and other such superstitions. Essentially people had forgotten God
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islams 5th pillar is Hajj, a religious pilgrimage, it is very sacred to us, and muslims always continuously try and make pilgrimage to it, so calling it superstitious is uncalled for if that is what you are referring to. If you are referring to hajj being a superstition, i find it hard to believe Sikhism respects all faiths. If you are not referring to ghajj please clarify your statement, remember Guru nanek also performed Hajj.

Sikhs are told to respect all the other scriptures but we believe in none of them
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Okay now i'm confused, i thought it says in the SGGS Don't call the qur'an false??

Hence Guru Gobind Singh Ji completed the purpose for which he and the nine Gurus before Him were sent: by creating the Sikh religion. God’s purpose of enlightening people was started by sending Guru Nanak Dev Ji in this world, carried on by sending the next eight Gurus and completed by sending Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Hence Sikhism is a religion created by God through the Sikh Gurus.
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What about before Guru Nanek? Humanity has lived for thousands of years before Nanak. Some have been so misguided that surely they would have needed guidance before. of course as muslims we believe God sent other messengers to other nations when they transgressed, but as you said in your post you don't believe in the other religions, so why did God decide to let people go astray for hundreds of thousands of years and all of a sudden send 10 gurus to India of all places?
 
amardeep said:
do you, my brothers and sisters, have any more questions?
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brother i have loads, and yet so far none have been answered.

See my two posts above.

i also want to ask you although you don't claim nanak to be a Nabi or a rasool, you claim him to be someone who God has spoken to or sent revelation to or elevated him with contact from god. All these things would mean another messenegr whether you like it or not, and Muhammed SAW clearly said this will not happen.

Now do you or do you not believe in the prophet Muhammed PBUH and the other prophets PBUT. Now please brothers don't play around with your answer by saying we respect the other prophets bhut don't believe in them. this would clearly mean you think they are all false and all liars, since they all said god created us for the sole purpose of worshipping him and this whole life is a test for the hereafter, where everyone enters either heaven or hell, which completely contradicts sikh teachings

Now what does it mean when it says Don't say the Qur'an is false. Surely that implies it is true in what it says, in which it says it is the word of god, Muhammed PBUH is the last messenger, we are allowed to eat halal meat, we have to do hajj, we have to pray towards ka'bah, and we will have a day of judgement after which we enter Heaven or hell, which all contradict Sikh teachings. so can you please explain the meaning of this verse to me

What about the people before the Gurus, if you don't believe in the previous messengers and other religions why did god allow the rest of his creation to be misguided for thousands of years and then finally send the gurus to india?
 
Mohsin said:
Ok a couple of problems here brother. Number one you say you respect all religions but then right here you say


islams 5th pillar is Hajj, a religious pilgrimage, it is very sacred to us, and muslims always continuously try and make pilgrimage to it, so calling it superstitious is uncalled for if that is what you are referring to. If you are referring to hajj being a superstition, i find it hard to believe Sikhism respects all faiths. If you are not referring to ghajj please clarify your statement, remember Guru nanek also performed Hajj
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I'm talking about Hinduism/Islam in general perhaps i should have not mixed the superstiton etc - But it was appropriate as they main reason for Sikhi was that these two beliefs were in turmoil!
 
Mohsin said:
What about before Guru Nanek? Humanity has lived for thousands of years before Nanak. Some have been so misguided that surely they would have needed guidance before. of course as muslims we believe God sent other messengers to other nations when they transgressed, but as you said in your post you don't believe in the other religions, so why did God decide to let people go astray for hundreds of thousands of years and all of a sudden send 10 gurus to India of all places?
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How many years afer Judaism did islam come into being?

How many years after christianity did islam come into being?

Your question is pointless it means nothing brother!

God does as he feels.


jo tis bhaavai so-ee karsee fir hukam na karnaa jaa-ee.

He does whatever He pleases. No one can issue any order to Him(Guru Granth Ji)

This is all you need to know on this! Unless you believe Allah is incapable of creating anything other than islam? :)
 
Mohsin said:
brother i have loads, and yet so far none have been answered.

See my two posts above.

i also want to ask you although you don't claim nanak to be a Nabi or a rasool, you claim him to be someone who God has spoken to or sent revelation to or elevated him with contact from god. All these things would mean another messenegr whether you like it or not, and Muhammed SAW clearly said this will not happen.

Now do you or do you not believe in the prophet Muhammed PBUH and the other prophets PBUT. Now please brothers don't play around with your answer by saying we respect the other prophets bhut don't believe in them. this would clearly mean you think they are all false and all liars, since they all said god created us for the sole purpose of worshipping him and this whole life is a test for the hereafter, where everyone enters either heaven or hell, which completely contradicts sikh teachings

Now what does it mean when it says Don't say the Qur'an is false. Surely that implies it is true in what it says, in which it says it is the word of god, Muhammed PBUH is the last messenger, we are allowed to eat halal meat, we have to do hajj, we have to pray towards ka'bah, and we will have a day of judgement after which we enter Heaven or hell, which all contradict Sikh teachings. so can you please explain the meaning of this verse to me

What about the people before the Gurus, if you don't believe in the previous messengers and other religions why did god allow the rest of his creation to be misguided for thousands of years and then finally send the gurus to india?
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A Sikh does not exclude or condemn any religion. He does not believe that only he deserves heaven and all others are going to burn in hell, etc. We are all children of the same God. A Sikh respects everyone's religious sentiment and freedom to choose their own way to Truth. He believes that all religions originally lead to the same truth if we simply understood and followed the real teaching correctly.

The Sikh scripture, Guru Granth Sahib, contains authentic Gurbani from Saints of diverse religious origins. The Gurus also rejected many writings alleged to be of the same Saints because they did not meet the criteria to be worshipped as Gurbani. They included all Gurbani they could find, regardless of its cultural or religious origin. Though the Sikhs are the custodians of Gurbani, the Gurus addressed it to people of all faiths. Unlike some religious writings, Gurbani is not a history or prediction, related to some nation, etc. It is God's truth written in verse. It is for everyone. God put you in your religion for a special purpose. You do not need to convert in order to enjoy, understand, and take advantage of the Sikh Gurus' teachings. For example, anyone can learn to be always mentally aware of a unity (God) being present inside everyone.
 
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