Sikhism

AvarAllahNoor said:
And you say from the same religion, but Christainity Judaism isn't the same as Islam, if it was, would the later not be all jews?
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You're right, its not the same as islam, and nowhere did i say it was :? :?

Allah SWT always sent prophets who believed in him and followed his will, ie they were all Muslims. all of one religion. we don't believe Moses or Jesus were jews, they were all muslims

:w:
 
Mohsin said:
You're right, its not the same as islam, and nowhere did i say it was :? :?

Allah SWT always sent prophets who believed in him and followed his will, ie they were all Muslims. all of one religion. we don't believe Moses or Jesus were jews, they were all muslims

:w:
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That makes no sense, Jews were here long before muslims, so who did Moses or Jesus represent? And as you came after, would that not mean muslims *Islam* was the breakaway group?

'we don't believe Moses or Jesus were jews, they were all muslims
' why and what evidence from the QURAN do you have? Not personal opinion!
 
Thats not a personal opinion lol. We believe that all the previous Prophets(peace be upon them all) brought the same message.
Just like Jesus(pbuh) never called himself a Christian.
 
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Hallo Bhaii

According to the Islamic creed, the essence of all the prophets is to massages what Islam call for,"worshipping God alone and rejecting false deities".All of them called for what Islam calls for and the message of Islam resembles the messages of all previous prophets of God.

All previous prophets(before Muhammad pbuh) were sent to specific nations,while Muhammad pbuh was sent to all of mankind.He brought the same message in its final form - the final Book - Quran.Prophets Muhammad pbuh was the last and the final messenger of Allah,after him no new prophets will be sent.

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." (33:40)


why and what evidence from the QURAN do you have?

The most important thing is each of the prophets is believed to have been assigned a special mission by God.

Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.(2:136)

"And he (Jesus, son of Mary) shall be known sign for (the coming of) the Hour (Day of Resurrection). And follow Me (Allah) This is the Straight Path (of Islamic Monotheism, leading to Allah and to His Paradise)."(43:61)

p/s:Bhaii or Bhaiyaa
 
north_malaysian said:
Never heard 'qawwali' songs.... is it the same as arabic classical songs sung by Um Kulthum, Farid Al Atrache or Asmahaan?
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qawwali is sufi devotional music of india and pakistan. i am obsessed with nusrat fateh ali khan's music (from pakistan). i think islam was mainly spread on the sub-continent by sufis - maybe indonesia and malaysia too.
um kulthum is also one of the great voices of last century!
i like bhangra too and have a friend who is working on a documentary about it. traditionally it is only done by men and is really centered around agricultural life in punjab (india-pakistan) but it has become very popular, even among non-punjabis and the modernized form is done by both men and women. the music has a great spirit!
(excuse us, all of you who think music is evil!)
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
NO! That's culture! Bhangra is forbidden, actually any form of dancing or songs with lyrics other than the praise of the Lord is.

I'll find the quote but it goes something like this 'Dancing, singing are the jobs of kanjarian (shameless)

The punjabi culture has a lot to answer for!
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SSA,
i am really shocked at this info. would you check it out and make sure?
i thought sikhism had very few rules and regulations! no music other than gurbani? no dancing? (even tho bhangra was done only by men - there was no mixing)? one of the things i like about sikhism is its awareness of the profound importance of sound and its relationship to consciousness.
do you personally only listen to gurbani?
thanks for your answers about gurbani - this has confused me for quite awhile.
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
That makes no sense, Jews were here long before muslims, so who did Moses or Jesus represent? And as you came after, would that not mean muslims *Islam* was the breakaway group?

'we don't believe Moses or Jesus were jews, they were all muslims
' why and what evidence from the QURAN do you have? Not personal opinion!
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Maan you don't understand.

Ok let me break it down. First of all do you even know how the term "jew" came about. there were 12 tribes of israel, on of them was tribe of judah. Aftyer prophet Solomans and davids Peace Be Upon Thems Rule, the kingdom of israel got divided into two parts, north and south. The Judaites were in the soith. An army came I think from babylon and destroyed all tribes, and only the judaites survived, and they were called jews from there onwards

brother look in the Jewish holy book, the Torah, nowhere did Moses PBUH say he was a jew. He claimed he was a prophet of God who is obeying his command. Now he might not have said he is a muslim, but if you look at what a muslim means, it means one who submitts his will to god. So when Moses PBUH said he was a prophet of God following his will, in arabic it would say "I am a Muslim". Same as Jesus PBUH, he never said he was a Christian, look at what he said in the new testament

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]
he is basically saying He is a muslim! Thats is the definition of the word muslim

A muslim is somebody who follows Gods will and command. Thats why we believe all Prophets are "muslim" as they are all following God's commands and will. however we believe Prophet Muhammed PBUh was the last of the prophets. So obviously we don't believe people like Guru nanak etc, with all due respect, are prophets, so when they say they are prophets, we can't believe them, so we don't think they are following gods laws and rules, since according to us...they are lieing.
 
snakelegs said:
SSA,
i am really shocked at this info. would you check it out and make sure?
i thought sikhism had very few rules and regulations! no music other than gurbani? no dancing? (even tho bhangra was done only by men - there was no mixing)? one of the things i like about sikhism is its awareness of the profound importance of sound and its relationship to consciousness.
do you personally only listen to gurbani?
thanks for your answers about gurbani - this has confused me for quite awhile.
Click to expand...

Snakelegs, i refer to songs such as bhangara/hindi/hip pop etc!

Some lyrics are illicit, as you may know. For examle in clubs you hear say 'Jayz' the song may want you to dance in such a manner, that will be quite offensive. All that *grinding* that is why it's said you should not listen to such lyrics.

You would NEVER here bhangra or the above mentioned in a Gurdwara, only Gurbani!

The bahangra dance that's tradionally done is realted to our panjabi culture that not hing rude or illicit about that!
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Snakelegs, i refer to songs such as bhangara/hindi/hip pop etc!

Some lyrics are illicit, as you may know. For examle in clubs you hear say 'Jayz' the song may want you to dance in such a manner, that will be quite offensive. All that *grinding* that is why it's said you should not listen to such lyrics.

You would NEVER here bhangra or the above mentioned in a Gurdwara, only Gurbani!

The bahangra dance that's tradionally done is realted to our panjabi culture that not hing rude or illicit about that!
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no, of course you wouldn't hear bhangra in a gurdwara! (btw, did you know that nusrat fateh ali khan sang in a gurdwara in UK?).
ok - you are saying that the commercialized modern version of bhangra (which is very different from the traditional) would be taboo. that makes sense. you had me worried there!
your quote "Dancing, singing are the jobs of kanjarian (shameless)" had me thinking that all music other than gurbani was forbidden.
i have a hard time with the concept that god would forbid music (as many here think).
 
Mohsin said:
Maan you don't understand.

Ok let me break it down. First of all do you even know how the term "jew" came about. there were 12 tribes of israel, on of them was tribe of judah. Aftyer prophet Solomans and davids Peace Be Upon Thems Rule, the kingdom of israel got divided into two parts, north and south. The Judaites were in the soith. An army came I think from babylon and destroyed all tribes, and only the judaites survived, and they were called jews from there onwards

brother look in the Jewish holy book, the Torah, nowhere did Moses PBUH say he was a jew. He claimed he was a prophet of God who is obeying his command. Now he might not have said he is a muslim, but if you look at what a muslim means, it means one who submitts his will to god. So when Moses PBUH said he was a prophet of God following his will, in arabic it would say "I am a Muslim". Same as Jesus PBUH, he never said he was a Christian, look at what he said in the new testament

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]
he is basically saying He is a muslim! Thats is the definition of the word muslim

A muslim is somebody who follows Gods will and command. Thats why we believe all Prophets are "muslim" as they are all following God's commands and will. however we believe Prophet Muhammed PBUh was the last of the prophets. So obviously we don't believe people like Guru nanak etc, with all due respect, are prophets, so when they say they are prophets, we can't believe them, so we don't think they are following gods laws and rules, since according to us...they are lieing.
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This post made me realise that even though I became familiar with Bible before familiar with Qur'an (and even now I am only listened to it in Arabic that I can not comprehend of my self, and not read it); it is the case that I can not concieve of there ever having been a time without Muslims. How else could any of us exist my mind reasons. I can not becertain how much this perspective is from Qur'an and ahadith and how much from my own Indigenous Australian background; but I suspect that the later is the case. I am that I have only ever been a Human who accepts fully the passage of fire as need so as to sustain cause; and this feels to be a biological fact.

So here then I should express that Australian Aborigines have some level of interest in what of Sikh manifests within Islam, and what can not. Since many of our people are most inclined towards Muslim belief but yet are reticient to identify such for various absurdly political reasons and in connection to the fact of misinformation having been spread by shaytan about our beliefs to the Australian Muslim community. The esoteric teaching of our culture is quite like that of India. But we are certainly not of any ability to validate any reincarnation ideology. So it is that Sikh belief structure is a form of hybrid that has found an interest among us. There seems to be a similarity in leadership style between Sikh and Aboriginal Australia. But therein I believe we are safe since we are unlikely to manifest any new Prophet. Yet there are a number of Aborigines with randomly oddly effected beleif structures and whom are looking to find such a person. The Surah The Jinn is that within which they will all be directed.

wasalam
 
we should al respect other people views Yes Guru Nanak Sahib were a Muslim they performed Hajj as well as 12 years of Chila Meditation at the Roza of Sheikh Al-Baghdadi Syed Abdul Qadir Jilani Ghouse e Azam (RA).

Their death was remarkable that the body disappeared before the funeral prayers. During their life no hatred of Islam or Muslims was portrayed.:D

The disappearance of a body before a funeral is an accepted method of return of great Holy Persons in Islam, Many Prophets and Saints disappeared Hz Idris (AS) and Hz Isa (AS). Had the Sikhs burned the body of Guru Nanak Sahib then it would have been proof to the world that they died as other than being Muslim. This fact alone is PROOF that they died with IMAN.:)

Just like the followers of Jesus made a new religion the Sikhs did the same. Guru Nanak Sahib never came with a new religion. :grumbling

Nice facts about a great person.:happy:

Jazak Allah Khairan
 
snakelegs said:
i think islam was mainly spread on the sub-continent by sufis - maybe indonesia and malaysia too.
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Yes, it is... traditionally most of Malaysian Muslims practice minimal Sufism of Qadiriyiah and Naqshabandiyah. But there are also followers of Aidrusiyyah, Shadhiliyah, Khalwatiyah and Sammaniyah too.

The most popular Sufism practice in Malaysia is 'Zikir Munajat' which is done usually during Qiyamulail ("Stay Awake in the night?") where a religious teacher will lead 'zikr' in a mosque or musalla without any light switch on ... making all the faithfuls to imagine how dark when you are in your grave, also askin faithfuls to repent for sins they did to the parents .... and making most of the faithful remorsed and crying!!!

snakelegs said:
um kulthum is also one of the great voices of last century!
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I started listening to her songs, when I've heard her soundtracks in a movie about Rabiatul Adawiyah. Yes... she had a very good voice.
 
Alaikumassalam,

this is good information about Malay Islam north_malaysian! It can be difficult to comprehend the varying cultural differences that only flavour Islam, but also make Islam palatable to different races in different places: that is without having been among such people or learned of their immediate practise

But now I am posting again in a portion off the topic of Sikhism. First next I am thinking about Punjabi culture after reading some of the other posts. I worked waitressing in a Punjabi restaurant, half owned by the father of a school friend, when I was 18. So I learned a little from the interactions between these people. My friend's father is Sikh and her mother an Aussie. The odd thing is that she and I had very similar familial experiences. She is still one of my best friends. Her father imported the last Tandoor from Punjab that Australia would let in because of the poo in the mud they are made of. But I have some other friends who are ceramicists and who made a few Tandoors, and we cooked in one of them for New Year going into 2000. It was fun. But truly apart from food and clothing I know less than I should about Punjabi culture.

But now back to the topic of the post. About that Guru Nanak being supposed a Prophet? . . . surely it is that when Allah is defining Mohammed as the last Prophet (Peace go with Him always); that Allah's meaning is of a promise to Humanity that He will not enable any further Prophesies. The point of Mohammed (Peace go with Him always) being the last, is that He was first to know the last prophesises. There is nothing written that no other man will ever live with the capacity of a Prophet. In fact, in Jannah many could be enabled as the Prophets (Peace go with all among) have been. This is an important distinction.

Surely then we must be asking of Sikh whether there were any new prophesises to judge how well aligned Sikh belief is with Islam?

mu'asalam
 
SHAH G said:
we should al respect other people views Yes Guru Nanak Sahib were a Muslim they performed Hajj as well as 12 years of Chila Meditation at the Roza of Sheikh Al-Baghdadi Syed Abdul Qadir Jilani Ghouse e Azam (RA).

Their death was remarkable that the body disappeared before the funeral prayers. During their life no hatred of Islam or Muslims was portrayed.:D

The disappearance of a body before a funeral is an accepted method of return of great Holy Persons in Islam, Many Prophets and Saints disappeared Hz Idris (AS) and Hz Isa (AS). Had the Sikhs burned the body of Guru Nanak Sahib then it would have been proof to the world that they died as other than being Muslim. This fact alone is PROOF that they died with IMAN.:)

Just like the followers of Jesus made a new religion the Sikhs did the same. Guru Nanak Sahib never came with a new religion. :grumbling

Nice facts about a great person.:happy:

Jazak Allah Khairan
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Indeed it is great you hold such reverence for Guru Nanak Dev Ji! - He was not a muslim as he did not take claim to be following Islam or any other relgion before his arrival! - He didn't perform Hajj as Mohammed may have and the way Muslims do, he went there to educate! - His body vanshished that is true because he was a messenger of Allah regardless of what people say.

But to claim he was a Muslim is wrong. He taught/preached Sikhism hence why the followers are known as such! - Guru Nanak Maharaaj did noe ever recite the Quran, but uttered the 'Mool Mantar' and many other sacred verses instructed by Allah!

THAT is the TRUTH brother! :)
 
hi sikh brother in many of your web site put abdul qadir jilani and guru aswell you will find info from any search engine
 

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