Sikhism

NoWingedAngel said:
Well, I work in law enforcement, and that just isn't going to happen. There's no way I'd be allowed to have a big beard and a turban. I can't even grow a beard, now that I think of it.

It's impractical in many professions.

My point is that Guru Nanak Dev criticized Hindus who threw water at the sun for their ancestors and criticized Muslims who gave him grief for sleeping with his feet towards the Ka'ba.

But, a person isn't considered a True Sikh® a lot of the time unless they hold to the 5 K's, regardless of what's in their heart.
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there are many officers both in the US and Canada who are amritdharee and have beard... most just choose to keep it tied up...

holding the 5K's is only ONE of the things that makes a Sikh, not the only... we don't know whats in everybody's heart, but that shouldn't matter to me or you, our focus is to purify ourselves first, before lookin at others... our Great Guru sahibs have prescribed to us what a TRUE sikh is...

Guru Amar Daas Jee also says in Anand Sahib about those that are 'jeeo mailay, bahro nirmal' -- inwardly polluted, but outwardly pure.. anybody can 'look' the part... i can 'look' like a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Sikh, or a Rasta etc... but that doesn't mean i AM one..

carrying the 5 K's is not the only thing that makes a person a Sikh.. Guru Nanak laid down 3 basic ground rules 1. Kirat Karna 2. Vand Kay Shakna 3. Naam Japna i.e. 1. earn a honest/truthful living 2. share your wealth/possessions/serve humanity 3. Meditate on the lord.. being a Sikh is a lot more then just outside appearance... its also about inside, and cleansing the filth thats in our hearts/minds/souls... the word "Sikh" means disciple, and as Guru Amar Daas Jee says in Anand Sahib "bhagtaa kee chaal niralee" -- meaning the life of a devotee is very strict.

the reason for keeping our hair/beard is because we believe we should live in the way God made us... he made us a certain way, by altering this image, we're telling him He's not perfect... Guru Gobind Singh made it official that a Sikh is to have unshorn hair on their body..

if you want me to go more in detail, please don't hesitate to ask..

Bless!
 
Heera Singh said:
there are many officers both in the US and Canada who are amritdharee and have beard... most just choose to keep it tied up...
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Must be out West because professional standards usually state that one may have a mustache that doesn't go below the top lip and no beard at all.

holding the 5K's is only ONE of the things that makes a Sikh, not the only... we don't know whats in everybody's heart, but that shouldn't matter to me or you, our focus is to purify ourselves first, before lookin at others... our Great Guru sahibs have prescribed to us what a TRUE sikh is...
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You might want to start a thread at sikhnet and see what kind of replies you get.

Guru Amar Daas Jee also says in Anand Sahib about those that are 'jeeo mailay, bahro nirmal' -- inwardly polluted, but outwardly pure.. anybody can 'look' the part... i can 'look' like a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Sikh, or a Rasta etc... but that doesn't mean i AM one..

carrying the 5 K's is not the only thing that makes a person a Sikh.. Guru Nanak laid down 3 basic ground rules 1. Kirat Karna 2. Vand Kay Shakna 3. Naam Japna i.e. 1. earn a honest/truthful living 2. share your wealth/possessions/serve humanity 3. Meditate on the lord.. being a Sikh is a lot more then just outside appearance... its also about inside, and cleansing the filth thats in our hearts/minds/souls... the word "Sikh" means disciple, and as Guru Amar Daas Jee says in Anand Sahib "bhagtaa kee chaal niralee" -- meaning the life of a devotee is very strict.
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Sounds really, really good on a web forum, but is it practiced this way in real life? Are shorn Sikhs as equally respected as typical Sikhs?

the reason for keeping our hair/beard is because we believe we should live in the way God made us... he made us a certain way, by altering this image, we're telling him He's not perfect... Guru Gobind Singh made it official that a Sikh is to have unshorn hair on their body..
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Absolutely. I'm so certain that God actually cares about how long my hair is.

:thumbs_do

if you want me to go more in detail, please don't hesitate to ask..

Bless!
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Peace to your house.
 
Must be out West because professional standards usually state that one may have a mustache that doesn't go below the top lip and no beard at all.
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hmm... i'm actually pretty sure there's sikh officers in New York... but i will try to find out for you..

You might want to start a thread at sikhnet and see what kind of replies you get.
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i'm not a part of that forum.. but, what did u mean by that?

Sounds really, really good on a web forum, but is it practiced this way in real life? Are shorn Sikhs as equally respected as typical Sikhs?
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i don't know about every other person who calls themselves a sikh... i don't think you can base the beliefs of the faith on its 'followers'... i can honestly say that i make every attempt and try my hardest to live by the tenats that are prescribed by our Gurus.. its not somethin that happens over night.. Sikhism is a way of life, and for some it takes longer then others to fully follow this way of life... the most important part is that the effort is made..

as per respect... personally i try to show respect to everybody.. for myself, i can say that I probably give more respect to some people, for the reason that i respect their ability to live the way of a Tru Sikh, because it isn't easy.. i's a very disciplined lifestyle and for those that can do it full fledge, its a great inspiration for me... thats not really a bad thing, i's not that i see others as 'less', but a certain person might inspire me more then sum1 else..

Absolutely. I'm so certain that God actually cares about how long my hair is.
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well, ur entitled to ur own opinion.. but hair is important... even scientifically -- i can provide u with sources upon request..

Bless!
 
Heera Singh said:
i'm not a part of that forum.. but, what did u mean by that?
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Actually, not just that forum. You can go to any other forum where there is a substantial Sikh presence along with people interested in Sikhism, such as Beliefnet.

You will see the same theme over and over and over...

i don't know about every other person who calls themselves a sikh... i don't think you can base the beliefs of the faith on its 'followers'... i can honestly say that i make every attempt and try my hardest to live by the tenats that are prescribed by our Gurus.. its not somethin that happens over night.. Sikhism is a way of life, and for some it takes longer then others to fully follow this way of life... the most important part is that the effort is made..

as per respect... personally i try to show respect to everybody.. for myself, i can say that I probably give more respect to some people, for the reason that i respect their ability to live the way of a Tru Sikh, because it isn't easy.. i's a very disciplined lifestyle and for those that can do it full fledge, its a great inspiration for me... thats not really a bad thing, i's not that i see others as 'less', but a certain person might inspire me more then sum1 else..
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Thats very noble of you. Now, I have a question.

If I'm a Sikh, and I want to run for Gurdwara committee, but I am not allowed to on the fact that I cut my hair or shave, do you think that is fair?

Doing the best you can is well and fine and all, but when you become a pariah to your brothers and sisters, there isn't much happiness doing it.

well, ur entitled to ur own opinion.. but hair is important... even scientifically -- i can provide u with sources upon request..

Bless!
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No, no scientific quotes are necessary. Though, I do have other questions.

Do Sikhs get their ears or noses or other body parts pierced? Do they get tattooed or any other form of body modification such as breast enlargements or tummy tucks? Do they get faulty organs removed or transplants? I'm trying to find where the line is drawn between "necessary change" and "leaving things the way God designed them."
 
Actually, not just that forum. You can go to any other forum where there is a substantial Sikh presence along with people interested in Sikhism, such as Beliefnet.

You will see the same theme over and over and over...
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I am a part of another forum, but i still don't get what u mean.. please explain..

Thats very noble of you. Now, I have a question.

If I'm a Sikh, and I want to run for Gurdwara committee, but I am not allowed to on the fact that I cut my hair or shave, do you think that is fair?

Doing the best you can is well and fine and all, but when you become a pariah to your brothers and sisters, there isn't much happiness doing it.
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thats a tuff question... for that a person who shaves MIGHT even be able to do a better job with the committee then sum1 who doesn't shave... that being said, the role is a very important role... my own PERSONAL belief is that, a person of that status is a role model, and thus shud also follow the tenats of Sikhi.. if that person is a clean shaven person, there's a greater chance other people will be like "oh well, the committee guy shaves, so it must be okay"... remember, the word Gurdwara means "Guru's Gate" or Guru's Home.. we must abide by the Guru's Rule... As an example (maybe not the best one, but the first one that came to my head): the police chief of a city who on one hand is enforcing legislature against drunk driving, but then the week after is caught doing the same thing... not a very good role model..

in a certain type of position there is a lot of 'status' so to speak -- in the sense that that person would be role model. The role of a committee member is not only to look after the Gurdwara, but also to encourage and inspire those attending to follow the path of Sikhi, to spread the Word of our Gurus, and to make sure everything is being run as per Gurmat (The teachings of our Guru).. it would be a little hypocritical if he/she was preaching one thing, and practicing another..

**however, not to say that you cannot help with the Gurdwara activities... of course anybody should be able to help out and make suggestions and what not..

Do Sikhs get their ears or noses or other body parts pierced? Do they get tattooed or any other form of body modification such as breast enlargements or tummy tucks? Do they get faulty organs removed or transplants? I'm trying to find where the line is drawn between "necessary change" and "leaving things the way God designed them."
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piercings - no
tattoos - no
body modification/tummy tucks etc.. - no

when it comes to things like transplants/surgeries etc... i think most people would see that as okay. reason bein, these are things that might be necessary for one to live; piercings/tattoos and all that stuff is jus for image.. does nothing for ur life/spirituality and are actually harming the body more then anything.. remember, the body is our temple, so we shud stay away from things that harm it (which includes drugs or alcohol n what not)

I have, however, heard of some people who will not get surgery or transplant because they say if it is Gods Will, and it is their time to go, then it shall be.. But, most people I know (including myself), will have no problem against that stuff because it will allow that person to live longer and work on their spirituality and serve humanity etc... Obviously at the end of the day, if you're meant to die and its God's Will, then you will die, no matter how many surgeries or operations or meds u take...
 
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you're welcome.. is there anything that i said that you don't agree with or you think is dumb/ignorant/hypocritical?
 
I'm just standing my ground. Not everyone can just not cut their hair and not shave, unless you think there should be less police officers.

I don't think God cares about how long someone's hair is, no more than he cares about how long someone's finger nails are.
 
don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to sound judgemental or anything... i'm jus tryna understand ur thinkin on this..

is keeping hair something that you might think you will do in the future? or do u not have any plans to keep ur hair?

or is it jus that you find some of the teachings interesting and are open to learnin about the faith, but have no interest in 'following the faith' so to speak... ?
 
Jesus had long hair, Krishna had long hair. Samson had long hair, I presume Mohammed had long hair. The Guru Sahibs had long hair. I don't understand your point? Rastafarians have long hair. It's not a new concept. It's about 'man being created in God's image'' We are told to preserve this image.

You compare it to rituals, yet are you aware Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahaaj is the tenth Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Mahaaj? So saying One Guru Ji said this, and the other Guru Ji implemeted something else is meaningless.

Next point, If you go the Gurdwaras you'll find many mona (shorn haired) Sikhs, they are playing a part in everyday things which concern the Sikhs. And most of them being influenced by Sikhism, and those around them choose to grow their hair and become Sikhs as defined by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraaj.

Gur Fateh Brother!
 
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NoWingedAngel said:
Do Sikhs get their ears or noses or other body parts pierced? Do they get tattooed or any other form of body modification such as breast enlargements or tummy tucks? Do they get faulty organs removed or transplants? I'm trying to find where the line is drawn between "necessary change" and "leaving things the way God designed them."
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You confuse us with Jehovahs Witnesses...

Why would you need to have an organ transplant if the organs were intact? God has given us free will, he's provided the neccessary tools to assist us in our well being. And we are encouraged to use such things. (transplants of neccessary) It's like saying ''Don't go to the doctors, if you're ill, because God can make you better as you beleive in him alone''

Also, yes many Orthodox (sp?) Sikhs do not pierce the ears/nose/tummy tucks/breast enlargements or have tatoos of any kind. What is the point? it serves no requirement. Apart from making one look attractive.
 
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Heera Singh said:
don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to sound judgemental or anything... i'm jus tryna understand ur thinkin on this..

is keeping hair something that you might think you will do in the future? or do u not have any plans to keep ur hair?

or is it jus that you find some of the teachings interesting and are open to learnin about the faith, but have no interest in 'following the faith' so to speak... ?
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No. My point is that the length of my hair shouldn't have anything to do with what religion I'm a part of any more than the length of my fingernails.

Many law enforcement agencies do not allow men to have bears and long hair.
Department policy at my department, for example, states that a man's hair may not come below the collar. It states that you may have no facial hair except for a mustache, which cannot be below your top lip.
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Jesus had long hair, Krishna had long hair. Samson had long hair, I presume Mohammed had long hair. The Guru Sahibs had long hair. I don't understand your point? Rastafarians have long hair. It's not a new concept. It's about 'man being created in God's image'' We are told to preserve this image.

You compare it to rituals, yet are you aware Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahaaj is the tenth Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Mahaaj? So saying One Guru Ji said this, and the other Guru Ji implemeted something else is meaningless.

Next point, If you go the Gurdwaras you'll find many mona (shorn haired) Sikhs, they are playing a part in everyday things which concern the Sikhs. And most of them being influenced by Sikhism, and those around them choose to grow their hair and become Sikhs as defined by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraaj.

Gur Fateh Brother!
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First of all, I'm not a prophet. Second, the length of a prophet's hair has nothing to do with his or her message. Finally, all of those prophets are from cultures that are not my own. While the message may be universal, the customs aren't.

Again, my point is that some people simply can't grow their hair out. Period.

AvarAllahNoor said:
You confuse us with Jehovahs Witnesses...

Why would you need to have an organ transplant if the organs were intact? God has given us free will, he's provided the neccessary tools to assist us in our well being. And we are encouraged to use such things. (transplants of neccessary) It's like saying ''Don't go to the doctors, if you're ill, because God can make you better as you beleive in him alone''

Also, yes many Orthodox (sp?) Sikhs do not pierce the ears/nose/tummy tucks/breast enlargements or have tatoos of any kind. What is the point? it serves no requirement. Apart from making one look attractive.
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I am not confusing you with Jehovah's Witnesses... please, my intelligence is a bit better than that. I'm just asking where the line between "leave it alone as God designed it that way" and "this is a necessary change" falls.

For example. Do Sikhs cut their fingernails? Why or why not? If so, what makes that any different than your hair?
 
NoWingedAngel said:
First of all, I'm not a prophet. Second, the length of a prophet's hair has nothing to do with his or her message. Finally, all of those prophets are from cultures that are not my own. While the message may be universal, the customs aren't.

Again, my point is that some people simply can't grow their hair out. Period.



I am not confusing you with Jehovah's Witnesses... please, my intelligence is a bit better than that. I'm just asking where the line between "leave it alone as God designed it that way" and "this is a necessary change" falls.

For example. Do Sikhs cut their fingernails? Why or why not? If so, what makes that any different than your hair?
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Dead hair sheds naturally, do finger nails? It would be in your best interest to use the search function ALL this this & more has been covered.

You don't believe in a God, so why would our tenets of faith convince you?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)
 
You reside in the USA - Heard of Espanola? You'll see many white sikh converts, ask them how THEY manage to work and still manage to keep the 5 ks. Just because you don't think it's 'doable' it does not mean it's a fact.
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
You reside in the USA - Heard of Espanola? You'll see many white sikh converts, ask them how THEY manage to work and still manage to keep the 5 ks. Just because you don't think it's 'doable' it does not mean it's a fact.
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That isn't my point. What I'm telling you is that sometimes, a persons career does not allow them to just grow a long beard and not cut their hair. When that happens, especially to a convert, then there can be a negative effect of either "I'm not Sikh enough" or getting flak from one's brothers and sisters.
 
thats fine, everybody has their own opinion.. but to be a tru Sikh of the Great Guru, one must have unshorn hair and abide by the tenats of the faith...

** that being said.. everybody develops at their own pace... having unshorn hair isn't the only thing that makes one a Sikh... some decide to work on their 'inside' first, and then outside... some work on outside first, then inside... some try to work on both at the same time... i's their own individual choice..

sikhism is about dsicipline and its a very strict way of life... if one was REALLY devoted to the way of life, then he/she would make every attempt to abide by it, no matter what the culture is where they live... for example, there was a time years ago even in canada where men weren't allowed to wear turbans/beards in the police force/RCMP... but as per International Human Rights, and the Canadian Charter of Rights, they were allowed to, so they took action and made sure the rules were changed..

Personally, I think if you are serious about adopting this way of life, then something like that needs to be done... sometimes we have to make an effort to make others around us 'accept' our beliefs/faith and not conform to their beliefs....

I mean, I kno diff of culture... at one point when i was in Canada (outside Toronto) I worked in a city called Georgetown, which is known for its KKK activities and had the KKK headquarters there.. i wud drive down the street and see confederate flags in the back of peoples trucks n stuff.. and sure, i got some dirty looks and some bad attitudes by some people, but most people respected me because I was proud of who I was.. proud of my image.. and very strict with my faith.. that type of vibe projects outward and people will slowly accept who we are and will learn to respect us and our beliefs...

u live in the US, perhaps u can look into getting a job with http://www.akalsecurity.com/ (if in fact you are worried about not being allowed to keep hair/turban/5K's.).. this is a company that does national defence for USA and is started and run by Amritdharee Sikhs... the person i mentioned in one of my earlier posts that works for the US Gov't/Army lives in new york.. nobody gives him problems..

at the end of the day, is your own decision... if you as a person seriously feel you want to adopt this (or any faith), then you will (or should) make an attempt and every effort to follow it, regardless of what society/culture tells u...

jus my thoughts..

Bless!
 
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