Sikhs want to use "Allah" too...

[Eeman]

The Jews, Chrisitans and the Hindus all actually believe in the EXISTENCE of the one, exact and same God i.e. Allah - the one true God who has no partners, rivals etc.

salam alaikum brother, i dont agree with you there, chirstians do not believe in the one true God, they believe in jesus, holy spirit and god, they believe in the trinity, and hindus they have a whole family of gods, man made idols that they praise glorify invoke and worship.

 

[Eeman]

Ram is not the one who was betrothed to Sita. Ram, in hinduism is the name for God. Hindusim has faltered into idloatry, we do not associate God with idols.

i thought in hindu bagwan is the name for god.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

dear brother, i suggest you READ the whole thread i was not the one saying guru nanak was muslim as far as im concerned guru nanak was sikh hence why he brought about sikhism, common logic i must say.

i'm sorry as regards ram i do not agree with you there you cannot associate the Almighty Lord who is unseen to a man made idol named ram, khuda is the persian word for God is urdu the same. you do not get english christians refering to jesus as khuda. i dont even know what sevakgosian means so im not gonna refer to that i tried googling it but nothing came up.
yet again Allah means God in arabic so makes sense for arabic speakers to refer to their God be it muslims or christian arabs.

we believe God is one, christians dont, hindus dont you might, but for someone to have such believes and call upon God by saying hai ram errr doesnt that contradict their whole believe?

Gusain is the name for God of the Kateb (Semitic Books)

The rest wasn't directed at you. I mean in general Muslims say this on other sites. On this site too, but that was addressed. Seems like I'm going around in circles. all this has been said back in 2006 search for Sikhism thread.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

i thought in hindu bagwan is the name for god.

Brahma, Visnu, Ram, Prabu, see, so many names.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

The Jews, Chrisitans and the Hindus all actually believe in the EXISTENCE of the one, exact and same God i.e. Allah - the one true God who has no partners, rivals etc.

salam alaikum brother, i dont agree with you there, chirstians do not believe in the one true God, they believe in jesus, holy spirit and god, they believe in the trinity, and hindus they have a whole family of gods, man made idols that they praise glorify invoke and worship.

That's the uneducated ones. Real Hindus do now idol worship, they don't have 'Gods' with six arms and 5 heads etc. This is like the Greek Mythical gods. Zeus Thor etc. Just made for entertainment. Which is wrong.

 

[Eeman]

We don't just believe we KNOW!

Shri Sian Shekih Farid Ji & more- Google it, you'll learn something!

lol dear brother im sorry if i wanna even debate on that.

so the muslim saints wrote the verses in the guru granth sahib.
now if these saints are muslim i.e believers of islam....
then they must have been followers of the Qur'an to be muslim right and practicing muslims...

now why on earth would they write lies about their own God that they believe and their own religion to create another religion or create a holy book for people to deviate from the true path of Allah to another path...

and you said muslim saints... it takes a long time and a lot of dedication and striving hard for the sake of Allah swt to become a saint, and then why wold they do such a thing commit such a major sin to earn the WRATH of Allah swt and spend eternity in Hellfire?

that just doesnt make sense to me from a muslim perspective and on top a muslim saint!

 

[Eeman]

Brahma, Visnu, Ram, Prabu, see, so many names.

But these are names given to statues to diffrentiate them.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

lol dear brother im sorry if i wanna even debate on that.

so the muslim saints wrote the verses in the guru granth sahib.
now if these saints are muslim i.e believers of islam....
then they must have been followers of the Qur'an to be muslim right and practicing muslims...

now why on earth would they write lies about their own God that they believe and their own religion to create another religion or create a holy book for people to deviate from the true path of Allah to another path...

and you said muslim saints... it takes a long time and a lot of dedication and striving hard for the sake of Allah swt to become a saint, and then why wold they do such a thing commit such a major sin to earn the WRATH of Allah swt and spend eternity in Hellfire?

that just doesnt make sense to me from a muslim perspective and on top a muslim saint!

He didn't follow Islam the way you do. He was a saint because he prefomed Miracles. I'll address it a bit more later. Post questions you lot want to, and i'll answer them later on. Have to make tracks.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

But these are names given to statues to diffrentiate them.

Yes, it's the the 99 names of Allah by muslims. these are the VERSIONS of Gods many attributes anyway i'm here to talk about Sikhism not Hinduism!

 

[Eeman]

The Jews, Chrisitans and the Hindus all actually believe in the EXISTENCE of the one, exact and same God i.e. Allah - the one true God who has no partners, rivals etc.



That's the uneducated ones. Real Hindus do now idol worship, they don't have 'Gods' with six arms and 5 heads etc. This is like the Greek Mythical gods. Zeus Thor etc. Just made for entertainment. Which is wrong.

i dont quite understand you there... you say thats the uneducated ones and go to say that real hindus now do idol worship and they dont have gods with six arms and 5 heads.

where is the holy place for hindus to go to? the mandir their temple, whats in these mandirs that they pray to statues who do they invoke? the man made statues, some have six arms and some are blue but in human form, some are elephants and some are cows. so ummm that is idol worshipping and not believing in the One unseen God.

 

[Eeman]

He didn't follow Islam the way you do. He was a saint because he prefomed Miracles. I'll address it a bit more later. Post questions you lot want to, and i'll answer them later on. Have to make tracks.

so ok got you.
basically he wasnt a muslim saint then and many people perform miracles and from islamic perspective these people are able to perform miracles cos they are in contact with the jinns.

 

[Eeman]

Yes, it's the the 99 names of Allah by muslims. these are the VERSIONS of Gods many attributes anyway i'm here to talk about Sikhism not Hinduism!

the 99 names of Allah is His attributes, through His 99 names that He has revealed to us He is telling us what the attributes of this ONE God that mankind should believe in are!
Rahman = gracious
raheem= merciful
wadud= loving
mani= preventer
awal=first
akhir= last etc

its not like we have 99 gods and you praise and worship each god for the specific reason e.g. when we commit a sin we dont go to raheem and invoke raheem to have mercy on us.

and what is the meaning of ram? or prabu or vishnu are these attributes of a One God or merely names?

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

The Jews, Chrisitans and the Hindus all actually believe in the EXISTENCE of the one, exact and same God i.e. Allah - the one true God who has no partners, rivals etc.

salam alaikum brother, i dont agree with you there, chirstians do not believe in the one true God, they believe in jesus, holy spirit and god, they believe in the trinity, and hindus they have a whole family of gods, man made idols that they praise glorify invoke and worship.

I think you are mistaken. Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God or the Son of God - I think the Mormon sect if I'm not wrong.

Also, I was watching a lecture by Dr. Zakir Naik who is, in my opinion, probably the best multi-lingual comparitive religion speaker alive today. I've even seen him quote a Jewish book in Hebrew to site proof from memory!!. Anyway, back to the point - he was explaining that the Hindus do believe in the One True God or Creator as its in some of their holy scriptures. However, they also believe in other Gods which are intermediaries to Allah.

 

[Eeman]

The Jews, Chrisitans and the Hindus all actually believe in the EXISTENCE of the one, exact and same God i.e. Allah - the one true God who has no partners, rivals etc.




I think you are mistaken. Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God or the Son of God - I think the Mormon sect if I'm not wrong.

Also, I was watching a lecture by Dr. Zakir Naik who is, in my opinion, probably the best multi-lingual comparitive religion speaker alive today. I've even seen him quote a Jewish book in Hebrew to site proof from memory!!. Anyway, back to the point - he was explaining that the Hindus do believe in the One True God or Creator as its in some of their holy scriptures. However, they also believe in other Gods which are intermediaries to Allah.

so all in all it your statement goes to answer your own question brother, they believe in one God but also believe in other gods which are intermediaries,
all in all the whole concept is flawed and a big form of shirk...
how can you believe that there is One God and then believe in other gods with godly qualities and use these gods to intervene for you.

on that basis in my life from my own learning i have had and still do have many hindu friends who i love and cherish, and these are people with these beliefs... yes they believe in God so as their belief goes but then this god, but then they go contradicting their own belief of that one god by believing in other gods... wooooooooooooosh! (way over my head) dunno how that works.

as in i'd understand when some muslims, and there are muslims out there who commit shirk by going to saints and invoking the saints thinking that they are using them as someone to intervene and put in a good word for them due to their piety to Allah swt and these people believe that by doing so Allah swt on the behalf of that saint will answer their prayers.
but these muslims dont go as far as describing that saint as a god or with godly features or abilities but hindus do with ram, prabu, vishnu , ganesh, shiva, kali mata etc.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

so all in all it your statement goes to answer your own question brother, they believe in one God but also believe in other gods which are intermediaries,
all in all the whole concept is flawed and a big form of shirk...
how can you believe that there is One God and then believe in other gods with godly qualities and use these gods to intervene for you.

on that basis in my life from my own learning i have had and still do have many hindu friends who i love and cherish, and these are people with these beliefs... yes they believe in God so as their belief goes but then this god, but then they go contradicting their own belief of that one god by believing in other gods... wooooooooooooosh! (way over my head) dunno how that works.

as in i'd understand when some muslims, and there are muslims out there who commit shirk by going to saints and invoking the saints thinking that they are using them as someone to intervene and put in a good word for them due to their piety to Allah swt and these people believe that by doing so Allah swt on the behalf of that saint will answer their prayers.
but these muslims dont go as far as describing that saint as a god or with godly features or abilities but hindus do with ram, prabu, vishnu , ganesh, shiva, kali mata etc.

I see your point in the first paragraph that the concept is flawed in that it looks to be a contradiction. However, I have heard so many times - especially in 'misconceptions about Islam' topics - that the Jews and Christians believe in the same God. Maybe I've missed something?.

 

[Eeman]

I see your point in the first paragraph that the concept is flawed in that it looks to be a contradiction. However, I have heard so many times - especially in 'misconceptions about Islam' topics - that the Jews and Christians believe in the same God. Maybe I've missed something?.

Sorry brother i did not quite got what you meant there, as in jews and christians believe in the same God that we muslims believe in?

obviously the first scripture that was revealed was the torah which were to the jews, until they fabricated and added on and emmitted what suited them, the the injeel to the people that we now know as christians and yet the same thing happened there so the final book that was revealed was the Qu'ran and here we are Alhumdullilah! muslims.

so i would say that jews and christians believe in the same God but just believing in God is that enough? not implementing His laws and orders in life and striving for His sake, being righteous and totally dependent on Him, believing in Him as the One and only God, his books, messengers (all of them of course), angels, al qadar, paradise and hell.

and living life how it is meant to be lived by believing muslims, to serve Him and only Him.

so they may say that yes it is the same God but then again it makes you think, if it is the same God that everyone claims they believe and worship why you denying this God's true message and commands????
you say you believe in the God that we believe but you simply have a different message and follow different ways of life....

are these people then not what Allah swt refers to as the losers in His holy Qur'an

and if jews and christians were really and truely believers and believed God to be who believing muslims believe then why would Allah swt condemn them so much in the Qur'an.

cos they broke their covenant with Allah swt and transgressed, did their own souls wrong and therefore there is only one destination for these people jahanum...

It makes one think why would God condemn them in His true message by them believing in Him???

Dear jewish brothers and sisters please do not take what i have written into any form of offence i am cleary stating what our religion indicates.

everyone has their own beliefs and i love people from all works of life.
as long as the person has a good heart and is a good person to me it does not make any difference if your a hindu, jew or a christain agnostic or athiest.

plus in islam we are not taught or encouraged to treat people differently cos of their race gender background or religion, we get accounted for everthing, be it doing a fellow muslim wrong or a kafir.

so my apologisies i fi have said anything on this post that might have struck a wrong chord.

ma salama.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Erm, we don't need to believe in anything but Allah. We respect other religions, but we don't follow them!

Get educated before you make silly posts. Allah belongs to EVERYBODY. Only fools quarrell over who he's for and who he's not for!

The only way to know Allah is see what He has said about himself. In the Qur'an Allah talks about Himself in His Own words by saying who He is, what His decreed religion is and who are the believers who believe in Him and His Oneness, while all other religions which claim to believe in Him and worship Him in pure form etc are rejected because these are not approved by Allah. Christianity and Jewdaism are different because at one time the chosen religion was Jewdaism but soon afterwords christianity came, confirmed what came before it and preceded it. Now Islam has come and it confirms what has come before it in the Torah and Gospel and Islam has preceded these two because it has come in it's complete form along side the greatest of creation and that is Muhammad (saaws). So you cannot 'own' Allah or talk about Him in any way that you want because you can only say about Him what He has said about Himself.

The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
[Surah Al 'Imran 3:19]

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

The only way to know Allah is see what He has said about himself. In the Qur'an Allah talks about Himself in His Own words by saying who He is, what His decreed religion is and who are the believers who believe in Him and His Oneness, while all other religions which claim to believe in Him and worship Him in pure form etc are rejected because other religions were not something approved by Allah. Christianity and Jewdaism are different because at one time the chosen religion was Jewdaism but soon afterwords christianity came, confirmed what came before it and preceded it. Now Islam has come and it confirms what has come before it in the Torah and Gospel and Islam has preceded these two because has come in it's complete form. So you cannot 'own' Allah or talk about Him in any way that you want because you can only say about Him what He has said about Himself.
.[/COLOR][/B]
[Surah Al 'Imran 3:19]

This version was written by men (not even Mohammed the Prophet) so Sikhs do not follow such books. This account of what Allah is, means nothing to us.

Only God knows who he is, no man/woman can state any virtues of God. You believe the Quran, and Sikhs shall belive in their own.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

This version was written by men (not even Mohammed the Prophet) so Sikhs do not follow such books. This account go what Allah is, means nothing to us.

Only God knows who he is, no man/woman can state any virtues of God. You believe the Quan, and Sikhs shall belive in their own.

What 'version'?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yib9_x4gTHw[/media]

If this Qur'an is created by a man then accept this challenge, as Allah challenges you and all of mankind, to produce something better then it if you are true in your claim!

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

and what is the meaning of ram? or prabu or vishnu are these attributes of a One God or merely names?

Names.

I'm well aware of what the 99 names stand for and that they don't have a form.