Silence = Support

[Dagless]

......

Theres been plenty of terrorist attacks in Pakistan - why doesnt a non muslim post this when it happens there?

^This.

 

[aadil77]

Hence I ask the question, is that a requirment of Islam / the ummah?

This is the requirement of islam:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done. Qur'an 49:6

We do not trust news regarding muslim bomb attacks, from the same countries that are at war with us, even if that includes certain muslim countries.

Does it come down to this – what is more important to you; what your neighbour thinks of you or what your Muslim brother thinks of you? Isn’t that what it’s all about – unquestioned loyalty to the ummah?

We don't care what anyone thinks of us, all you have to do is open up the Qu'ran and you'll get your answers

 

[Maryan0]

I am British and I am sure that the majority of my fellow citizens believe that the majority of British Muslims want a peaceful, ‘good neighbour’ co-existence. And I am sure that is true of all western countries. And I am sure that the majority of Muslim members here would agree. A question that constantly arises is where are the voices of those Muslims condemning the atrocities of those who murder in the name of Islam?

My question is this – why am I, a non-Muslim, posting this thread; why is a Muslim not posting it and calling for others to raise their voices in condemnation? Is it because, as I believe, that you cannot bring yourself to criticise such acts? Is it not the case that Islam teaches (or at least encourages) that Muslims must support other Muslims (and silence is support) simply because they are Muslim and the act was perpetrated against non-Muslims?
slim]

If you were looking for unequivocal and unconditional condemnation you would not have opened the topic with these statements and made the topic about you and your thoughts on all 1.6 billion of us. It is possible that many of us did not hear about this I hardly think a post on a cyber forum should be held as an indication of how all Muslims feel about the murder of innocent non-muslims. I am fairly certain that all Muslims condemn the targeting and murder of innocents. If you wanted condemnation against this act than it should have been purely about this act and not what you think muslims support or care about.
Salam

 

[Thinker]

If tomorrow some lunatic kills a Muslim in Bradford simply because he is Muslim, I will condemn it absolutely, unequivocally and unconditionally. I won’t be saying what about the Muslim terror attack on x,y,z – my condemnation will be unconditional. And I suspect you would expect it to be and screaming fro a rooftop if it were otherwise and I suspect that you expect that the police would be successful in finding and convicting the perpetrator.

Why is it that when these attacks happen in a Muslim country I suspect that the perpetrator will not be caught and punished; is that because the police and public have no enthusiasm for solving such crimes?

 

[aadil77]

Why is it that when these attacks happen in a Muslim country I suspect that the perpetrator will not be caught and punished; is that because the police and public have no enthusiasm for solving such crimes?

no, its because there is no islamic rule and law in the country

 

[Thinker]

imsad

now take a hike!

Does this mean we're not friends anymore imsad

 

[Dagless]

If tomorrow some lunatic kills a Muslim in Bradford simply because he is Muslim, I will condemn it absolutely, unequivocally and unconditionally. I won’t be saying what about the Muslim terror attack on x,y,z – my condemnation will be unconditional. And I suspect you would expect it to be and screaming fro a rooftop if it were otherwise and I suspect that you expect that the police would be successful in finding and convicting the perpetrator.

So why haven't you been condemning the drone bombings in Pakistan?

 

[جوري]

If tomorrow some lunatic kills a Muslim in Bradford simply because he is Muslim, I will condemn it absolutely, unequivocally and unconditionally. I won’t be saying what about the Muslim terror attack on x,y,z – my condemnation will be unconditional. And I suspect you would expect it to be and screaming fro a rooftop if it were otherwise and I suspect that you expect that the police would be successful in finding and convicting the perpetrator. Why is it that when these attacks happen in a Muslim country I suspect that the perpetrator will not be caught and punished; is that because the police and public have no enthusiasm for solving such crimes?

I didn't see you condemning the death of Mohammed Al-Majed, by English hooligan thugs:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/sussex/7586574.stm
certainly not the first of its kind as crimes of this nature happen every day. Either way what would your condemnation do anyway? Will it bring people back from the dead? will it halt future racist attacks? NO-- you'll go on being a hateful racist in your heart even if desiring to give lip service

all the best

 

[جوري]

Does this mean we're not friends anymore

I prefer toilet trained friends!

all the best

 

[YusufNoor]

I am British and I am sure that the majority of my fellow citizens believe that the majority of British Muslims want a peaceful, ‘good neighbour’ co-existence. And I am sure that is true of all western countries. And I am sure that the majority of Muslim members here would agree. A question that constantly arises is where are the voices of those Muslims condemning the atrocities of those who murder in the name of Islam?

Someone has just set off a car bomb outside a Christian church in Egypt killing 21+. This is not the first occasion this has happened in Egypt, Iraq and elsewhere and I am sure that the majority here will condemn the act saying that it is contrary to the teachings of Islam and quoting the no compulsion verse.

My question is this – why am I, a non-Muslim, posting this thread; why is a Muslim not posting it and calling for others to raise their voices in condemnation? Is it because, as I believe, that you cannot bring yourself to criticise such acts? Is it not the case that Islam teaches (or at least encourages) that Muslims must support other Muslims (and silence is support) simply because they are Muslim and the act was perpetrated against non-Muslims?

'The Muslim is the brother of Muslim he neither oppresses him, nor does he fail him.." (Muslim).

"Whoever protects the honour of his brother, Allah will protect his face from hell on the Day of Judgment." (Ahmad and Tirmidhi).

"Help your brother whether he is the oppressor or the oppressed" [Bukhari, Muslim]

your logic is absurd. there are over 1 billion people calling themselves Muslim, many, such as Shii'a, who are severely misguided and whose beliefs i do not share.

WHEN YOU speak out against EVERY ACT of misguidance done by non-Muslims, i will reconsider your position.

and BEFORE you blame Muslims for crimes, make sure the crimes were actually done by Muslims. don't expect me to believe all the malarkey put out by western media.

peace

 

[GuestFellow]

First, my post presumes that Muslims, particularly Muslims living in the west, want their non Muslim neighbours to believe that they want peace and that they condemn unequivocaly acts of terrorism.

I used to care but not anymore. If people think I support these terroristic attacks, then that is their problem, not mine.

And I ask the question (and it has been asked many times my many others) why don’t you step forward and shout it out.

Personally, I'm a very shy person. I'm not going to on on the streets and protest, I'm not that type of person. :embarrass Plus, I really haven't got time to condemn these terrorist attacks in public, I've got enough problems to deal with like exams.

Some of you respond with the question why should you have to do that particularly when Muslims are being killed by western soldiers?

There are a few western Muslim soldiers, thought I should point that out.

That sort of response is (IMHO) tacit support and as my posts suggests an inability to condemn the acts of another Musim simply because he is Muslim.

If a Muslim does something bad, then I will condemn it. Whether you believe me or not, I'll leave that up to you.

And, what about the non Muslim soliders who died in Yugoslavia fighting to protect the Muslims there, why is there never any mention of them?

No idea (seriously, I don't know everything).

It is a fact that there are several Muslim countries where Muslims are routinely killed simply for following another religion and this is happening more and more frequently.

Source?

Does it come down to this – what is more important to you; what your neighbour thinks of you or what your Muslim brother thinks of you?

What Allah thinks of me really...humans are hard to please.

I am British and I am sure that the majority of my fellow citizens believe that the majority of British Muslims want a peaceful, ‘good neighbour’ co-existence.

If that is the case, then...

A question that constantly arises is where are the voices of those Muslims condemning the atrocities of those who murder in the name of Islam?

Why do you ask Muslims to publicly condemn these attacks?

why am I, a non-Muslim, posting this thread;

I really don't know.

why is a Muslim not posting it and calling for others to raise their voices in condemnation?

I can't speak for other Muslims but I already posted a topic in the world section which is being moderated...

Is it because, as I believe, that you cannot bring yourself to criticise such acts?

No we can criticise other Muslims who do bad things.

opcorn:

^ Wants some popcorn? Really nice, butter flavour. :statisfie

 

[Ansariyah]

Do all westerners come out and condemn the "coalition forces" when they commit one of their acts of terrorism? Many of them openly support it.

People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

 

[Zafran]

Actually, I take Thinker's point. I think it is really important to speak out against such atrocities - as publically as possible and whenever we hear about them.
How else will other people learn and understand how we feel about such things and that we don't condone them?
How else will misinformed non-Muslims learn that most Muslims do not condone such acts?

Perhaps there is a problem with the media being more likely to report terrorist attacks against non-Muslims than against Muslims, but I always try to speak out against ALL kind of terrorism against ALL people!

Of course Muslims matter, Zafran! All people do!
Nobody's innocent blood should be spilled - ever!!

People pick and choose who they want to condenm and who they dont looking at Thinker I'm sure if another bomb blast goes off in pakistan he wont care. More people have died in that region by terrorism then anywhere else - but does he care nope.

He forget to write that thread but this one has to be first.

 

[Zafran]

If tomorrow some lunatic kills a Muslim in Bradford simply because he is Muslim, I will condemn it absolutely, unequivocally and unconditionally. I won’t be saying what about the Muslim terror attack on x,y,z – my condemnation will be unconditional. And I suspect you would expect it to be and screaming fro a rooftop if it were otherwise and I suspect that you expect that the police would be successful in finding and convicting the perpetrator.

Why is it that when these attacks happen in a Muslim country I suspect that the perpetrator will not be caught and punished; is that because the police and public have no enthusiasm for solving such crimes?

Muslims dying dont scream anymore - they are dead - but what do you care- you rather dream about a bomblast in Bradford (which is highkly rare) camapred to a bomb blast in Afghainstan, Iraq or pakistan (where its highly likely)

maybe its because Afghanistan was a country of civil war and the invasion of Iraq made a negative impact on the police in that country - and maybe pakistan is border line civil war due to pakistanis fighting frontline "the war on terror".

By the way your condemnation means nothing - its like you or me condeming rape - is that going to stop rape in the future?

I'll ask again - where were your threads when bomb blasts were going off in Iraq, Afghanistan and pakistan - we're you asleep then??

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

First, my post presumes that Muslims, particularly Muslims living in the west, want their non Muslim neighbours to believe that they want peace and that they condemn unequivocaly acts of terrorism. And I ask the question (and it has been asked many times my many others) why don’t you step forward and shout it out.

the obvious answer to that would be because it isnt true to begin with.

 

[Thinker]

I think the general tenor of the posts here prove my point; if put on the spot and asked about a particular atrocity you will condemn it but conditionally e.g. “yes but what about x, y z”. I am not sure why that is, whether it is Islam or the culture of Muslims but when presented with such an incident instead of condemning it you respond as if the question is an attack on Islam or Muslim (culture). See the vitriolic responses here to me personally simply because I asked the question.

You ask - what about the drone attacks in Pakistan – that situation is absolutely not comparable. You state - the atrocity wasn’t committed by a Muslim it was done by the the Jews/CIA – come on, that smacks of desperation; even you don’t really believe that.

Why doesn’t this forum have a section solely devoted to condemnation of acts committed by Islamists which are ‘un-Islamic,’ which bring the name and peaceful nature of Islam into disrepute? As soon as such an act happens a one line post condemning it would stop accusations of tacit support and would show a strong indication that Muslims are ready to step forward and be the first to condemn these acts. That won’t happen (but please prove me wrong). It won’t happened because there would be riots on here as you tore yourselves apart with some of you arguing that x, y and z were not terrorist attacks or that (as I have stated) Muslims should not criticise the acts of other Muslims.

Sad, very sad!

 

[GuestFellow]

I think the general tenor of the posts here prove my point;

Specifically point them out.

I think your views are inconsistent...

I am British and I am sure that the majority of my fellow citizens believe that the majority of British Muslims want a peaceful, ‘good neighbour’ co-existence.

If that is the case, then...

A question that constantly arises is where are the voices of those Muslims condemning the atrocities of those who murder in the name of Islam?

Why do you ask Muslims to publicly condemn these attacks?

if put on the spot and asked about a particular atrocity you will condemn it but conditionally e.g. “yes but what about x, y z”.

Muslims have always been put on the spot and asked to condemn. All Muslims on this forum condemn bad things that Muslims do. Some Muslims have publicly condemned the attacks, however I suspect you are ignoring them or not convinced.

Muslims are simply curious to hear your views about the horrible things America and Britain had done. May be you support these wars and the killings of innocent civilians, worse, you might even support the torture techniques used against suspects.

See the vitriolic responses here to me personally simply because I asked the question.

They have been asked so many times.

Why doesn’t this forum have a section solely devoted to condemnation of acts committed by Islamists which are ‘un-Islamic,’ which bring the name and peaceful nature of Islam into disrepute?

What is an Islamist? Why are you playing and changing with words? ^o)

Anyway, I never thought of that idea. Good suggestion though.

 

[Dagless]

I think the general tenor of the posts here prove my point; if put on the spot and asked about a particular atrocity you will condemn it but conditionally e.g. “yes but what about x, y z”. I am not sure why that is, whether it is Islam or the culture of Muslims but when presented with such an incident instead of condemning it you respond as if the question is an attack on Islam or Muslim (culture). See the vitriolic responses here to me personally simply because I asked the question.

Any reasonable person would ask the same thing. Why should you ask someone to do something which you yourself (and most people) do not do. At best it's just something which is not viable, and at worst it makes you look hypocritical.

You ask - what about the drone attacks in Pakistan – that situation is absolutely not comparable.

Why are the drone attacks not comparable?

Why doesn’t this forum have a section solely devoted to condemnation of acts committed by Islamists which are ‘un-Islamic,’ which bring the name and peaceful nature of Islam into disrepute? As soon as such an act happens a one line post condemning it would stop accusations of tacit support and would show a strong indication that Muslims are ready to step forward and be the first to condemn these acts. That won’t happen (but please prove me wrong). It won’t happened because there would be riots on here as you tore yourselves apart with some of you arguing that x, y and z were not terrorist attacks or that (as I have stated) Muslims should not criticise the acts of other Muslims.

Maybe there should be sections on every forum for every social, religious, ethnic, etc. group where people can condemn 2 things which are very loosely related. American forums condemning drone attacks. Christians against littering. Cricket players condemn animal cruelty.

 

[Watcher888]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Why do American's not comdemn the Iraq/Afghan invasion? Thousands of innocents have died since the invasion, which was illegal, no weapons of mass destruction found or anything. Should I now go to a America army forum and make a thread about it? Or maybe I should go on Youtube or Google and do my research before comming to such conclusions.

Look at the Gaza strip bombings, the American media showed NONE of the horrible acts the Zionists did, why because they are their allies? So why would they show innocent Iraqi's getting killed then? So NOW, why should they show Peaceful Muslims comdemning such acts and speaking up?

The Mosques I go to are great, they don't let groups come together and have secret meetings in the corner of the room without inquiring about the subject. There's always Muslims that are doing their bit to bring the real peaceful message of Islam out, but YOU won't let them, so now YOUR complaining about them? And it doesn't help when the Media is constantly throwing all this false and negative propoganda at us either, which completly distorts the public view of what Islam is and they automatically don't want to listen to what we have to say.

You need to understand that the problem isn't from our end it's from yours, you need to do more yourself otherwise our efforts are wasted.

Therefore, please tell us which media outlets you think are reliable and trustworthy!

And do you publicly here, 'denounce' the 9/11 attacks and al muhajiroun who praised and support the 'magnificent 19'?

 

[Watcher888]

Specifically point them out.

I think your views are inconsistent...



If that is the case, then...



Why do you ask Muslims to publicly condemn these attacks?



Muslims have always been put on the spot and asked to condemn. All Muslims on this forum condemn bad things that Muslims do. Some Muslims have publicly condemned the attacks, however I suspect you are ignoring them or not convinced.

Muslims are simply curious to hear your views about the horrible things America and Britain had done. May be you support these wars and the killings of innocent civilians, worse, you might even support the torture techniques used against suspects.



They have been asked so many times.



What is an Islamist? Why are you playing and changing with words? ^o)

Anyway, I never thought of that idea. Good suggestion though.

The unbelieving people of the world, are currently 'lost'!
The things that happen in war, whether there is any good reason for war or not!
Have been going on since wars started!
During WW2 germany deliberately bombed cities and towns in the 'Blitz', to kill civillians and destroy infrastructure.
So as to soften up the U.K. before the planned invasion!
And have you not heard of the gestapo and it's torture methods?
And what about saddam's despotic regime!

What is an Islamist? Why are you playing and changing with words? ^o)

This is where you get disingenious!
ilsamist's are those claiming to be acting for islam and muslims in the political islamic cause of taking over and ruling the world for allah!
To get the whole world 'submitted' to allah!
If you as a muslim wish to 'denounce' islamist's and their professed aims.
Please do so!