Silence = Support

[glo]

This thread is making me deeply sad.

Instead of people standing together and publically declaring their disgust for atrocities which take innocent life - regardless of race, gender or religion (!), many people seem to be too busy with finding excuses or pointing their finger at somebody else.

What's with this 'Atrocities-committed-in-the-name-of-MY-religion-aren't-as-bad-as-the-ones-committed-in-the-name-of-YOUR-religion'?
Surely they are all wrong! :heated:

How can be build a peaceful world, if people aren't willing to take the first step and speak out, instead of expecting 'the other side' to do so first? imsad

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Thinkers question to me is an example of a 'loaded question'. You could say its like replying to the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?".

For illumination

Loaded question

A loaded question may be asked to trick the respondent into admitting something that the questioner believes to be true, and which may in fact be true. So the previous question is "loaded," whether or not the respondent has actually beaten his wife.

This fallacy can be confused with begging the question, which offers a premise no more plausible than, and often just a restatement of, the conclusion.

The term "loaded question" is sometimes used to refer to loaded language that is phrased as a question. This type of question does not necessarily contain a fallacious presupposition, but rather this usage refers to the question having an unspoken and often emotive implication. For example, "Are you a murderer?" would be such a loaded question, as "murder" has a very negative connotation. Such a question may be asked merely to harass or upset the respondent with no intention of listening to their reply, or asked with the full expectation that the respondent will predictably deny it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

Be careful not to take the bait. . . . . .

 

[GuestFellow]

The unbelieving people of the world, are currently 'lost'!
The things that happen in war, whether there is any good reason for war or not!
Have been going on since wars started!
During WW2 germany deliberately bombed cities and towns in the 'Blitz', to kill civillians and destroy infrastructure.
So as to soften up the U.K. before the planned invasion!
And have you not heard of the gestapo and it's torture methods?
And what about saddam's despotic regime!

Ah wut?

This is where you get disingenious!

Ugh?

ilsamist's are those claiming to be acting for islam and muslims in the political islamic cause of taking over and ruling the world for allah!
To get the whole world 'submitted' to allah!
If you as a muslim wish to 'denounce' islamist's and their professed aims.
Please do so!

You sound hysterical.

 

[Dagless]

This thread is making me deeply sad.

Instead of people standing together and publically declaring their disgust for atrocities which take innocent life - regardless of race, gender or religion (!), many people seem to be too busy with finding excuses or pointing their finger at somebody else.

What's with this 'Atrocities-committed-in-the-name-of-MY-religion-aren't-as-bad-as-the-ones-committed-in-the-name-of-YOUR-religion'?
Surely they are all wrong! :heated:

How can be build a peaceful world, if people aren't willing to take the first step and speak out, instead of expecting 'the other side' to do so first? imsad

Read the original post. It is not so much people standing together in disgust; it's the pretentious (if hypocritical) expectation that people MUST express their disgust immediately and publicly, or they are obviously overjoyed.

 

[Zafran]

You ask - what about the drone attacks in Pakistan – that situation is absolutely not comparable. You state - the atrocity wasn’t committed by a Muslim it was done by the the Jews/CIA – come on, that smacks of desperation; even you don’t really believe that.

I was talking about bomb blasts in pakistan but as you dont realy care what actaully happens to muslims around the world - Its only when its non muslims thats when these threads have to be made - you we'rent here when there bomblasts in Iraq and pakistan we're happening, There blood means nothing to you.

How are not drone bombs not camparable to sucide bombing? they both have killed innocent people - yet you find it hard to condem the drone attacks? whats all that about? Is that because its muslim blood?

 

[Woodrow]

I think the general tenor of the posts here prove my point; if put on the spot and asked about a particular atrocity you will condemn it but conditionally e.g. “yes but what about x, y z”. I am not sure why that is, whether it is Islam or the culture of Muslims but when presented with such an incident instead of condemning it you respond as if the question is an attack on Islam or Muslim (culture). See the vitriolic responses here to me personally simply because I asked the question.

You ask - what about the drone attacks in Pakistan – that situation is absolutely not comparable. You state - the atrocity wasn’t committed by a Muslim it was done by the the Jews/CIA – come on, that smacks of desperation; even you don’t really believe that.

Why doesn’t this forum have a section solely devoted to condemnation of acts committed by Islamists which are ‘un-Islamic,’ which bring the name and peaceful nature of Islam into disrepute? As soon as such an act happens a one line post condemning it would stop accusations of tacit support and would show a strong indication that Muslims are ready to step forward and be the first to condemn these acts. That won’t happen (but please prove me wrong). It won’t happened because there would be riots on here as you tore yourselves apart with some of you arguing that x, y and z were not terrorist attacks or that (as I have stated) Muslims should not criticise the acts of other Muslims.

Sad, very sad!

You may not have noticed but at least some of us who have replied are reverts in the USA and have no or very limited communications with other Muslims on a face-to-Face basis. We often are confused as to how to reply and can be often be with little knowledge of any terrorist attacks outside the USA. to protest something, you need to know of it. Also we want to be certain we have the facts first.

 

[جوري]

Instead of people standing together and publically declaring their disgust for atrocities which take innocent life - regardless of race, gender or religion (!), many people seem to be too busy with finding excuses or pointing their finger at somebody else.

That is right.. why should people take credit for a crime well orchestrated to spread fire all over the middle east for nothing ultimately but to undermine Islam and serve Israeli interest?
So many gullible or otherwise extremely hateful people in the west are working toward one goal and are really benefiting from this. This isn't the first time this has happened in Egypt.. Ever heard of the LAVON AFFAIR?

here you go.. get smartned up along with your fellows here.

Just because westerners are under-educated oafs doesn't mean the rest of us have to jump on that chawbacon band wagon!

 

[Thinker]

Why are the drone attacks not comparable?

The drone attacks are targeting terrorist i.e. the Americans are trying to kill a person or persons that they believe has or is about to try and kill them or some other (softer) target. Of course the drone is not a sniper rifle and much as I am sure they try to be accurate and I am sure they want to kill only the targets it is possible that there will be what is called ‘collateral damage.’ Do I condemn these actions – I certainly most sincerely regret any pain loss or suffering caused to any innocent person. My problem is this – those people, after training, are going try and kill me and my family. I could be on the tube train or on a plane one day and one of those people trained in Pakistan could set off his bomb and kill me. I expect my government to do all they can to protect me from that attack. One of the tactics they adopt is to send a drone to kill them before they come and kill me (and you). If I condemn that act I must suggest an alternative – what would that be?

The Christians killed in Egypt were killed because they were Christians. There was no suggestion that they were making bombs or preparing to attack Muslims (or anybody), they weren’t collateral damage accidentally killed in an attempt to take out some maniac who was going to blow up your family.

That’s the difference but I am surprised that wasn’t obvious!

 

[جوري]

The drone attacks are targeting terrorist

Who are these alleged 'terrorists' do they have a name or all that matters is that the U.S labels them so?

i.e. the Americans are trying to kill a person or persons that they believe has or is about to try and kill them or some other (softer) target.

The operative word here is 'believe' frankly a belief isn't a logical reason to take a life!

Of course the drone is not a sniper rifle and much as I am sure they try to be accurate and I am sure they want to kill only the targets it is possible that there will be what is called ‘collateral damage.’

Of course.. collateral damage.. try to use the reverse logic then when begging for condemnation.. One country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter!

Do I condemn these actions – I certainly most sincerely regret any pain loss or suffering caused to any innocent person.

How does that regret take form? I haven't see you doing anything to halt civilian casualties or are you simply giving lip service?

My problem is this – those people, after training, are going try and kill me and my family.

You seem a little paranoid and so your solution is, let's kill them before they think of killing us in the name of freedom of course when you do it it isn't terrorism is it?

I could be on the tube train or on a plane one day and one of those people trained in Pakistan could set off his bomb and kill me. I expect my government to do all they can to protect me from that attack. One of the tactics they adopt is to send a drone to kill them before they come and kill me (and you). If I condemn that act I must suggest an alternative – what would that be?

The alternative is to look into your country's history and intention.. casualties of war can happen locally as well.

The Christians killed in Egypt were killed because they were Christians. There was no suggestion that they were making bombs or preparing to attack Muslims (or anybody), they weren’t collateral damage accidentally killed in an attempt to take out some maniac who was going to blow up your family.

They were killed to instigate a civil war.. it has been brewing a while.. have you ever thought why now.. why not 1500 years ago? why not 500 years ago.. but right now?

That’s the difference but I am surprised that wasn’t obvious!

Perhaps when you fully evolve you won't be always so surprised by common sense!

all the best

 

[Muezzin]

I speak for myself and a I'm sure a great number of others on this site and off, Muslim or non-Muslim.

I unequivocally condemn all attacks or acts of violence, comitted by individuals or organisations, which deliberately target or otherwise jeapordise civilians' lives.

This thread reminds me of the time a group of extremists gathered outside one of the local mosques to distribute literature encouraging violence. In the short amount of time it took for people to figure out who this group was, the group was promptly thrown off the property. Some might call this the Muslim community policing itself. It did not make the news. I do not know if it therefore equates to silence. I do not know that silence therefore equates to support.

This thread also reminds me of something Ghandi said: 'What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?'

Since this particular thread seems to have run its course and people no longer seem to be discussing the subjects raised in the first post, I am going to close it. However, if you believe I am wrong, please send myself or another mod a private message, and the thread can be re-opened.